[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I can see it coming: Procede rev 3.x! Get ready for the upgrade boys and girls.

Nice work on the research though. This AEM sensor seems very neat!

Will all due respect, you should read more carefully before making such predictions.

[pits200]

Would the aem sensor be a potential upgrade for us stock turbos running (What is considered high boost) 18psi, fbo with meth?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I can see it coming: Procede rev 3.x! Get ready for the upgrade boys and girls.

Nice work on the research though. This AEM sensor seems very neat!

Originally Posted by pits200

Would the aem sensor be a potential upgrade for us stock turbos running (What is considered high boost) 18psi, fbo with meth?

Not really. I can't imagine where running more than 18psi would be desireable on the stock turbos.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Not really. I can't imagine where running more than 18psi would be desireable on the stock turbos.

depends where in the powerband. Up top, I would agree.

[RaihaX]

lol a post got deleted from this thread already.

Seems cool - can't wait to see more dyno on higher boost.

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by pits200

Would the aem sensor be a potential upgrade for us stock turbos running (What is considered high boost) 18psi, fbo with meth?

Even on upgraded turbos, you will not see much more airflow on these TD04's. Wish I still had my car, I would love to see if the RBs could push 22-24 psi, but I just don't see it happening, especially on stockers. You eventually become size limited and upping the boost becomes detrimental.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

Even on upgraded turbos, you will not see much more airflow on these TD04's. Wish I still had my car, I would love to see if the RBs could push 22-24 psi, but I just don't see it happening, especially on stockers. You eventually become size limited and upping the boost becomes detrimental.

WGDC is close to tapped out around 19-20 psi @ 7000 RPM on the RBs if that's what you're referring to. But there is a little more to be squeezed out up to 6000 RPM with a 3.5 bar. May be worth a few tenths in 3rd gear after an upshift.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

They have already been posted a while back.

not for 25+ psi, unless I've missed something

[AltecBX]

Shiv have you looked into the Motorola MPX4250AP map sensor? It reads in the intake manifold side and I believe it reads up to 36psi and is noise free.

The Motorola will be a a cheap upgrade of $13, as the AEM 3.5 BAR, which can read up to 50psi is $155.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

Shiv have you looked into the Motorola MPX4250AP map sensor? It reads in the intake manifold side and I believe it reads up to 36psi and is noise free.

The Motorola will be a a cheap upgrade of $13, as the AEM 3.5 BAR, which can read up to 50psi is $155.

I have some experience with the Motorola device. It's common on stand alone ecus with built in MAP sensors. But usually that involves running a long vacuum line to the DME which isn't desireable. It's best to keep the MAP sensor as close as possible to the vacuum source.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Not really. I can't imagine where running more than 18psi would be desireable on the stock turbos.

I didn't mean to run more boost, maybe I misunderstood. I meant as a replacement for stock since the position of the aem sensor is in a more favorable position.

Like I said, maybe I misunderstood.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by pits200

I didn't mean to run more boost, maybe I misunderstood. I meant as a replacement for stock since the position of the aem sensor is in a more favorable position.

Like I said, maybe I misunderstood.

Ah i see what you mean now. Yes, i do think their could be benefits even with the stock turbo in that case. Would be worth looking into once we get more single turbos out on the road.

Shiv

[M///1rider]

Shiv i was just wondering since your speaking of the magazine reviews of your single turbo n54.

When will they be doing the reviews?

Also when can we expect to see them?

Thanks!

[OpenFlash]

Here's a quote from another tuner on the other forum. Not many people go there so let's bring the discussion here. If a tuner can't quite understand the benefits of a manifold referenced load sensor, it's worth further discussion on this forum. My comments below...

Tuner says...

I've been running an N2O sensor for a week or two. Works great! I love the stealth factor and easy install. A couple general comments on his comments:

1) With isolated boost control the throttle is generally open full time. And when it moves and starts to close you're also aware of that. I don't believe there is much difference in terms of boost accuracy either way.

