[kevinkevin]

Originally Posted by JIMD1709

These statements are not true. You need to read the contract. That contract does not mean anything until it is signed and accepted by the Dealer (GM) who will never sign it until it is funded by BMWFS. Also read your buyers order that you signed (it is a legal part of the deal) that will state the deal is not done until it is accepted by dealer (which they haven't done) or the bank (BMWFS, which has not accepted it either) It is not a done deal yet. I am sorry, but this is the truth.

On a side note. The Finance person who did your original contract screwed up. There can be no Guarrantor on a personal contract, unless the dealer signs recourse. (seperate issue altogether) That box is for coporate use. You Dad should have signed the co-leasee box to start with. Trust me, I have done finance for several years. They simply made a mistake. It's BS, but it happens. F&I guy didn't know how to do the deal properly.

Do not take advice from forum members who simply do not know lending laws!
Just because you sign a contract does not mean the deal is DONE. The are several other forms that go along with the contract that will say "this is part of the contractual agreement" one of them will say "upon acceptable terms" of the Bank, and the dealer. You do have leagl recourse....Bring the car back, or sign a contract acceptable to BMWFS. That is it. Ask a lawyer if you must, he will tell you the same.

Like I said, they had you sign in the wrong place. Work them for something, like an accessory or some money off, but if you don't sign a proper contract the car is not yours yet. Sorry for their mistake, but that is the truth.

Thanks.

To be honest, I don't mind bringing the car back. I plan on just buying another one. Probably from a different dealership.

Unless you think there's more to it than that.

What kind of financial damage, if any, should I expect?

As it is right now, I lost my old car and downpayment. Any chance of getting THEM back?

[aspiring335]

Originally Posted by kevinkevin

Hope you're right.

I don't want to lose the 328xi and G35. And I don't want to sign a new contract on their terms.

What will happen to my downpayment?

Be careful about whose advice you follow. You can't keep the 328xi without signing a new contract, but at the same time the dealer can't force you to sign a new contract. Your choices are to reverse the entire transaction (which would mean you would get your down payment and trade-in back) or to do as they ask and have your dad co-sign.

The only leverage you have is the extent to which the dealer doesn't want to taxe the 328xi back and try and sell it to someone else now that it's been driven for a few days, so you could try and negotiate a better deal with your dad as co-signer. This leverage will only work if you're prepared to walk away if they won't do anything for you.

Do anything else (e.g. ignore the dealer and try and keep the car) and as crappy as it is they could probably pursue some kind of legal action to get what is still their vehicle back.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by kevinkevin

Thanks.

To be honest, I don't mind bringing the car back. I plan on just buying another one. Probably from a different dealership.

Unless you think there's more to it than that.

What kind of financial damage, if any, should I expect?

As it is right now, I lost my old car and downpayment. Any chance of getting THEM back?

Stop worrying...!


You don't have to take the car back UNLESS you don't agree to have your Dad co-sign on the new contract they mailed to you.. If he does co-sign, then you can simply mail it back to them and continue on your way like nothing happened.

If you feel annoyed by all of this and all their BS isn't worth it. Show up at the dealer and DEMAND to speak with the person who messed up and get a free BMW hat (or a lower rate, like some have suggested) for your troubles.

Their wrong, not you.............!!







-Garrett

[kevinkevin]

Originally Posted by aspiring335

Be careful about whose advice you follow. You can't keep the 328xi without signing a new contract, but at the same time the dealer can't force you to sign a new contract. Your choices are to reverse the entire transaction (which would mean you would get your down payment and trade-in back) or to do as they ask and have your dad co-sign.

The only leverage you have is the extent to which the dealer doesn't want to taxe the 328xi back and try and sell it to someone else now that it's been driven for a few days, so you could try and negotiate a better deal with your dad as co-signer. This leverage will only work if you're prepared to walk away if they won't do anything for you.

Do anything else (e.g. ignore the dealer and try and keep the car) and as crappy as it is they could probably pursue some kind of legal action to get what is still their vehicle back.

Let's say I decide to walk away and give them the car back, do I in turn expect them to return my car and downpayment the very same day?

Got your point - that I should do something instead of ignoring them.

I just want to be realistic in my demands when I talk/meet with them tomorrow.

My dad signing as a co-lessee is not going to happen, I will make sure of that.

[chilenko]

From what I understand, even if your dad does sign as a co-lessee, you can still be the primary and therefore receive the credit. If you can't get approved at that BMW dealership you probably won't be able to at any other either. I did it this way and it worked out just fine.

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by kevinkevin

Let's say I decide to walk away and give them the car back, do I in turn expect them to return my car and downpayment the very same day?

Got your point - that I should do something instead of ignoring them.

I just want to be realistic in my demands when I talk/meet with them tomorrow.

My dad signing as a co-lessee is not going to happen, I will make sure of that.

If they're requiring him to be a cosigner, then there's no way any other dealer will lease you a car through BMWFS. You sound like you simply do not qualify for the BMWFS lease on your own.

they may have already sold your old car at auction, so they'll give you whatever trade in value they gave you for it back. that transaction is done, when you signed the title over, they exchanged the car for $$. its separate from the lease problem. If you look at your lease, there's no conditions for the trade in, only the value of it.

I'm not sure what the difference between cosigner and guaranteer is. both cases they are financially responsible if you default on the lease. I would just have your dad sign as cosigner. the only way this would hurt him is if you default on the lease.

