[turb0mik3]

I'm just waiting for a fuel upgrade and then Fred from ER is going to build my setup with custom dyno tune. Should be faster than most others on the market. Shive, hurry up with that damn fuel system!!!

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by weeensunn

ASR's have upgraded turbine wheels and wastegates as well

No, only RBs have upgraded billet wastegates. You really want those if you want to avoid WG rattle down the road for sure.

When it comes to upgraded rather than clipped turbine wheels, three offerings come with fully upgraded wheels; RBs, ASRs and TD stg2. Others don't.

[rooringhusky]

Originally Posted by chris @ ar design

You can add us to the list!

Official release w/ dyno numbers coming soon!

Damn so many diff projects in the works...and now AR as well...would love more info on the AR turbos!!

This platform is about to take a turn to the darkside once a fueling solution is figured out...cant wait

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by rooringhusky

Damn so many diff projects in the works...and now AR as well...would love more info on the AR turbos!!

This platform is about to take a turn to the darkside once a fueling solution is figured out...cant wait

Fueling solution? Is there even an issue? The AFRs are on the rich side.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Fueling solution? Is there even an issue? The AFRs are on the rich side.

Well as of recently there seems to be more fuel available but in the past we thought the fuel limit was around 450WHP. Apparently there is more fuel but how much is still unsure. With no pump or injector upgrades there is a ceiling somewhere.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

No, only RBs have upgraded billet wastegates. You really want those if you want to avoid WG rattle down the road for sure.

When it comes to upgraded rather than clipped turbine wheels, three offerings come with fully upgraded wheels; RBs, ASRs and TD stg2. Others don't.

Just for the record, Turbo Dynamics also offer upgraded wastegates. From a US perspective, I believe the RB ones have the best value for money - even if there are some yet unresolved oil consumption problems with them, AFAIK.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Adil]

Originally Posted by chrisw335i

im waiting for shivs single turbos...that should be awesome!!

Sorry if i'm asking a rookie question but surely the twin turbo that n54 comes with stock is better than single turbo? Surely there would be more turbo lag with single turbo?

With regard to replacement/refurbished turbos i've heard good things about Turbo Dynamics in the UK.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Adil

Sorry if i'm asking a rookie question but surely the twin turbo that n54 comes with stock is better than single turbo? Surely there would be more turbo lag with single turbo?

Well, it depends on what your aim is.

If you want good driveability, more or less lag-free throttle response and not much hassle with extensive hardware modifications, then upgraded stock turbos are certainly the best solution. And they already make more then 500hp at the crank, so it's not as if they're underpowered.

However, if your aim is maximum power only - in particular in view of the 1/4 mile races that are so popular in the US - then a big single turbo is the better solution as it is not restricted by the small stock housings of the OEM turbos. However, different manifold and downpipe(s) are necessary, as well as a more sophisticated tuning solution in order to be able to control this setup.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Rob@RBTurbo]

The TD Turbos do offer a "fix", but I wouldnt call it an upgrade. Their fix is removing all of the old hardware, machining down the same shaft to true it up, and installing a new bushing that has a smaller ID to accomodate the freshly turned down original shaft. Everything is still the same materials (aside the bushing) and dimensions (aside from the turned down shaft which is less desirable as the shaft diameter really needs to be increased). If you send them 6mm wastegated turbos, you are returned 6mm wastegated turbos. This is not the same as completely replaced wastegates with billet premium wear matched materials with optimum dimensions; all converted to 8mm.

As for oil consumption: turbos are not bulletproof. Certain things or conditions can wipe them out quickly, regardless of manufacturer. There most certainly is a difference between "an isolated (or percieved prevalent) issue" and "an unresolved issue" of a product. If TD (or any manufacturer) sends out enough of them, I can guarantee you they too will have an issue arise here or there.

Last I checked RBs are less than 50% the cost of TD Stage 2, which is a rather substantial savings. I'd consider that more of a worldwide value for the money, not sure how only the US.

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Just for the record, Turbo Dynamics also offer upgraded wastegates. From a US perspective, I believe the RB ones have the best value for money - even if there are some yet unresolved oil consumption problems with them, AFAIK.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Adil]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Well, it depends on what your aim is.

If you want good driveability, more or less lag-free throttle response and not much hassle with extensive hardware modifications, then upgraded stock turbos are certainly the best solution. And they already make more then 500hp at the crank, so it's not as if they're underpowered.

However, if your aim is maximum power only - in particular in view of the 1/4 mile races that are so popular in the US - then a big single turbo is the better solution as it is not restricted by the small stock housings of the OEM turbos. However, different manifold and downpipe(s) are necessary, as well as a more sophisticated tuning solution in order to be able to control this setup.

Alpina_B3_Lux

But then wouldnt it be better to upgrade to 2 big turbos there by keeping the twin setup only bigger rather than just upgrading to 1 big one?

