[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The JB3/JB4 has always used the DME adaptive system to set advance which generally works quite well. It's been used on 7500+ cars over the past four years for tens or hundreds of millions of combined customer driven miles. In some cases if your fuel is particularly bad or if you are trying to tune a large turbo or nitrous car it is beneficial to also use CPS offsetting to cap the maximum advance set points. For that you would get the fully user adjustable JB4 CPS module for $85. It also includes a speed limit defeat.

Mike

awhile ago this would be the opposite of what BMS would say. We have timing control blah blah blah. Come to find out they were misleading their clients quite badly.


quite the marketing and copying company


however, their tune seems to work, or I should say BMW's ECU works.

just not what I would ever put in my car.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Ah I see so when we're logging and see timing drops it's not necessarily knock as it's only logging cylinder one, but with the Cobb you're able to see timing across all cylinders so you can distinguish between knock and a minor correction. Good stuff I cant wait for my AP to arrive.

It's on the way

[OpenFlash]

Not the same. Not even close.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by themyst

Basically if timing drops across multiple cylinders at the same time that is possible knock but drops on individual cylinders are merely corrections.

Corrections?

What are they correcting.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Translation: JB3/4 does not adjust the timing at all and it lets the DME learn by detecting knock conditions.

Where is Clap when you need him?

Thank you for your contribution.

Lol jk

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

but their history has made it so easy

I know you cant respond to that.

hope all is going well Jeff

[luv135i]

Originally Posted by theriz

Translation: JB4 > Procede.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Sniz

but their history has made it so easy

I know you cant respond to that.

hope all is going well Jeff

Doing very well thanks.

[Q4P]

I am not sure why people keep bringing this up over and over again. I'll be the elephant in the room here and state the obvious. I agree that the Procede is by far the most advanced tune out there and it controls everything including timing but that is something that you pay for and pay dearly for (i.e. double the price of a JB4). I own a Procede because I happen to like the customer service and when I initially bought a Procede for another of my cars it was the only product available so I decided to stick with it.

The question that I would like to ask is how many people have blown their engines or had serious engines issues because of the JB's lack of timing or the Procede's inclusion of it. The answer is that no one has (at least no one that can prove it), there are 500+ WHP cars running on JB and there are 500+ WHP cars running on the Procede. Neither of them seem to have blown anyones engines due to a problem with a tune but rather abuse, lack of knowledge of the user or disabling of numerous safeties.

People say this tune rides the knock sensor here and there but the reality is that the stock BMW DME does so very well in preventing knocks. When people like Hotrod run massive shots of nitrous and don't seem to experience knocks or engine problems with the JB, I doubt any user on the street will (at least that hasn't been the case after thousands of them sold).

You can beat a dead horse but the fact is that the horse is dead and the decision as to which tune to choose has to be made by each and every individual, I don't believe you can go wrong with either choice. At least I know that no one can disprove this with cold hard facts.

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I am not sure why people keep bringing this up over and over again. I'll be the elephant in the room here and state the obvious. I agree that the Procede is by far the most advanced tune out there and it controls everything including timing but that is something that you pay for and pay dearly for (i.e. double the price of a JB4). I own a Procede because I happen to like the customer service and when I initially bought a Procede for another of my cars it was the only product available so I decided to stick with it.

The question that I would like to ask is how many people have blown their engines or had serious engines issues because of the JB's lack of timing or the Procede's inclusion of it. The answer is that no one has (at least no one that can prove it), there are 500+ WHP cars running on JB and there are 500+ WHP cars running on the Procede. Neither of them seem to have blown anyones engines due to a problem with a tune but rather abuse, lack of knowledge of the user or disabling of numerous safeties.

People say this tune rides the knock sensor here and there but the reality is that the stock BMW DME does so very well in preventing knocks. When people like Hotrod run massive shots of nitrous and don't seem to experience knocks or engine problems with the JB, I doubt any user on the street will (at least that hasn't been the case after thousands of them sold).

You can beat a dead horse but the fact is that the horse is dead and the decision as to which tune to choose has to be made by each and every individual, I don't believe you can go wrong with either choice. At least I know that no one can disprove this with cold hard facts.

I wouldnt say your wrong but your not looking at the whole picture. Let me just use one word that means a lot in a tune, drivability. You are right this aspect cannot be proven with facts or on paper, only on the street. Another word that comes to mind is consistency. A car on the verge of knocking will day in and day out have inconsistent performance as the vehicle constantly fights itself to find a happy medium. Does it work, yes. Are there better options, yes.

[usc335]

To answer your question, no the JB4 does NOT control timing like the Procede. Like all proper tunes, timing control is integrated with the whole tune from start to finish. The JB4, after years claiming that timing control isn't necessary, this thread sticky (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493245) exposed one of the many flaws of JB tunes. So, in an attempt to do damage control, they came out with an "add on" CPS module. When BMS posted up results using their new CPS module, they really embarrassed themselves as their whole strategy for timing control was wrong -- something even a novice could figure out. If you don't believe me, just do a search.

