[BMWdrmz]

Originally Posted by reb03

I gathered my data using a Davis Automotive CarChip. It's relatively inexpensive at $149 (Midway Automotive) and will provide us with all the info EXCEPT oil temp. It does not record oil temp but this is not a problem for me since my coolant temp sends my car into limp home mode before my oil temp causes limp home mode. If you get a CarChip please share your data with us. At 75-78 degrees I doubt you'll have a coolant overheat issue.

reb03 I didn't get a chance to get the car chip to do data logging. As such I'll describe my day.
Run 1 Conditions:
Ambient temp: ~70 F
Front/ Rear Tire Pressure: 38/40 psi cold
Tires: Dunlop SP Supersport Race (R-Compound)

The attached diagram highlights the course and my speeds around the track.
Resulting oil temp after 1st 25 minute session: ~250F (slightly over)

Run 2 Conditions:
Ambient temp: ~74 F
Front/ Rear Tire Pressure: 37/35 psi cold (to much understeer from previous set up)
Tires: Dunlop SP Supersport Race (R-Compound)

The attached diagram highlights the course and my speeds around the track.
Resulting oil temp after 2nd 25 minute session: ~250F - 260F

Run 3 Conditions:
Ambient temp: ~77 F
Front/ Rear Tire Pressure: 37/35 psi cold
Tires: Dunlop SP Supersport Race (R-Compound)

The attached diagram highlights the course and my speeds around the track.
Resulting oil temp after 3rd 25 minute session: 260F

In all cases I running the engine to 6500 RPMs and shifting around 6800. Prior to going to the track I had my coolant changed and added a mixture of 60/40 coolant/water. I also use CASTROL 10W-60 motorsport oil.

[RMRC]

BMWdrmz - I think two things are at work here against my car. #1 the outside air temp was around 95 degrees and #2 I have the Steptronic with paddles. Living in the LA area I decided to try my first auto...please remind me to never pull that stunt again. The temp is self explanatory but unlike the 6MT I'm told the Step transmission is cooled by a jacket radiator piggybacked to the main radiator. It seems the Step, when worked hard in manual mode, is introducing more heat to the system than can be dissipated. The result is a coolant temp which spirals higher and higher until it hits the magic 242 degrees. In my case this sadly occured over and over again. But let's not forget, it's documented that this also happened to a 6MT car at the Streets of Willow.

I guess BMW missed the demographic for step buyers as is evidenced by the missing oil cooler in pre March production cars and now some cases of overheating coolant. But, it's not my fault the step cars can't take 95 degree heat and hard driving. I'll let you know how my story plays out if my car overheats again at my next school in Sept at Buttonwillow. I kind of doubt the outside air temp in Bakersfield in Sept will be any cooler so I'm anticipating more of the same problem. If so back to the dealer it will go and then they'll have only one more shot at fixing it.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by reb03

Over a week ago I sent Mark and Tom my graphs and asked if they could comment but I never received a response. I'm not surprised since I've been told by someone close to folks at Autobahn that they are "working" with BMW on a fix for this. I hope a fix comes soon because I can only get about 15mins of lapping before my car with cooler goes into limp home mode. I have not tried turning the heater on full blast though so perhps I'll try that.

Tom said they are working with BMW, but he didn't sound too optimistic.

[sg335]

BMWdrmz, what were your hot pressures? You must have been near 50psi hot in the front with those cold temps. Try starting with 30F/32R and see how close you get to 40. Where did you find those SPSSR's?? I ran through my last set over a year ago. We bought 14 sets from Tirerack. Your production dates on the tire must be from 2002. How did they work? Mine lost there stick in the end as the compound deteriorated just sitting around for for four years in storage. Thanks for the info.

[BMWdrmz]

Originally Posted by sg335

BMWdrmz, what were your hot pressures? You must have been near 50psi hot in the front with those cold temps. Try starting with 30F/32R and see how close you get to 40. Where did you find those SPSSR's?? I ran through my last set over a year ago. We bought 14 sets from Tirerack. Your production dates on the tire must be from 2002. How did they work? Mine lost there stick in the end as the compound deteriorated just sitting around for for four years in storage. Thanks for the info.

