[arcrox]

Would this void the service warranty or result in the dealer starting a hissy fit?

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by Guess

Sure. Its quite simple.

When your driving on the highway, with the cruise control on @ 70mph and a steady incline is approaching, your car presses ever so lightly on the throttle.

with 200 hp (for example) it has to press the throttle harder, and for a longer period of time, then with 220hp. because at the same throttle application (lets say 20% throttle application) you are producing more power with the same amount of fuel (throttle related to how much air/fuel goes into your engine)

Chips retune fuel/air maps, and usually lean out fuel map curves, therefore producing more hp, with better economy. For the sake of emissions, manufacturers must allow cars to run very rich so all the onboard emissions equipment (namely your cat) can run properly.


Trust me, I worked with a chip retuner on my old car, a Mazda 3, and I had a chip retune done on my previous car before that, a Jetta 1.8t

With both I experienced better gas mileage once a retune was complete.


Don't doubt something unless you try it.

I've tried it, I had a full stand alone racing ECU (AEM EMS) on my last car with a custom turbo. Chipping a car still doesn't automaticaly equals better gas milage. The point that dinan article was making, however, is that most tuners claim their tremendous power gains under unrealistic environment (e.g. dyno room).

When they are testing under these unrealistic environment (mainly the temperature is too hot), the car's ECU reacts differently, which means the car's ECU tells the car to run at less then optimum power to protect the car due to higher temperature. The tuners than retune the map, so instead of backing off the timing and allowing the car to run more rich, they lean it out to increase power. Unfortunately, this increase in power only come in the dyno room. When the car is driving in realistic environment, that remapping doesn't even come into play.

I wouldn't say this chip offered by whatever this company is, is useless, but I would highly doubt its actual funtion. Perhaps I would be convinced of its power gain if a car is taken to a drag strip and compare back to back over and over again with and without the chip, and shows an actual noticeable gain.

[ward]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

I've tried it, I had a full stand alone racing ECU (AEM EMS) on my last car with a custom turbo. Chipping a car still doesn't automaticaly equals better gas milage. The point that dinan article was making, however, is that most tuners claim their tremendous power gains under unrealistic environment (e.g. dyno room).

When they are testing under these unrealistic environment (mainly the temperature is too hot), the car's ECU reacts differently, which means the car's ECU tells the car to run at less then optimum power to protect the car due to higher temperature. The tuners than retune the map, so instead of backing off the timing and allowing the car to run more rich, they lean it out to increase power. Unfortunately, this increase in power only come in the dyno room. When the car is driving in realistic environment, that remapping doesn't even come into play.

I wouldn't say this chip offered by whatever this company is, is useless, but I would highly doubt its actual funtion. Perhaps I would be convinced of its power gain if a car is taken to a drag strip and compare back to back over and over again with and without the chip, and shows an actual noticeable gain.

:rocks:

buying a chip for fuel economy reasons, or using that to justify your purchase is silly. If you think the chip will give you more power have a great time with it and please report back (no butt dyno please)

the claims just seem a bit unbelievable to me

[noflash]

Even Dinan says their chips increase fuel economy.

[zdognaylor]

Generally you will get better MPG because the tuners lean out the air fuel mixture. But you also increase the chance of detonation to your engine say if you get a bad tank of gas. Also they advance the timing as well. which could cause problems with detonation as well.

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by Guess

You guys crack me up.

UPsolute is the largest chip retuner/provider in the world. Its a German Company, much bigger then Dinan, therefore it has the power to do a retune before dinan does.

For what it´s worth:

Im german
I live in germany
I´ve never heard of them
You could wake me up in the middle of the night and yell at me: "Quick ! Name the first thre BMW tuners that spring to your mind" and I´d answer "AC Schnitzer, Dinan, Hartge"

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

For what it´s worth:

Im german
I live in germany
I´ve never heard of them
You could wake me up in the middle of the night and yell at me: "Quick ! Name the first thre BMW tuners that spring to your mind" and I´d answer "AC Schnitzer, Dinan, Hartge"

haha good one my German friend.

[noflash]

They have a nice website
http://www.upsolute.com/eng/index.html

[Tierfreund]

There´s only one comment to by made on chiptuning:

There´s no such thing as a free lunch.

If you really do get more power from it you´ll pay for it with less longevity, more fuel consuption, worse emissions....

No tuner in the world has yet managed to reinvent the laws of physics

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by noflash

They have a nice website
http://www.upsolute.com/eng/index.html

Which also shows they are in Austria. So it´s not a german company....


In case you fellows over the ocean don´t know, Austria is NOT a part of germany

[RyBMW]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

In case you fellows over the ocean don´t know, Austria is NOT a part of germany

[voltron1011]

Upsolute has been tuning VW's for quite some time, so they are not new to the scene.

[timzerofive]

VW/Audi are different animals then BMW. I'm guessing they mostly tune the turbo cars (golf, a4's). You can get a lot of power out of chipping because audi/vw detune their turbo's performance by A LOT for reliability reasons. Chipping a NA car, especially one come as highly tuned from the factory as BMW's are difficult.