[Adil]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

The TD Turbos do offer a "fix", but I wouldnt call it an upgrade. Their fix is removing all of the old hardware, machining down the same shaft to true it up, and installing a new bushing that has a smaller ID to accomodate the freshly turned down original shaft. Everything is still the same materials (aside the bushing) and dimensions (aside from the turned down shaft which is less desirable as the shaft diameter really needs to be increased). If you send them 6mm wastegated turbos, you are returned 6mm wastegated turbos. This is not the same as completely replaced wastegates with billet premium wear matched materials with optimum dimensions; all converted to 8mm.

As for oil consumption: turbos are not bulletproof. Certain things or conditions can wipe them out quickly, regardless of manufacturer. There most certainly is a difference between "an isolated (or percieved prevalent) issue" and "an unresolved issue" of a product. If TD (or any manufacturer) sends out enough of them, I can guarantee you they too will have an issue arise here or there.

Last I checked RBs are less than 50% the cost of TD Stage 2, which is a rather substantial savings. I'd consider that more of a worldwide value for the money, not sure how only the US.

Do you have any distributors in the UK for RB turbo's upgrades?

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by Adil

Do you have any distributors in the UK for RB turbo's upgrades?

Just have them sent to a trustworthy member's house and have that member ship it to you in the UK.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by Adil

But then wouldnt it be better to upgrade to 2 big turbos there by keeping the twin setup only bigger rather than just upgrading to 1 big one?

there isn't room for 2 bigger housings. have you ever looked in there? there is barely enough room for the stock turbos

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Not at this point, however just like anyone else they can be shipped worldwide. Shipping cost typically varies from $100-$500 worldwide pending on destination and courier of choice.

Originally Posted by Adil

Do you have any distributors in the UK for RB turbo's upgrades?

[Adil]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Not at this point, however just like anyone else they can be shipped worldwide. Shipping cost typically varies from $100-$500 worldwide pending on destination and courier of choice.

My only issue with that is that if there is any problems its going to be so long winded trying to get any problems sorted whereas if you had a UK distributor then it would just give a bit more piece of mind. But RB will def be under my consideration.

Can you confirm if the RB turbos are both water and oil cooled like the stock turbos?

Also what would you say the main advantage is of the RB turbo over the TD ones? Sorry if this has already been answered.

[indy99gpgt]

Originally Posted by Adil

But then wouldnt it be better to upgrade to 2 big turbos there by keeping the twin setup only bigger rather than just upgrading to 1 big one?

Yes and no. Yes the lag time will decrease and you’ll have two large turbo's but the downside is size and cost. You will still have to have a custom manifold /downpipe, turbo piping, and intercooler for a large twin turbo setup. With a large single you can save space and also make just as much power as with a twin setup.

That being said, there are different ways you can setup a twin. You can do sequential or parallel twins. Parallel is how our stock turbos are setup. Sequential is two in series with each other. Sequential is the way to go(if you do a twin) with one small and one large turbo in line. the small one spools down low and helps spool the larger one for top end. With parallel twins, you will have lag issues with larger turbos. You have less exhaust pressure going through each turbo(because its splits the supplying cylinders) so spool time is increased unless sized properly.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

The TD Turbos do offer a "fix", but I wouldnt call it an upgrade. Their fix is removing all of the old hardware, machining down the same shaft to true it up, and installing a new bushing that has a smaller ID to accomodate the freshly turned down original shaft. Everything is still the same materials (aside the bushing) and dimensions (aside from the turned down shaft which is less desirable as the shaft diameter really needs to be increased). If you send them 6mm wastegated turbos, you are returned 6mm wastegated turbos. This is not the same as completely replaced wastegates with billet premium wear matched materials with optimum dimensions; all converted to 8mm.

As for oil consumption: turbos are not bulletproof. Certain things or conditions can wipe them out quickly, regardless of manufacturer. There most certainly is a difference between "an isolated (or percieved prevalent) issue" and "an unresolved issue" of a product. If TD (or any manufacturer) sends out enough of them, I can guarantee you they too will have an issue arise here or there.

Last I checked RBs are less than 50% the cost of TD Stage 2, which is a rather substantial savings. I'd consider that more of a worldwide value for the money, not sure how only the US.

It wasn't meant as a criticism of your workmanship, you know. So no need to be touchy, I have no vested interest in either Turbo Dynamics or any other upgrade.

However, I do know that the TD stage 2 - which are quite similar to your setup - work very well on several cars. Also without wastegate rattle, so their fix / upgrade does seem to work (even if it may be inferior to your solution). Also, it's rather easy to have them install the latest 8mm actuators.

As for the oil consumption, I did not want to infer that this is caused by your turbos (although others have made that accusation). But it can be observed with more than one car that runs with your turbos and it is (to my knowledge) currently unclear what causes it. I don't exclude that the TD upgrade would have the same issues, it's just that I do not know of any car that does.

Concerning the price, I've already commented on that - in a quite positive sense. However, it may be that some prefer a shop that is close to where they live, which is why I presented your upgrade as oriented towards the US clientele in the first place.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Rob@RBTurbo]

The only difference in getting things "sorted" would be shipping delays (possibly several days). Manufacturers would require you send them the turbos for inspection, then they fix or replace, warranted or not, and then send back. A distributor is only at the mercy of the manufacturer in these situations. You certainly shall not expect any manufacturer to have a new set of turbos for you to install before yours are removed and inspected. There are times when problems are misdiagnosed and aren't even turbo related.