Hot temps: My left rear temp was 42 and right rear was just a hair over 43 psi. The front were closer to 44 (with about 1 psi disparity between the right and left side). Next time I'm out I'll try your recommendation.
Overall, I really like the tires. I purchased them from Tire Rack last year. They were on sale because they were being discontinued. They were so inexpensive, I thought why not give me a try, and If Ididn't like them no biggie (@~$/ tire 112). I'm kind of kicking myself now, thinking I should have purchased an extra set. I'll have to check the production date, but I haven't experienced any loss of grip yet. They also seem to hold up to heat and have a pretty good wear pattern. I probably have one driving school left in them, and I 'll have to find something else.

[RMRC]

So far it sounds like the overheating coolant issue is somewhat rare. In fact, I think I'm the only one on the board who has experienced it. Is this true? Given this, are you 6MT guys comfortable that your cars will hold up to driving schools in 95 degree heat? If my car is bought back or goes lemon law do I go with the 6MT (preferred anyway) or consider another car...perhaps going back to E46 M3? Any thoughts?

[Lost Horizon]

Originally Posted by reb03

So far it sounds like the overheating coolant issue is somewhat rare. In fact, I think I'm the only one on the board who has experienced it. Is this true? Given this, are you 6MT guys comfortable that your cars will hold up to driving schools in 95 degree heat? If my car is bought back or goes lemon law do I go with the 6MT (preferred anyway) or consider another car...perhaps going back to E46 M3? Any thoughts?

If you have the scratch, wait on the new M3..

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizon

If you have the scratch, wait on the new M3..

There won't likely be time for that. If my car goes lemon law or is bought back I would expect it to happen by the end of summer. The cost is affordable but not palatable and the new M has grown to 3,700 lbs according to the latest Autoweek. And if I'm spending $70k with options I would have to consider the 997 which I believe to be in a different league. Though, it's not fair to compare the two. This plus I will never buy a 1st year run again.

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

Tom said they are working with BMW, but he didn't sound too optimistic.

At Buttonwillow I'll see if someone with a 6MT wants me to record their temps vs. mine. Then I can share the results with everyone here on the forum.

I've thought about trying the 10w60 we used in the M3s but the manual recommends either 5w30 or 5w40. Given that I'm having problems with my car and that they don't appear to be oil temp related I don't want to use a viscosity not found in the owners manual. I can see BMW denying warranty coverage due to incorrect oil.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by reb03

At Buttonwillow I'll see if someone with a 6MT wants me to record their temps vs. mine. Then I can share the results with everyone here on the forum.

I've thought about trying the 10w60 we used in the M3s but the manual recommends either 5w30 or 5w40. Given that I'm having problems with my car and that they don't appear to be oil temp related I don't want to use a viscosity not found in the owners manual. I can see BMW denying warranty coverage due to incorrect oil.

To make sure you're on the same page, all the 335i were autos at Autobahn. I've heard the 6MT are more heat resistant than the autos (or autos or more heat inducing).

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

To make sure you're on the same page, all the 335i were autos at Autobahn. I've heard the 6MT are more heat resistant than the autos (or autos or more heat inducing).

Yes exactly. Maybe 90 degrees ambient is the limit for a Step because at 95 mine limped over and over again after just 15min each session. Should be interesting to compare it to another 6MT. Anyway my coolant overheats will be hard for BMW NA to dispute.

[chelle26]

If the engine overheats and exceeds its normal operating range, the elevated temperatures can cause extreme stress in the cylinder head which may result in a head gasket failure. Coolant can boil out of the BMW 325es radiator and be lost. Pistons swell inside their cylinders and can scuff or seize. Valve stems can swell in their guides and also scuff or seize. This, in turn, may damage valve train components (broken rocker arms, bent pushrods, etc.) or possibly result in damaging contact between the valve head and piston if the valve sticks open. The thermostat should be check to0.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by reb03

Yes exactly. Maybe 90 degrees ambient is the limit for a Step because at 95 mine limped over and over again after just 15min each session. Should be interesting to compare it to another 6MT. Anyway my coolant overheats will be hard for BMW NA to dispute.

