[dxb335d]

Forget about cost of the Denzil you stick in it. The 335d is epic machine!!

It's it's massive torque which is addictive!!

[jonl1983]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Forget about cost of the Denzil you stick in it. The 335d is epic machine!!

It's it's massive torque which is addictive!!

Agreed!!!

My mileage is dropping to about 12k/year from April and did consider a petrol but would miss the monster torque of the D so bought a 640d instead of the 640i. There was also a better deal on the d due to the residuals.

[parapaul]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Consider one extra factor which is premium fuel.

I don't know if you ALWAYS put premium in your 335i: But I would in your shoes. Wheras I abuse the crap out of my derg. Any fuel will do. I don't feel it makes any difference to the way the car drives or how it feels / the mpg it achieves etc.

Nobody else picked up on this?

I thought exactly the same when I first had my 330D - tried and found no benefit to premium diesel, so stick with the cheap stuff. However, after owning it for a few months, I tried again with VPower diesel, and felt the difference as soon as I pulled off the forecourt.

I've been caught out once since then and had to fill up with regular diesel, and it's not just a placebo effect - the VPower really is better in mine.

Economy is absolutely unchanged, that's not a reason to switch. But the engine runs noticeably smoother and quieter, throttle response is noticeably sharper and at low revs, the turbo lag seems less severe too although that may just be the same effect as the improved throttle response.

AND it's got nice cleany shiny chemicals in to look after those very expensive injectors

It's an extra 7p a litre over regular Shell diesel at my local stations. Well worth the extra £4 a tank IMO.

[gIzzE]

You could buy Millers, works out around £2 a tankful and you can pretty much use whatever fuel you are passing.
I prefer Shell regular with Millers over V Power.

[creepy coupe]

What are the service intervals on a soot chucker?

[MEGA]

Very good.

Mine first service 6k second service 22k.

Rear brake pads are due in 6k and nothing else due this year.

Oil service every 20k but I personally change this inbetween myself at the 10k mark as well)

[doughboy]

With a performance car purchase, for me anyway, its a heart over head thing.

If it just came down to dull things like mpg / running costs etc then I'd by a cheap small diesel van (which we have done, for work). That's the ultimate expression of a cost analysis and where diesel proves its worth.

Diesels are great at what they do, just a bit soul less and efficient. Imagine if they did an all-electric '335e' version with 300bhp etc, i suspect diesel owners would 'follow the spreadsheet' and go for that, as a cost calc is the only reason to have a diesel engine, so it follows those kind of buyers would more likely follow the cheapest route £/bhp.

I suspect the petrol owners would stay with petrol though.

[225_AB]

Originally Posted by doughboy

With a performance car purchase, for me anyway, its a heart over head thing.

If it just came down to dull things like mpg / running costs etc then I'd by a cheap small diesel van (which we have done, for work). That's the ultimate expression of a cost analysis and where diesel proves its worth.

Diesels are great at what they do, just a bit soul less and efficient. Imagine if they did an all-electric '335e' version with 300bhp etc, i suspect diesel owners would 'follow the spreadsheet' and go for that, as a cost calc is the only reason to have a diesel engine, so it follows those kind of buyers would more likely follow the cheapest route £/bhp.

I suspect the petrol owners would stay with petrol though.

I like many others did not buy the diesel because of the "cost calc". We actually like it. Imagine what a dull place it would be if we all liked the same things. I have ordered a 640D which is going to cost more to lease than a 640i but i prefer the 640D. If i was using a "cost calc" then the 640i is cheaper over the 2 years of contract hire that I will have it for.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Very good.

Mine first service 6k second service 22k.

Rear brake pads are due in 6k and nothing else due this year.

Oil service every 20k but I personally change this inbetween myself at the 10k mark as well)

20k between services. that's too much for a petrol.let alone a tractor IMO

[pani_K3]

I made an excel spreadsheet to calculate such costs between petrols and diesels when I was looking at different cars so I'll put your figures into it and see what I come up with because 60,000 miles to see any benefit when you do 18,000 miles PA is more than I would have originally thought considering I based my calculations on around 8000 miles PA the diesel would still outweigh a petrol quite considerably only considering fuel economy. I did use different base rates though.

