[tibra1]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Sorry chap, I suspect I am the cause of the .

I was merely thinking out loud that there probably isn't a fail safe that can be integrated with a flash, simply due to the nature of the flash.

Whereas a piggy has additional hardware that controls map switching based on meth flow.

No worries..

[PlutoniumTans]

LMAO whatttttttttttttttt theeeeeee fukkkkkkkkkkk ???????

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by cwn23

If its not broke why fix it! The way the failsafes are working with Procede and JB4 are pretty much fool proof, why change it and go another direction. I am sure once Cobb integrates meth into their maps this solution.

HEY STEVEY Wonder, read the title " METH FAILSAFE FOR FLASHED CARS" !

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Sorry chap, I suspect I am the cause of the .

I was merely thinking out loud that there probably isn't a fail safe that can be integrated with a flash, simply due to the nature of the flash.

Whereas a piggy has additional hardware that controls map switching based on meth flow.

If you read the thread carefully then you will see that I pointed out that other cars besides 335i/135 etc. run meth, and the way they have it setup is the flowsensor for example safeinjection by snow, triger 12v or 5v w.e. that makes the solenoid to open the wastegate, so there could be number of different ways to setup a failsafe not just only switching maps like on piggybacks, and since such tunes as evolve etc is coming out it would be very nice to find out how can we setup failsafe for those type of tunes, I'm sure cobb is going to do something very similar. Thanks

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans

If you read the thread carefully then you will see that I pointed out that other cars besides 335i/135 etc. run meth, and the way they have it setup is the flowsensor for example safeinjection by snow, triger 12v or 5v w.e. that makes the solenoid to open the wastegate, so there could be number of different ways to setup a failsafe not just only switching maps like on piggybacks, and since such tunes as evolve etc is coming out it would be very nice to find out how can we setup failsafe for those type of tunes, I'm sure cobb is going to do something very similar. Thanks

settle down there big fella, noth'n to get your panties all tied up about

I doubt there is (happy to be proven wrong) a FSB solution for a flash. My understanding of a flash is its a 'static' of fixed tune same as stock but with different settings. there is no additional hardware and a single map. So lets assume you have meth on 100% of the time and then poof you run out, whats the fsb gonna do, pull over and load a different map???

As I said at the beginning I suspect this is why people stack tunes to get the FSB

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by pcockley

settle down there big fella, noth'n to get your panties all tied up about

I doubt there is (happy to be proven wrong) a FSB solution for a flash. My understanding of a flash is its a 'static' of fixed tune same as stock but with different settings. there is no additional hardware and a single map. So lets assume you have meth on 100% of the time and then poof you run out, whats the fsb gonna do, pull over and load a different map???

As I said at the beginning I suspect this is why people stack tunes to get the FSB

I'm chill bro, but you are clueless, it's NOT only about MAPS ! 99.9% of tuned cars don't run piggys with maps just to let you know, there could be a different way of failsafe, I explained already how, and there are tons of other cars using it that way.

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans

I'm chill bro, but you are clueless, it's NOT only about MAPS ! 99.9% of tuned cars don't run piggys with maps just to let you know, there could be a different way of failsafe, I explained already how, and there are tons of other cars using it that way.

I think its a little past your bed time.

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by pcockley

I think its a little past your bed time.

Ok kangaroo there

[themyst]

A boost bypass solenoid is an external piece that connects in between the DVs. You connect an external failsafes 5v trigger to it, dial in expected flow and delay and if those conditions aren't met, cuts vacuum.

The solenoid itself is 60 dollars from Snow Performance. I suspect there will be more elegant solutions coming out soon from BMS or an integrated IAT based failsafe built into the map itself from Cobb.

This is all pointless until a meth map of some sort is actually released though.

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by themyst

A boost bypass solenoid is an external piece that connects in between the DVs. You connect an external failsafes 5v trigger to it, dial in expected flow and delay and if those conditions aren't met, cuts vacuum.

