[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Yes, I have a manual, it's a 2008 335, stock other than the Procede (plus CDV delete), on 91 octane. Only have 20,000 miles on the car. I've always run map 1 without any changes to the defaults. I'm on the 6-14 maps right now.

IIRC, one/two injectors got done, plus a new HPFP, but no software, as that was done a while back when they rolled out that new software that primed the pump first.

It's definitely bog I'm feeling, as when I do fast 2-3 shifts on the highway at WOT, the first half a second after shift the car dies, before it picks up power. Sounds like I do have a different issue than Ilma (Shiv thought so too, he said he was having a transmission adaptation issue).

You need to look at CAN DBW throttle to see if it's lagging behind Throttle (pedal). If it is, you have the traditional 6MT bog which would be surprising since that was solved a long time ago. If it looks fine, then something else is causing your bog. If you have a 6MT, you don't have a transmission adaptation issue. That can only possibly apply to 6ATs.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Ilma, keep watching over your datalogs though...things sometimes do come back when you think they've been solved

Or u can just monitor timing through those gauges

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Yes, I have a manual, it's a 2008 335, stock other than the Procede (plus CDV delete), on 91 octane. Only have 20,000 miles on the car. I've always run map 1 without any changes to the defaults. I'm on the 6-14 maps right now.

IIRC, one/two injectors got done, plus a new HPFP, but no software, as that was done a while back when they rolled out that new software that primed the pump first.

It's definitely bog I'm feeling, as when I do fast 2-3 shifts on the highway at WOT, the first half a second after shift the car dies, before it picks up power. Sounds like I do have a different issue than Ilma (Shiv thought so too, he said he was having a transmission adaptation issue).

From experience, I would say you're just a little too aggressive in boost with 91oct. Drop this to 12 and see what happens. For me it's very difficult to eliminate the bog completely in the summer time. Winter, no prob. After the FMIC, there is some improvement. I think it's all timing related. Shifting a little slower seems to help also.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Ilma, keep watching over your datalogs though...things sometimes do come back when you think they've been solved

LOL.....how true.

It's come back a bit.....but far less often.

Before enleaning out the A/F ratio and improving the trims, my timing would drop 80% of the time I datalogged.

It was really depressing.

But now with a revised fueling map, the fuel trim does not swing as much post shift and I am seeing good timing curves on 3 out of 4 datalogs....which is much improved.

In my case there does seem to be a direct correlation between large A/F ratio swings post-shift, and a reaction by the DME to pull timing.

As Shiv mentions....the best thing people can do with the latest Procede software is to log your fuel trims and A/F ratios.

Whenever there is a change in your A/F ratios, the injectors are going to compensate to bring the A/F ratio back to target.

In my case, by enleaning the A/F ratio a little bit, the injectors seem to hit target sooner and there is less overshoot into the rich zone and less overall swing in the ratio.

Working much better....but still there a little bit.

Just wondering if spraying meth is going to help the injectors hit target more accurately since you are now introducing a secondary fuel source to help out......

[themyst]

When I had a manual, up to 15-16 psi I didn't bog. The problems started under real high boost, both jb3 and Procede back then.

But that's info for another thread, this one is for 6at.

[Ilma]

Oh.....before I forget.

My problem happens only on the upshift into 4th.

I logged a downshift into 4th from 5th....taking my time to ease in the throttle and the A/F ratio was rock steady as was the timing curve.

Seems like a lot changes with a sudden gear change - things get kind of destabilized.....

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Oh.....before I forget.

My problem happens only on the upshift into 4th.

I logged a downshift into 4th from 5th....taking my time to ease in the throttle and the A/F ratio was rock steady as was the timing curve.

Seems like a lot changes with a sudden gear change - things get kind of destabilized.....

And this is on pump gas or race gas?

[themyst]

Question, can OL fuel mapping be adjusted per gear? In my application, the timing flatline is the worst on the 3-4 as well.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Oh.....before I forget.

My problem happens only on the upshift into 4th.

I logged a downshift into 4th from 5th....taking my time to ease in the throttle and the A/F ratio was rock steady as was the timing curve.

Seems like a lot changes with a sudden gear change - things get kind of destabilized.....

Timing in the gear the run starts in is fine, the problem is only post-shift. I'll start a run in 4th gear and timing is what it should be.

Btw the dme doesn't only cut timing when there is a rich condition, it will do the same on a lean condition as well. The problem is that window is so damn small on the post-recall software.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And this is on pump gas or race gas?

Blend of the two.......94 Sunoco pump and a few litres of 110 race gas. Average is around 98 octane.

Which is why meth is on the horizon for me - much cheaper to run....lol.

When I downshift into 4th from 5th, the timing curve sits pretty much flat at 10 degrees or so for the duration of the pull.

But I want to nip this timing issue down. Like I said before, there is no point in spraying meth if the DME is going to pull timing on me - unless spraying meth is going to help stabilize the AF swings.

I mean I really want to get meth!

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by themyst

Timing in the gear the run starts in is fine, the problem is only post-shift. I'll start a run in 4th gear and timing is what it should be.

Btw the dme doesn't only cut timing when there is a rich condition, it will do the same on a lean condition as well. The problem is that window is so damn small on the post-recall software.

Yes.....perhaps I was overgeneralizing about the problem being too rich of a ratio.