[Subzero2003]

The majority of people i know who have a diesel will never save money over buying a petrol. Many of the non-car people i know only look at the MPG and see that a diesel gets a bit more and that is their decision made right there, even though the majority of them do under 8k miles a year!

They don't think about the difference in fuel costs, the complexity of diesel engines or the fact that they will need to do decent mileage to realise any cost benefits. It's a shame really - hearing a nice big straight-6 or V8 engine around town was something that made me smile but it's increasingly rare. Now all i seem to hear is Vauxhall Corsa 1.3CDTI's rattling and DAG DAG DAG DAGing around town.

WHAT DO WE WANT - LARGE AURALLY PLEASING PETROL ENGINES AND A BAN ON SMALL DIESEL ENGINES!
WHEN DO WE WANT THEM - NOW!

[TMP]

Originally Posted by parapaul

Nobody else picked up on this?

I thought exactly the same when I first had my 330D - tried and found no benefit to premium diesel, so stick with the cheap stuff. However, after owning it for a few months, I tried again with VPower diesel, and felt the difference as soon as I pulled off the forecourt.

I've been caught out once since then and had to fill up with regular diesel, and it's not just a placebo effect - the VPower really is better in mine.

Economy is absolutely unchanged, that's not a reason to switch. But the engine runs noticeably smoother and quieter, throttle response is noticeably sharper and at low revs, the turbo lag seems less severe too although that may just be the same effect as the improved throttle response.

AND it's got nice cleany shiny chemicals in to look after those very expensive injectors

It's an extra 7p a litre over regular Shell diesel at my local stations. Well worth the extra £4 a tank IMO.

Totally agree, i posted on this a while back http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=diesel:

I had to fill up the other day and with no BP station around had to settle for Shell standard (they didn't even have V power).
As soon as i pulled away I felt a real delay in throttle response. Seriously it was so noticeable my first thought was the auto box was holding on to a high a gear but the lag was there in every gear

Shell fuel save is a bit better than the old standard shell when i posted the above.

Originally Posted by doughboy

With a performance car purchase, for me anyway, its a heart over head thing.

If it just came down to dull things like mpg / running costs etc then I'd by a cheap small diesel van (which we have done, for work). That's the ultimate expression of a cost analysis and where diesel proves its worth.

Diesels are great at what they do, just a bit soul less and efficient. Imagine if they did an all-electric '335e' version with 300bhp etc, i suspect diesel owners would 'follow the spreadsheet' and go for that, as a cost calc is the only reason to have a diesel engine, so it follows those kind of buyers would more likely follow the cheapest route £/bhp.

I suspect the petrol owners would stay with petrol though.

Your right, diesels have no soul but are incredibly competent fast all-rounders, with a much better economy/performance ratio.

My 330d is the best car I ever have owned BUT I dont quite love it like my fast petrols - such as the Scooby or even the missus Copper S.

p.s. i think soul appears somewhere at 6k revs and gets stronger the higher you rev with the more you bounce off the limiter

[Subzero2003]

Originally Posted by doughboy

With a performance car purchase, for me anyway, its a heart over head thing.

If it just came down to dull things like mpg / running costs etc then I'd by a cheap small diesel van (which we have done, for work). That's the ultimate expression of a cost analysis and where diesel proves its worth.

Diesels are great at what they do, just a bit soul less and efficient. Imagine if they did an all-electric '335e' version with 300bhp etc, i suspect diesel owners would 'follow the spreadsheet' and go for that, as a cost calc is the only reason to have a diesel engine, so it follows those kind of buyers would more likely follow the cheapest route £/bhp.

I suspect the petrol owners would stay with petrol though.

I entirely agree with this. On paper, a 335i makes no sense over a 335d, but in real life, for a petrol head, it sure as hell does. If everything was run with efficiency and value for money in mind, we'd all be living up north, with Argos own brand tvs and holidaying in Wales.