Yes they are also water and oil cooled and retain usage of all OEM coolant and water lines for a direct bolt-on.

Originally Posted by Adil

My only issue with that is that if there is any problems its goign to be so long winded trying to get any problems sorted whereas if you had a UK distributor then it would jsut give a bit more piece of mind. But RB will def be under my consideration.

Can you confirm if the RB turbos are both water and oil cooled liek the stock turbos?

Also what would you say the main advantage is of the RB turbo over the TD ones? Sorry if this has already been asnwered.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Adil

Sorry if i'm asking a rookie question but surely the twin turbo that n54 comes with stock is better than single turbo? Surely there would be more turbo lag with single turbo?

With regard to replacement/refurbished turbos i've heard good things about Turbo Dynamics in the UK.

Those looking for more power understand the compromises of a large turbo. However, with today's technology turbo lag is not as intrusive as it was say in the early 90's or late 80's. It all depends on the turbo used and how its implemented in the system. Fitting 2 large snails is quite the task in a car with an engine bay this tight. Also upgrading to 2 big turbos has a significant cost compared to one big one

[sdstatestud88]

Give us more info AR, what is going to bring people to your product over the other competitors? Any insight besides the tease pic...Its like when I give my girl the "tip"

[Rob@RBTurbo]

I realize that but your "unresolved" connotation seems like it's a universal widespread issue with a product. It doesn't seem fair to single out issues and make them seem widespread at ones' preference. For example you say TD wastegates "seem to work"; what about this thread?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421567

Don't get me wrong, even brand new wastegates will make a little noise and rattle abit. But the issue above "seems to not work" as the new replacement MHI units fixed the rattle immediately. Perhaps that means TD has "unresolved" wastegate fix issues. In that thread, TD mentions some wastegate parts being "baggy" and may not be 100%. Well guess what that is the norm on most of these cores. The INTERNAL Wastegates I've seen are mostly junk or well on their way. It is so bad it's not even worth trying to find the 1/10 that maybe considered usable with some probability of success. So whichever upgrade you choose, you better make sure your cores have "known perfect" wastegates if they are not in some beneficial way addressed by the manufacturer.

As for the 6mm vs. 8mm "wastegates":

At some point, MHI began changing turbos INTERNAL wastegates to a lever design with an 8mm pin (up from 6mm). This has NOTHING to do with the actuators, it is the internal wastegates that were modified. There were a few other revisions to the INTERNAL wastegate components at this time, the 8mm pin being only one of them. Although refinements continued as time went on, the 8mm pin remained the same. So if you have the 8mm pin on your turbos this at least means you have some of the refinements, but does not guarantee you have them all. I have seen 8mm units with excessive wear, which is why MHI continued with updates. The smaller 6mm pins had older INTERNAL wastegate designs that had excessive premature wear issues all over. TD does not correct all of this, they simply work with what they are supplied and try to remedy at the single wear point aforementioned (wastegate arm shaft and support bushing). They do not address the flapper to wastegate arm which is in my opinion the primary culprit for rattle. Nor do they replace the 6mm pin with an 8mm pin if presented a 6mm set of cores. I would agree that fixing the shaft and bushing will temporarily prevent the shaft from binding though, along with reducing a smaller amount of the rattle... at least until the shaft wears oblong again (same material).

The actuator themselves have never changed, dimensionally, but did get a new spring inside the body later in production. There was never a 6mm or 8mm actuator. They have always been the same aside for the spring. However, the holder (end piece) that threads on to the actuator did change to an 8mm hole (from 6mm) to work with the later 8mm Wastegate Lever Pin incorporated into the Internal wastegates on the turbine housing (which brought about the Internal wastegate changes listed above).

Once again. There is no such thing as a 6mm or 8mm Wastegate ACTUATOR, but there is such thing in the Wastegate INTERNALS (and the holder which simply threads onto the Actuator and slips over the 8mm Lever Pin). That said, if your cores have the 6mm Internal wastegate design to begin with they will always be the 6mm design and materials unless the wastegate internals are completely discarded and reworked from scratch.

Sorry about the tangeant, just so much confusion in this area I am trying to help some understand.

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

It wasn't meant as a criticism of your workmanship, you know. So no need to be touchy, I have no vested interest in either Turbo Dynamics or any other upgrade.

However, I do know that the TD stage 2 - which are quite similar to your setup - work very well on several cars. Also without wastegate rattle, so their fix / upgrade does seem to work (even if it may be inferior to your solution). Also, it's rather easy to have them install the latest 8mm actuators.

As for the oil consumption, I did not want to infer that this is caused by your turbos (although others have made that accusation). But it can be observed with more than one car that runs with your turbos and it is (to my knowledge) currently unclear what causes it. I don't exclude that the TD upgrade would have the same issues, it's just that I do not know of any car that does.

Concerning the price, I've already commented on that - in a quite positive sense. However, it may be that some prefer a shop that is close to where they live, which is why I presented your upgrade as oriented towards the US clientele in the first place.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[nafoo]

What's the wait time on RB turbos at this time?