Yes, with the Procede's isolated boost control, the throttle blade is generally open. Except when it's not. Like between shifts, while transition from partial to full throttle (and visa versa), during traction control events or any situation where actual boost is greater then the boost control setpoint. It is during these conditions where a manifold mounted sensor and a charge pipe mounted sensor will read differently. Often by as much as several PSI.

Reading boost closer to the turbo makes reacting to changes a little faster too.

I thought this comment was funny. The goal here is to monitor engine load/boost accurately. This can only be done when measuring pressure at the inlet of the engine (intake manifold). Moving the load sensor more upstream gives you a less accurate representation of engine load and more accurate representation of turbo's pressure ratio. Not much use in that.

2) I have not seen how his circuit board relay system works when the procede is powered down but it's possible the reason the N2O sensor was abandoned is due to design issues.

The Procede reads a 0-5v analog 3.5 bar MAP signal just like it reads a 2.5 bar sensor. Or a fuel pressure sensor. Or an o2 sensor. To suggest that opting for a true manifold referenced load sensor (over a charge pipe referenced sensor) is due to computer hardware limitations has no merit.

3) I don't really see the need for an extra analog input even with the AEM sensor. Just read it with the same analog input you're using to read the OEM TMAP sensor. Unless, there is some specific reason you must have the OEM sensor signal in place. See comment #2.

This has been discussed in the first post of this thread.

4) The AEM sensor might be a cheaper alternative. So if that works out fine for them I don't see much of an issue either way.

The AEM sensor is not a cheaper alternative unfortunately. It's approx $50 more than the N20 sensor.

Regards,
Shiv

[CPWINCH]

whats the difference if you are not turning up the boost

[SIKH335]

Steve I'm gonna miss your cars first runs as I'm out of the country until April 14th, the constant innovation is great I'm so glad we are the next two to come out of this upgrade. I heard number four is being shipped in to Vishnu. Great job Shiv/ Sean

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

Boom ... headshot! I'm lovin' it!

Can't wait to run it.

[thwgw24]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

whats the difference if you are not turning up the boost

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

As for results, there really isn't much more to do with it until we start bumping up the boost which won't happen until after magazine testing.
Shiv

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I don't plan to bump up boost beyond 21psi for another 2-3 weeks.

He will turn up the boost.

[SIKH335]

^^^^^^ yes he will.

[SIKH335]

[pits200]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

whats the difference if you are not turning up the boost

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The Bad-- Since the sensor mounts in the charge pipe (pre-Throtte body), it is subject to pressure spikes caused by throttle blade activity. It also doesn't account for the pressure loss induced by the throttle body/blade which can easily account for 1.0+psi at high boost applications.

Conclusion-- A good sensor for measuring charge pipe pressure. Not so great for measuring actual engine load since it reads pressure from the wrong side of the throttle blade. The DME had an internal model for calculating engine load based upon the pressure differential between the baro sensor (mounted post-throttle in the intake manifold) and the charge pipe pressure. However well it may calculate engine load at stock-like boost pressures, it does a pretty miserable job when running high boost. It also doesn't help that the pre-throttle baro sensor can only read up to 5-6psi of boost before flatlining. Which means that you can easily get an partial throttle scenario (where the throttle blade is partially open) where the baro sensor is maxed out AND the charge pipe pressure sensor is reading an artificially high pressure (due to partial throttle closure). Not really an issue when running stock-like boost pressures of 5-9psi, somewhat of an issue when running FBO levels of boost (15-17psi) and a real big issue when running big turbo boost (20+psi). Understandable given the fact that boost, fuel and ignition control are all essentially being referenced off of an inaccurate load signal.

I just wonder why BMW wouldn't have incorporated a manifold sensor instead straight from the factory.

[Kalud]

Originally Posted by pits200

I just wonder why BMW wouldn't have incorporated a manifold sensor instead straight from the factory.

They did on the n55

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by pits200

I just wonder why BMW wouldn't have incorporated a manifold sensor instead straight from the factory.

Shiv stated that for stock boost, the CP MAP sensor is adequate. At higher boost and much higher volume, things can go very wrong much faster. Manifold pressure is where its at, though I'd keep the 3.5 bar N20 sensor in the CP anyway just for a point of reference.