[psmitty95]

Just a heads up, Terry really didn't want these logs posted on any forums since the map is still in the beta phase. He asked for them to be emailed to him only. Just letting you know...

[N 5 4]

Since e85 users are tuned...

Theoretically, what is the outcome of using e85 on a non-tuned car, say using e85 on a stock-tuned 335iS?

[ragingpanda]

Originally Posted by BA335iS

Since e85 users are tuned...

Theoretically, what is the outcome of using e85 on a non-tuned car, say using e85 on a stock-tuned 335iS?

You might have less timing corrections than if you were using 91 octane solely.

[RSTECH]

This is the address for the new Hyde park, exit 25 of the northern state if I'm not mistaken
77-40 Hewlett st, new Hyde park, ny 11040 and there's another one less then 5 min from there on hillside.

[RSTECH]

This one is a few min away from the other one
137 Hillside Ave, Williston Park, NY 11596

[A418t81]

Yes, it is phenomenal stuff. I absolutely love it in my GT-R

[Bimmerlover76]

Well, don't expect that to last. First of all, the manual explicitly recommends against 85% ethanol and second, the Obama admin. just made a strong stance against ethanol subsidies and high-fructose corn syrup.

[C.Shopp335xi]

Anyone tried this in a flash tuned car? Any comments? Any downfalls?

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by C.Shopp335xi

Anyone tried this in a flash tuned car? Any comments? Any downfalls?

You can run E85 in a COBB tuned car, only 1 problem -- You need get a custom map made. Basically you need to take your car to the local Access Pro Tuner (http://www.cobbtuning.com/Pro-Tuners-s/70681.htm#BMW), bring some E85 and let them dyno/tune/calibrate a custom map for you to run E85.

• Positives: You can download up to 100 maps on the COBB AP. So you can have your normal OTS Maps + run 93/91 octane. Then when you want to run Race Gas/E85/Alternative Fuel, you can use a custom Pro Tune Map. This even works for people that want to run meth or take advantage of their aftermarket turbos (RBs) and run the boost REAL high.
• Negative: It costs money (custom maps, dyno time, etc) & you're screwed if there isn't a Pro Tuner near you

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by Bimmerlover76

Well, don't expect that to last. First of all, the manual explicitly recommends against 85% ethanol and second, the Obama admin. just made a strong stance against ethanol subsidies and high-fructose corn syrup.

+1 - the fuel system internals aren't the right materials for ethanol, which is supposed to be one of the contributing factors to earlier-model hpfp failure (most gasoline these days has up to 10% ethanol). Ethanol has a significantly higher octane level, but it also only has about 70% of the thermal efficiency of gasoline, resulting in noticeable loss in mpg. That loss offsets any price differential, unfortunately.

There are numerous vehicles on the roads with "flex-fuel" badges on them that have been equipped with fuel-system parts that are not affected by ethanol (mostly rubber or other seal materials). What can happen in a non-equipped car is deterioration of those parts and even bits and pieces getting into your injectors. The owner's manual states not to use anything more than E15 (15% ethanol and 85% gasoline), so as they say, caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by BA335iS

Since e85 users are tuned...

Theoretically, what is the outcome of using e85 on a non-tuned car, say using e85 on a stock-tuned 335iS?

The best I can get around here is 91 octane fuel. For others in the same boat, 1-2 gallons on a stock tune car will smooth out the idle but that's about it. You need a tune to take advantage of the higher octane and minimize the possibilities of damage to the engine due to fueling issues.

As for fuel system damage, you have to decide whether to follow the manual or look to the tuning communities for many other cars where E85 has been in use for nearly a decade. I know personally several cars that run 100% E85 without any fuel system issues, and all of their manuals also state not to run E85... IMO, you will need to address issues with the engine from running higher boost well before you will need to address dissolved fuel system components.

Bottom line... as with any mods, you pay to play.

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Ethanol has a significantly higher octane level, but it also only has about 70% of the thermal efficiency of gasoline, resulting in noticeable loss in mpg. That loss offsets any price differential, unfortunately.

After doing some research, I notice that running on purely E85 you'll be getting 20-30% less fuel economy than using 100% 93 octane. Since we are using up to 50% E85 mix with gasoline, we will be looking at 10-15% in fuel economy loss with our cars. I would like to see tuners that are now supporting E85 to be able to come around the MPG loss in using a E85 mix. This is going to be the tuners next challenge when using this application. I believe who ever comes up on top with proper testing & tuning, will be ahead of the rest. We all know that if you want more power we can keep upgrading our parts (FMIC, DP's, Turbos, Meth, etc), but if we can attain more power and save $ by paying less at the pump (E85), that's a WIN/WIN situation.

Here's a E85 vs. Gasoline Comparison Test

[roadkillrob]

E85 technically isn't cheaper as it only has 80-85% of the energy of a gallon of gasoline, so while it does produce more power, it will drop your MPG all things being the same by 15 - 20%, so technically it is basically the same price if you calculate the cost per mile not per gallon.

E85 is also super corrosive to fuel system components - E85 cars have all the fuel system components made out of plastic or stainless and even the rubber fuel lines are special rubber or stainless. Our cars have already had issues with the fuel pumps running E10, so I would be afraid to use it, but the only way to know is to wait and see what happens running E85 in these cars for a few years. Being as all cars are required to be able to burn E10, maybe it is not as significant as it was when cars were build for no ethanol and E85 would gum them up terribly.

One thing I know as the E85 wreaks havoc on my older motorcycles if you don't train it out, eats all kinds of stuff in the carbs and I have seen it delaminate fiberglass fuel tanks in boats and then clog up the fuel system with bits of fiberglass, so it certainly can't be treated the same as gas!