So now, BMS says they have timing control which makes them equal to the Procede. Far from it. Timing control needs to be fully integrated with the tune, not an after thought. Plus, BMS's timing control is very crude compared to what the Procede does. The JB4 uses a "set" offset, whereas the Procede dynamically changes the timing offset based on a variety of inputs, not a constant offset.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

I wouldnt say your wrong but your not looking at the whole picture. Let me just use one word that means a lot in a tune, drivability. You are right this aspect cannot be proven with facts or on paper, only on the street. Another word that comes to mind is consistency. A car on the verge of knocking will day in and day out have inconsistent performance as the vehicle constantly fights itself to find a happy medium. Does it work, yes. Are there better options, yes.

I agree with you 100% but the cold hard facts remain. The issue of "safety" of one tune as compared to another is far exaggerated on this forum. This platform is a little different than others (the DME is far advanced when compared to other) and for what it's worth it; "typical tuning practice aside", the car does not seem to have a problem with either tune "safety wise".

Originally Posted by usc335

To answer your question, no the JB4 does NOT control timing like the Procede. Like all proper tunes, timing control is integrated with the whole tune from start to finish. The JB4, after years claiming that timing control isn't necessary, this thread sticky (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493245) exposed one of the many flaws of JB tunes. So, in an attempt to do damage control, they came out with an "add on" CPS module. When BMS posted up results using their new CPS module, they really embarrassed themselves as their whole strategy for timing control was wrong -- something even a novice could figure out. If you don't believe me, just do a search.

So now, BMS says they have timing control which makes them equal to the Procede. Far from it. Timing control needs to be fully integrated with the tune, not an after thought. Plus, BMS's timing control is very crude compared to what the Procede does. The JB4 uses a "set" offset, whereas the Procede dynamically changes the timing offset based on a variety of inputs, not a constant offset.

I agree with what you just said but consider that the guy who runs 500+ WHP with nitrous on his car does not use the CPS module, this should be evidence enough for everyone (especially for people running 150 WHP less).

[PlutoniumTans]

I owned both and driveability procede>jb4 no questions asked, but procede had so many ANNOYING AS HELL little issues that I had to get rid of it. If you just got the car, do the smart thing and get GIAC, Cobb is new so we'll have to wait and see how it does, I'm going with cobb just because I soon will get rid of the car and I want to make my money back

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I agree with you 100% but the cold hard facts remain. The issue of "safety" of one tune as compared to another is far exaggerated on this forum. This platform is a little different than others (the DME is far advanced when compared to other) and for what it's worth it; "typical tuning practice aside", the car does not seem to have a problem with either tune "safety wise".

The cost of tunes is so inexpensive even on the high end for this platform, there is really no reason to compromise in my honest opinion. I feel a lot of people are new to the modding game here and shopping for the fastest HP/Dollar might not be the best approach to tuning. All this talking just starts the inevitable tuner war so this will be my last post here hopefully. There are a few chaps on here that have driven most of the tunes and the consensus I feel is obvious.

[FastBimmerN54]

Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans

I owned both and driveability procede>jb4 no questions asked, but procede had so many ANNOYING AS HELL little issues that I had to get rid of it. If you just got the car, do the smart thing and get GIAC, Cobb is new so we'll have to wait and see how it does, I'm going with cobb just because I soon will get rid of the car and I want to make my money back

Cobb Giac Procede, no particular order.

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

Cobb Giac Procede, no particular order.

jb4 did not give me 1 problem, neither did jb3 back then.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by FastBimmerN54

Cobb Giac Procede, no particular order.

Of these I would probably go with Procede. At the moment it is by far the most advanced. GIAC is a pain as far as installation, updates and there is no resale value. Cobb is a "potential tune" meaning they have the potential to be the good in the future (buy your tune for today not for one day - it's not an investment), right now there is nothing superior that it offers outside of ease of installation which is easy on the Procede anyways.

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

Of these I would probably go with Procede. At the moment it is by far the most advanced. GIAC is a pain as far as installation, updates and there is no resale value. Cobb is a "potential tune" meaning they have the potential to be the good in the future (buy your tune for today not for one day - it's not an investment), right now there is nothing superior that it offers outside of ease of installation which is easy on the Procede anyways.

Are we talking about TUNE or pain in the ass installation and little dumb features ? GIAC is superior to Procede on tuning side

[E90SoFlo]

THIS THREAD IS FAIL.

use the and don't start forum fights.

[thebigragu99]

If the knock is controlled by the factory dme then it fine ..Look at it like this ,how many evos run around with 600 whp or over relying on the factory ecu to dectect knock ..It worked fine for it so must be the same concept for are cars right??

[thebigragu99]

Originally Posted by E90SoFlo

THIS THREAD IS FAIL.

use the and don't start forum fights.

Thead started cause Terry told me it controls timing !!