It's seems to be the large swing in the AF ratio just after a shift into 4th when everything is going crazy and trying to get back to target.

In the logs where AF ratio is fairly stable, I get no issues. Swings of 2-3 points though will invoke it most of the time.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Yes.....perhaps I was overgeneralizing about the problem being too rich of a ratio.

It's seems to be the large swing in the AF ratio just after a shift into 4th when everything is going crazy and trying to get back to target.

In the logs where AF ratio is fairly stable, I get no issues. Swings of 2-3 points though will invoke it most of the time.

Why don't you lean out the AFR a touch more in that post-shift area of 5000-5500 RPM?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by themyst

Why don't you lean out the AFR a touch more in that post-shift area of 5000-5500 RPM?

Funny you should bring this up Myst!

I think I may have nailed the real underlying problem for the A/F fluctuations post shift and the resulting timing dip.

I noticed a bit of oil around the worm clamp on the charge pipe at the post intercooler connection.....so I checked it out.

It was loose by about 6 turns

I know that's an area that is prone to leaks so I always make sure it's pretty tight on a regular basis.

So anyways....I tightened it up and wondered how it got so loose.

Hmmmmmmm.....

Dealer recall = they replaced the fuel pump = they probably removed the charge pipe to get to it = you know where this is going

Just came back from doing a datalog and my A/F ratio instability is completely gone and the timing is at absolute maximum.

So I am thinking a bit of a boost leak was probably enough to send the fuel ratios oscillating back and forth after the shift, and the DME freaked out.

Here is tonights datalog.....look at how stable the A/F ratio is post shift now and how about that timing too!.

[themyst]

Like dzenno said, it could very well be that one log is a "good" log. If you can consistently reproduce that timing advance post-shift run after run, then yes it looks like you've got a winner

What do those numbers under CAN Fuel Trim mean? And why is one bank significantly different from the other? I've been out of the loop on Procede stuff so forgive my ignorance.

[OpenFlash]

Awesome Ilma

[themyst]

Shiv, when is timing advance coming out, or is that already possible on the latest custom software?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Awesome Ilma

Actually the logs have been pretty good ever since you sent me the revised map.

But things still weren't quite as perfect as before I went to the dealer.

Leaning out the AF ratio pointed me in the right direction of improvement....but the light bulb went off when I saw a bit of oil on the chargepipe connection today.

It seems to make a lot of sense now

And by being hands on with the newest procede software, I certainly learned a lot more.

If the logs stay consistent then you can expect a meth order from me real soon

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by themyst

Like dzenno said, it could very well be that one log is a "good" log. If you can consistently reproduce that timing advance post-shift run after run, then yes it looks like you've got a winner

What do those numbers under CAN Fuel Trim mean? And why is one bank significantly different from the other? I've been out of the loop on Procede stuff so forgive my ignorance.

the CAN fuel trims are how hard the injectors are working to meet the AF target.

I think Shiv will be elaborating on this when he posts his tuning guide.

Ballpark numbers are that trims max out at plus or minus 34% and should settle down to 10-15% positive trim.

Sustained Positive trim means you are lean and injectors are spraying, while sustained negative trims mean you are rich and injectors are backing off.

Very useful stuff.

I was wondering why my two banks are about 5% apart myself.....but unfortunately I don't have the answer. I would guess that not all injectors are spraying the same volume, hence different trims/duty cycles?

But hey.....I am just happy to get to this point thus far.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

the CAN fuel trims are how hard the injectors are working to meet the AF target.

I think Shiv will be elaborating on this when he posts his tuning guide.

Ballpark numbers are that trims max out at plus or minus 34% and should settle down to 10-15% positive trim.

Sustained Positive trim means you are lean and injectors are spraying, while sustained negative trims mean you are rich and injectors are backing off.

Very useful stuff.

Yes exactly. Fuel trims have a pretty big effect on drivability/engine response as well. Since the closed loop fuel control system reacts very quickly, we can get away with murder when it comes to things like methanol injection. But as everyone will so, dialing your fuel map in (map2/meth) to account for the methanol spray so that consistent fuel trims are retained, will make a big improvement in performance. Anyone who says that a basic meth kit (pressure activated, no changes to open loop fuel mapping) is good enough has clearly not experienced a good methanol tune.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I was wondering why my two banks are about 5% apart myself.....but unfortunately I don't have the answer. I would guess that not all injectors are spraying the same volume, hence different trims/duty cycles?

5% difference is nothing. My fuel trims were 20% apart until I replaced all my spark plugs recently. Now they are back to being within 5%. Some bank1/bank2 spread is normal since there will always been some mechanical/hardware variance between cylinders/banks. Also, I'm quite sure that x% fuel trim does not translate to x% of overall fuel. In other words, if fuel trims were -50%, actual fuel consumption would not be cut in half.

Shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

Shiv, when is timing advance coming out, or is that already possible on the latest custom software?

Timing advance is already available with the current user tuning software/maps/firmware. Although I don't recommend using it on Rev.2 hardware. Need a Rev2.5 or Rev3 to make it work as it intended.

Shiv

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Timing advance is already available with the current user tuning software/maps/firmware. Although I don't recommend using it on Rev.2 hardware. Need a Rev2.5 or Rev3 to make it work as it intended.

Shiv

thanks for the info. ETA on rev 2.5 upgrades and/or DIY?