Have you ever had any work done on your cooling system? Ever had to add water?

I was looking over your graphs and had a question about how to read them. There are the vertical dotted lines...what do they represent?

[scollins]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Have you ever had any work done on your cooling system? Ever had to add water?

I was looking over your graphs and had a question about how to read them. There are the vertical dotted lines...what do they represent?

It has a key at the bottom of the graphs. Red dotted lines are hard braking, red solid lines are extreme braking. It looks like blue lines are for acceleration, but I don't see any on there.

I personally think that a lot of Step's going into limp mode on the track have more to do with coolant temps than oil temps. But everybody just assumed it was oil temps because their gauges were near max, and the one noticeable difference is that 6MT cars had the additional oil cooler. This is fairly common, to mis-diagnose a problem. That isn't to say that high oil temps aren't a problem, but that the real culprit for many limp modes is more likely coolant temp issues than oil temp issues. This is especially true in high ambient conditions, where you are more likely to be running the A/C as well.

The coolant system on the Step not only cools the engine, it also cools the transmission. So it is working harder in a Step car than a 6MT car. That is part of the reason you are seeing higher coolant temps with the Step than the 6MT. If I had a Step car, I'd be asking for an auxillary transmission cooler as well as the oil cooler. Maybe even an increased capacity pan for the transmission as well. That should take some load off the primary cooling system.

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Have you ever had any work done on your cooling system? Ever had to add water?

I was looking over your graphs and had a question about how to read them. There are the vertical dotted lines...what do they represent?

See the legend at the bottom of the charts. The various vertical lines represent hard and extreme braking as well as hard and extreme acceleration. No coolant testing or flushing was done.

BTW, the step is gone and I now have a 6MT. After so many MTs I don't know why I decided to try the auto but I quickly learned it's not for me.

[The Cleaner]

Originally Posted by BMWdrmz

I know the 335 high engine temps have been discussed and that we all agree that the temps are a bit on the high side.

I dont agree the temps are on the high side. The 335 has been in several endurance races and not suffered from heat related failures.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

I dont agree the temps are on the high side. The 335 has been in several endurance races and not suffered from heat related failures.

......because they removed the airflow blocking AC condenser and upgraded the oil coolers.

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by reb03

See the legend at the bottom of the charts. The various vertical lines represent hard and extreme braking as well as hard and extreme acceleration. No coolant testing or flushing was done.

BTW, the step is gone and I now have a 6MT. After so many MTs I don't know why I decided to try the auto but I quickly learned it's not for me.

Probably a wise choice!

I saw the legend and understood, but was still having some trouble reading the graphs. Perhaps my small laptop monitor was making it harder.

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Probably a wise choice!

Right, now if I can just get it broken in before Fontana on Oct 6-7....

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

......because they removed the airflow blocking AC condenser and upgraded the oil coolers.

Exactly and probably an upgraded radiator as well.

[HP Autosport]

Out on the track with Southern California Audi Club this weekend at Buttonwillow Raceway. Ambient temperature reached 97 F at times on the track and in the low 90's in the pits.

Armed with Redline 5W40 and Water Wetter. Pushing the car around 8/10th got the oil temp close to 270 F. No power losss at that temperature and the car was still pulling hard.

Last time out at Willow Spring Raceway with ~80 F ambient temperature, driving the car at 8/10th as well, I believe I saw oil temp just under 250 F.

Some of the Audi guys consistantly see oil temp near or above 300 F this past weekend.

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Armed with Redline 5W40 and Water Wetter.

Have you done a Used Oil Analysis of the Redline 5w40? I'd be curious what the results are. It seems these direct injection engines suffer from pretty bad fuel dilution causing the oil to break down rapidly (<3,000 miles) and flashpoints to plummet. I learned of this problem over at www.bobistheoilguy.com.