The solenoid itself is 60 dollars from Snow Performance. I suspect there will be more elegant solutions coming out soon from BMS or an integrated IAT based failsafe built into the map itself from Cobb.

This is all pointless until a meth map of some sort is actually released though.

Ok so there is a basic failsafe, if I understand your comment. But as you point out which I guess was my main point unless you have a tune that will take advantage of meth in the first place why would you bother. Then I figure, well as I understand if you have a piggy (and yes i do) that runs a meth map it will 'protect' you in the case of no flow and lower the 'settings'. but unless you have a lets call it a 'map' that can switch it sounds kinda scary

[enrita]

I guess you can see it this way:
A flash could have a "hotter" map for meth like for example GIAC stage 2+ (race). This map as i recall it on my car run more ignition advance but same boost. The ECU had different ignition tables which based on the knock sensor feedback were used .
This is safe since the ECU has full control and knows whats going on . See it like when you change from 93 octane to 91 in a hot day. Car will pull timings and adjust in safety.

Different is when you add 2-3 psi of boost on top of the timings . Here i presume it is needed to run RACE gas to prevent detonation on top of the meth kit if NO failsafe is available since the ECU wont manage to pull enough timing to prevent detonation. It is just to aggressive.
Another point that Dzenno raised many times is how do you know for sure that all cylinders are always getting the same amount of meth ? maybe cylinder 1 is fine but cylinder 3 is pulling lots of timings because is getting half the meth?

[cwn23]

Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans

HEY STEVEY Wonder, read the title " METH FAILSAFE FOR FLASHED CARS" !

Read my last sentence you "deadbeat". Lol. It says once Cobb integrates meth then this solution!!! What are u reading??

[themyst]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Ok so there is a basic failsafe, if I understand your comment. But as you point out which I guess was my main point unless you have a tune that will take advantage of meth in the first place why would you bother. Then I figure, well as I understand if you have a piggy (and yes i do) that runs a meth map it will 'protect' you in the case of no flow and lower the 'settings'. but unless you have a lets call it a 'map' that can switch it sounds kinda scary

The flow sensor is used in a different implementation on a piggyback's methanol failsafe than what will be options on a flash tune. The flow sensor would use the 5V trigger in this instance, vs the 0-5V / 0-1.5V flow outputs that the piggybacks use to ensure meth is flowing.

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by enrita

I guess you can see it this way:
A flash could have a "hotter" map for meth like for example GIAC stage 2+ (race). This map as i recall it on my car run more ignition advance but same boost. The ECU had different ignition tables which based on the knock sensor feedback were used .
This is safe since the ECU has full control and knows whats going on . See it like when you change from 93 octane to 91 in a hot day. Car will pull timings and adjust in safety.

Different is when you add 2-3 psi of boost on top of the timings . Here i presume it is needed to run RACE gas to prevent detonation on top of the meth kit if NO failsafe is available since the ECU wont manage to pull enough timing to prevent detonation. It is just to aggressive.
Another point that Dzenno raised many times is how do you know for sure that all cylinders are always getting the same amount of meth ? maybe cylinder 1 is fine but cylinder 3 is pulling lots of timings because is getting half the meth?

as far as I understand well atomized meth distributes pretty much even in all cylinders, what would stop it ?

[PlutoniumTans]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Ok so there is a basic failsafe, if I understand your comment. But as you point out which I guess was my main point unless you have a tune that will take advantage of meth in the first place why would you bother. Then I figure, well as I understand if you have a piggy (and yes i do) that runs a meth map it will 'protect' you in the case of no flow and lower the 'settings'. but unless you have a lets call it a 'map' that can switch it sounds kinda scary

why can't you understand that there could be multiple different ways of getting failsafe besides switching the maps ?

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by PlutoniumTans

why can't you understand that there could be multiple different ways of getting failsafe besides switching the maps ?

But to do this aren't you adding a boost bypass. But I assume (and I am sure you will free to correct me as you seem so very smart) you are still running the same 'agressive' map.