[NjRep335i]

FWIW, I drive 120 miles each day to work, this includes city driving and highway. I run 50/50 93/E85 JB4 Map5, DP,DCI and haven't noticed a decrease in MPG. Not to say that If you drove 1 full tank at 65mph until empty you wouldn't notice. I just think that it's not really measurable differences. BTW. Love the way the car pulls right now. I have meth but haven't used it since all the WW fires. Relocating to the trunk soon.

[N 5 4]

Originally Posted by whoosh

The best I can get around here is 91 octane fuel. For others in the same boat, 1-2 gallons on a stock tune car will smooth out the idle but that's about it. You need a tune to take advantage of the higher octane and minimize the possibilities of damage to the engine due to fueling issues.

As for fuel system damage, you have to decide whether to follow the manual or look to the tuning communities for many other cars where E85 has been in use for nearly a decade. I know personally several cars that run 100% E85 without any fuel system issues, and all of their manuals also state not to run E85... IMO, you will need to address issues with the engine from running higher boost well before you will need to address dissolved fuel system components.

Bottom line... as with any mods, you pay to play.

True, I never really researched on e85, but I've found out in the past that it corrodes rubbers/metals, but that's the furthest I've read. I wouldn't want to have fuel system degradation (over time) for an immediate trade of HP (w/ tune). I've heard of tuners converting their gasoline system to e85 components, and that's also where cost could be a factor.

As a result, more power to the users of e85! It's impressive stuff!

I have to drive about 50 miles to obtain a variation of gasoline (87, 94, 96, 98 & 100).

[C.Shopp335xi]

Originally Posted by benzy89

You can run E85 in a COBB tuned car, only 1 problem -- You need get a custom map made. Basically you need to take your car to the local Access Pro Tuner (http://www.cobbtuning.com/Pro-Tuners-s/70681.htm#BMW), bring some E85 and let them dyno/tune/calibrate a custom map for you to run E85.

• Positives: You can download up to 100 maps on the COBB AP. So you can have your normal OTS Maps + run 93/91 octane. Then when you want to run Race Gas/E85/Alternative Fuel, you can use a custom Pro Tune Map. This even works for people that want to run meth or take advantage of their aftermarket turbos (RBs) and run the boost REAL high.
• Negative: It costs money (custom maps, dyno time, etc) & you're screwed if there isn't a Pro Tuner near you

So for a Dinan tune it wouldn't make much sense to do it since I won't be able to take advantage of the E85? Thanks for the response!

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by C.Shopp335xi

So for a Dinan tune it wouldn't make much sense to do it since I won't be able to take advantage of the E85? Thanks for the response!

Dinan tune = waste of money. While the Vishnu & BMS tunes offer E85 maps directly integrated into their tune, and the COBB doesn't offer E85 OTS maps (but you can get a custom tune for E85), the Dinan tune will NEVER see an E85 map (it'll also never see enough of a performance gain to justify the price).

[Blue Streak]

Originally Posted by plague

dude thank you. this app is great, otherwise id have been calling gas stations lol.

+1. Nice app!

[Blue Streak]

Originally Posted by NjRep335i

FWIW, I drive 120 miles each day to work, this includes city driving and highway. I run 50/50 93/E85 JB4 Map5, DP,DCI and haven't noticed a decrease in MPG. Not to say that If you drove 1 full tank at 65mph until empty you wouldn't notice. I just think that it's not really measurable differences. BTW. Love the way the car pulls right now. I have meth but haven't used it since all the WW fires. Relocating to the trunk soon.

I am actually getting better mpg's on the new JB4 map 5 with E85, but when I hammer it and go high boost, it does go down by a few mpg's. Just driving "conservatively" does keep the mpg's up to about a 22-24 mpg average for me.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by roundel335

+1 - the fuel system internals aren't the right materials for ethanol, which is supposed to be one of the contributing factors to earlier-model hpfp failure (most gasoline these days has up to 10% ethanol). Ethanol has a significantly higher octane level, but it also only has about 70% of the thermal efficiency of gasoline, resulting in noticeable loss in mpg. That loss offsets any price differential, unfortunately.

There are numerous vehicles on the roads with "flex-fuel" badges on them that have been equipped with fuel-system parts that are not affected by ethanol (mostly rubber or other seal materials). What can happen in a non-equipped car is deterioration of those parts and even bits and pieces getting into your injectors. The owner's manual states not to use anything more than E15 (15% ethanol and 85% gasoline), so as they say, caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

and yet our Brazilian counterparts have the exact same fuel system as our European counterparts and are driven with mandatory 25% ethanol content in Brazil reliably.

[roadkillrob]

Originally Posted by spool twice

and yet our Brazilian counterparts have the exact same fuel system as our European counterparts and are driven with mandatory 25% ethanol content in Brazil reliably.

Does anyone know if they had HPFP fuel pump issues like the US as BMW pointed to the poor quality ethanol laden fuel in the US as the issue indicating that they had no issues with the fuel pumps in Europe (or at least a lot less issues).

[NjRep335i]

Originally Posted by Blue Streak

I am actually getting better mpg's on the new JB4 map 5 with E85, but when I hammer it and go high boost, it does go down by a few mpg's. Just driving "conservatively" does keep the mpg's up to about a 22-24 mpg average for me.

Yup, I'm around the same MPG's. I've also been dropping the hammer a ton more now, feels like a whole new car.This is how I wanted Map 5 to work from the beginning.