I mean AEM work with Japanese imports a lot and is a large company, but I wouldn't run out and buy their chip for a BMW unless I really hear some good feedback from reliable sources. Especially if they are claiming something that another more prominent BMW tuning company claims is virtually impossible. I had their EMS, which is one of the most powerful standalone racing ECU's out there on the market, but I still wouldn't turn to them as a source for tuning my 330.

[mr_blond]

If the car has a speed delimiter, when are you actually using your engine's full HP potential? Torque is the beast you need to rip from gear to gear.

Anyone know the efficiency of these new powerplants? An average engine gets between 30-35% efficiency, which means that, theoretically, more than 300hp are wasted away as heat loss, friction, and incomplete burn of the fuel.

It seems so easy to add a chip to a car and get great results in Gran Turismo...too bad.

[sake90]

keep us informed and where to get the reprogram from//

[bergy]

I think one model that would probably be the most receptive to a chip would be the Canadian 323i 2.5 litre.In European tune it puts out well over 200 hp then they detune it for the Canadian market to 174 hp.I would be very interested to see a dyno run to see if the 174 hp is accurate, or is this mainly a marketing ploy for model placement?

[GTS_330]

I think there are a lot to squeeze out of this 3.0 liter motor.... I also own a Toyota Celica GTS (notice the name) 1.8 liter with 180hp... you would think you can't any more horse power out of this motor.... wrong??? with just the aftermarket chip (Apexi Power FC) alone..... i got almost 11whp out of it, that's about 15 to the crank!!! So i think 30hp out of this motor is very very believable...... comment???

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by GTS_330

I think there are a lot to squeeze out of this 3.0 liter motor.... I also own a Toyota Celica GTS (notice the name) 1.8 liter with 180hp... you would think you can't any more horse power out of this motor.... wrong??? with just the aftermarket chip (Apexi Power FC) alone..... i got almost 11whp out of it, that's about 15 to the crank!!! So i think 30hp out of this motor is very very believable...... comment???

Well... how did you measure this 11 hp gain? If you did so in dyno, read the Dinan post. Also, Toyota is not the same as BMW's. Japanese cars are known to be tuned to be driver friendly and fuel efficient from the factory, so naturally there are a lot of room for aftermarket improvement. A RSX typeS with a simple intake and Hondata reflash gains huge horsepower that's very noticeable, just by quarter mile time alone. I think the discussion here is not whether chipping A car will yield improvement. We know it works on a lot of cars, but the points discussed were whether chipping definitely equals better gas milage, and whether chipping a BMW will yield actual hp gains when the few large BMW tuners say it won't.

The Apexi power AFC is a great tool though. It's similar to the AEM EMS I had but with less functions (AEM can be tuned through a laptop, apexi is through a small handheld screen). But notice, you can hardly find the same type of parts of BMW unless you're talking about full on build for track bmw's

[Dante]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

...you´ll pay for it with less longevity...

Guys, is Tierfreund the only who digs it?

"Chiptuning" definitly will void warranty and shorten the life of your (fuel) engines. Reprograming imo only makes sense with turbochargers (in diesels, or the mentioned popular vw/audi 1.8t-engine).

I would never want to ruin my brandnew engine (melted pistons etc.) for reliable 5- 10 hp.

Awaiting the dyno graphs though...

[StewtheBassman]

I have emailed Gary in Toronto.

I'll be there in a couple of weeks, and if he can do it then, I'm in.

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by bergy

I think one model that would probably be the most receptive to a chip would be the Canadian 323i 2.5 litre.In European tune it puts out well over 200 hp then they detune it for the Canadian market to 174 hp.I would be very interested to see a dyno run to see if the 174 hp is accurate, or is this mainly a marketing ploy for model placement?

The Europe 325 2.5 Liter with 218hp is an N52 engine (the magnesium block motor shared with the 330 and the US spec 325 albeit with 3.0Liters)

The Canadian 323 has the all-alloy M54TU engine that is a completely different construction. It´s the same as in the late generation (European) E46 323 and 325. In 2.5 Liter version it has never had more than 193hp. As a 3.0 Liter it way the E46 330 231hp engine. So it´s detuned all right but not by asmuch ass you are suggesting.

[bergy]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

The Europe 325 2.5 Liter with 218hp is an N52 engine (the magnesium block motor shared with the 330 and the US spec 325 albeit with 3.0Liters)

The Canadian 323 has the all-alloy M54TU engine that is a completely different construction. It´s the same as in the late generation (European) E46 323 and 325. In 2.5 Liter version it has never had more than 193hp. As a 3.0 Liter it way the E46 330 231hp engine. So it´s detuned all right but not by asmuch ass you are suggesting.

Thanks for the correction,what is your impression of the m54tu as far as reliability and performance?I am considering the 323i, I do not need a super high performance car just want a superb handling car with great safety features.Also would it get slightly better fuel economy then the 325i ?If only you could get the diesel engines in North America.Apparently our sulphur content is to high.