My point is simple with a piggy they are swapping the map in the event of no meth. Is this possible for a flash??

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by pcockley

But to do this aren't you adding a boost bypass. But I assume (and I am sure you will free to correct me as you seem so very smart) you are still running the same 'agressive' map.

My point is simple with a piggy they are swapping the map in the event of no meth. Is this possible for a flash??

It should be up to the driver to switch to a street map if the meth isn't flowing anymore... never trust software to do what a human should

[themyst]

Originally Posted by pcockley

But to do this aren't you adding a boost bypass. But I assume (and I am sure you will free to correct me as you seem so very smart) you are still running the same 'agressive' map.

My point is simple with a piggy they are swapping the map in the event of no meth. Is this possible for a flash??

You will throw a CEL And limp if you lose flow using the discussed setup.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Well anyway here is my .02 for other platforms using Methanol on flashed cars.

They have designated flow gauges with a warning system. I.e. a light or a noise or tapped into the tune or other aspects of the car to do 1 of several options depending on application/platform.

How we do it on our flash tunes I'm not sure but this system below should be able to handle it.

WHAT MAKES AEM’S WATER/METHANOL FAILSAFE DEVICE UNIQUE
AEM’s Water/Methanol FAILSAFE Device actively monitors the entire flow curve independent of pressure, continuously collecting flow vs. injection rate data so that any deviation from your established flow curve will trigger an alarm output that can be used to reduce boost or timing, change maps, add fuel, trigger a two-step or perform practically any action you choose to save your engine. It is PC programmable (with USB connectivity) which eliminates the guesswork when setting min/max threshold parameters. It features PC-based software and an auto-scaling flow map that simplifies set up, and has an “Auto Set” feature that will create a baseline configuration. A video showing its ease of set up is on www.aemelectronics.com. And it will work on virtually ANY water/methanol injection system that uses ¼” OD or 4mm OD tubing!

HOW IT WORKS
Should an alarm trigger, the AEM Water/Methanol FAILSAFE Device has one low-side (ground) driver and one high-side (+12v) driver that can be configured to turn on or off during an alarm condition. For instance, late-model Subaru WRX STi owners can connect the low-side driver to the ‘limp’ wire behind the kick panel that will dump boost and pull timing via the factory ECU. If you have a supercharged Chevy 350cid small-block, you can use it to pull timing from a switched aftermarket ignition system. The possibilities are endless.

A high-tech analog gauge is included with the AEM Water/Methanol FAILSAFE Device, with programmable backlighting to match your factory gauges. The gauge needle and backlighting can be configured to flash when an alarm is triggered to notify of a potential system error. This system also includes an internal data logger that records injection and alarm status data for future reference.

The above is from AEM's fail safe and how it works.

If anyone is interested in it, let me know.

A lot more info here :

http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...afe-device-56/

Basically the questions for flash users isnt which system works, the question is how can we tap into this car to either reduce timing, reduce boost, or throw an automatic limp mode ETC

[cwn23]

If the boost bypass doesnt allow the car to boost properly regardless of how agressive the map may be, it would be moot because the high boost will never be reached because of the boost bypass. I think this is a viable solution

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by themyst

You will throw a CEL And limp if you lose flow using the discussed setup.

that doesn't sound too appealing

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Well anyway here is my .02 for other platforms using Methanol on flashed cars.

They have designated flow gauges with a warning system. I.e. a light or a noise or tapped into the tune or other aspects of the car to do 1 of several options depending on application/platform.

How we do it on our flash tunes I'm not sure but this system below should be able to handle it.



The above is from AEM's fail safe and how it works.

If anyone is interested in it, let me know.

A lot more info here :

http://www.aemelectronics.com/gauges...afe-device-56/

Basically the questions for flash users isnt which system works, the question is how can we tap into this car to either reduce timing, reduce boost, or throw an automatic limp mode ETC

You could wire the 5v trigger to a light bulb if u wanted to go ghetto. .