Everyone in life has a passion for something, and mine is certainly is driving and cars. I love the sound of them, i love the feeling of driving them and i love the feeling of owning something a bit different and more special than the norm and i'm not going to cheapen that by going for the more efficient/sensible option as there is many other things i would sacrifice before i sacrificed the sound and feeling of my petrol engine.

The day will definitely come when I and the rest of Europe will have to switch to dull, souless diesel/electric cars and that day will be very sad, but for every day that i'm not forced to drive something i don't want to, i'm going to enjoy at 7krpm whilst making a torrent of noise about it .

[MEGA]

Too many horror stories about HPFP, injectors, coked pistons etc for me to get an i.

Letalone I appreciate the huge fuel savings that the derg gives me.

Was no comparison for me.

Also for my budget (just under 30k) I could have got a good M3 for the money - which is a big preference above the 335i, but still didn't.

I love torque, and I also want completely effort free performance with minimal worries. The idea of a low miler in warranty with no real issues won it for me in the end.

don't get me wrong I did deliberate for quite a while. I even bought a performance petrol in the interrim to see how I felt (the zed) and other than the exhaust note I don't miss it one bit.

[Kerr]

We don't have enough oil for everyone to switch to diesel.

Too many diesels as it is.

Demand for diesel is greater than supply in this country.

[Kerr]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Too many horror stories about HPFP, injectors, coked pistons etc for me to get an i.

Letalone I appreciate the huge fuel savings that the derg gives me.

Was no comparison for me.

Also for my budget (just under 30k) I could have got a good M3 for the money - which is a big preference above the 335i, but still didn't.

I love torque, and I also want completely effort free performance with minimal worries. The idea of a low miler in warranty with no real issues won it for me in the end.

don't get me wrong I did deliberate for quite a while. I even bought a performance petrol in the interrim to see how I felt (the zed) and other than the exhaust note I don't miss it one bit.

I've been here for a while now and it seems the amount of times all these points are made is way out of proportion to 335i drivers suffering these failures.

It seems all BMWs have a few flaws.

[phil200tdi]

The point of this thread as I see it is that you could buy a 335i and run it for 1/2/3 years and it would cost you less overall (servicing & repairs, fuel, insurance, depreciation) than an equivalent age, mileage and spec 335d.

Hence diesel vs petrol on a purely cost analysis does not make as much sense as it once did.

[MEGA]

It's going off topic. It'll always end up becoming a general diesel versus petrol debate.

But my point is only that many people forget that the diesels will still be worth more when selling them at the end of the term, which always drastically reduces the "miles to break even" that petrol owners always use as a justification.

IE. A 40k mile 3 year old 335i is worth for arguments sake 17k and the equivalent diesel is worth 20k.

This isn't too much of a difference from new when the diesel engined carried a 3k premium. Meaning the guy who just sold it, for it to be on the market for us to look at now: Just made most of his 3k additional outlay back at sale time.

As for servicing: Excluding the DPF IF it goes, which it won't when talking about a newer vehicle unless you plan to keep it for many many years: This is exactly the same price.

Therefore apples to apples comparison: Total cost per mile after sale of vehicle: The diesel is likely to win out at more like 8k miles per year. Not the 20k people seem to always have in mind.

As I said earlier this goes out of the window when at say 70k+ miles. Imminent DPF issues at that mileage is a game changer. Furthermore it goes out of the window if the gap between diesel and petrol keeps growing. My own personal calculations put the gap at 16p between like for like per litre costs before I'd never break even: And obviously as the difference in prices grows, the "miles per year to break even" is growing exponentially higher.

Alllllllllllllllllllll of that said: If you buy the petrol 335i or the big boy M I'm sure you do it knowing that it's going to cost more to run and just plain not caring. If that's you then by all means good for you I don't feel any of the diesel brigade are trying to be at all evangelical. I'm just pointing out the 'rest' of some of people's arguments which tend to get conveniently left out

Dave