[Nikki]

This happened to some guy in FL who purchased a truck and was told a week after he took delivery of the car that he didn't qualify and had to put another $5000 down or they would tow the car away. I think he ended up sueing the car dealership and getting the car for free. Unless this is a different situation it seems like you shouldn't have to return the car.

My friend was told the same thing when she got her MINI convertible a few days after she took delivery of the car. They said her mom needed to cosign or they would tow her car. I told her about the guy with the truck and told her to ignore it and she did and they never did anything about it.

[aspiring335]

Originally Posted by Nikki

This happened to some guy in FL who purchased a truck and was told a week after he took delivery of the car that he didn't qualify and had to put another $5000 down or they would tow the car away. I think he ended up sueing the car dealership and getting the car for free. Unless this is a different situation it seems like you shouldn't have to return the car.

My friend was told the same thing when she got her MINI convertible a few days after she took delivery of the car. They said her mom needed to cosign or they would tow her car. I told her about the guy with the truck and told her to ignore it and she did and they never did anything about it.

You're giving the guy advice without any understanding of how the credit approval / loan / lease process works, simply on the basis of some anecdotal examples that are likely very different to the OP's situation.

Do you really think a judge would give someone a truck for free because the dealership screwed up or acted stupidly? How could he possible argue that he suffered losses equivalent to the value of a new truck simply because the dealership jerked him around? You're awarded damages in court based on the direct or indirect costs incurred by the other party's actions.

I'm sure you mean well, but read JimD's posts and you'll see that the OP really only has two choices: have his dad co-sign, or return the car. Yes, the dealership really screwed up and they should somehow make good with the OP, but don't advise the OP to do things that could put him in a really difficult situation.

[dmz]

If you are willing to give the car back, I'd just go to the dealership and tell them either the original deal stays or you return the car and get your trade and down payment back.

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by aspiring335

You're giving the guy advice without any understanding

Scam Number 3 is what I am referring to.

http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/a..._10_auto_scams

[BiscottiGelato]

Originally Posted by dmz

If you are willing to give the car back, I'd just go to the dealership and tell them either the original deal stays or you return the car and get your trade and down payment back.

More like go to the dealer and say another k off the amount to be leased to resign or they get their crappy 4 day driven 'new' car back and you get ur downpay + trade in back in good hard cold cash.

Congrat on saving some bucks on ur lease

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Nikki

Scam Number 3 is what I am referring to.

http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/a..._10_auto_scams

except for the cosigner, it doesnt sound like they're changing any of the interest rates, etc. BMWFS is pass/fail on supported money factors anyway.

[kevinkevin]

Originally Posted by dmz

If you are willing to give the car back, I'd just go to the dealership and tell them either the original deal stays or you return the car and get your trade and down payment back.

Is it really that straightforward?

Will see what happens tomorrow...

[F2006]

It sounds like it was a honest mistake from the Finance guy who handled your paperwork. My advice: double check the paperwork and make sure nothing else (in addition to your dad's signature ) is changing. If this is the case, I suggest you just sign the new contract. Be kind to others, when they make a mistake in good faith, just like you would like them to be kind to you, if the roles were reversed.

[kevinkevin]

Originally Posted by F2006

It sounds like it was a honest mistake from the Finance guy who handled your paperwork. My advice: double check the paperwork and make sure nothing else (in addition to your dad's signature ) is changing. If this is the case, I suggest you just sign the new contract. Be kind to others, when they make a mistake in good faith, just like you would like them to be kind to you, if the roles were reversed.

Funny you should mention kindness...

I had to go through a lot of hassle after getting this car, but I sucked it up.

This new one tops them all! :mad:

I've been a gentleman the entire time, but they've been arrogant since the day I stepped in their dealership.

They should be taking lessons about kindness!

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by Nikki

Scam Number 3 is what I am referring to.

http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/a..._10_auto_scams

Kevin is in Virginia, you are in Boston, and you are citing California law?

I looked at that site. Perhaps some of that is the law in California but a lot of it seems to be limited to California or perhaps a few other states.

[logik06g35]

they probably let you out the door without actually getting you approved. We do this all the time. The finance guy probably figured he was going to get you approved and then ended up that he couldnt. Hence the reason that you have to sign new contracts.

It happens...as long as your lease stays exactly the same as what it is, they only need your father to co-sign for the approval through the bank.

you people are funny makin such a big deal out of it. WALK rite in there and stomp your foot throw a tantrum and get your money back!!!.....grow up its a friggin mistake.

[aspiring335]

Originally Posted by Nikki

Scam Number 3 is what I am referring to.

http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/a..._10_auto_scams

You are misunderstanding the situation and by the looks of it the meaning of scam number 3.

In the link you provide, it indicates that the only options available are to (a) cancel the contract and walk away or (b) sign a new deal. The 'scam' part in the link you provide is to do with the backdating of interest in the second contract to the date of the first contract. It's not to do with the scenario of actually requiring new terms -- i.e. it has very little to do with what the dealership in question is trying to do to the OP.

It even says in the link you provided (which is as noted above for a different state) that the dealer has 10 days to change the deal.

[Orient330iNYC]

Bottom of my BMWFS lease agreement states the following:
"This Lease, including all amounts to become due under it, and any guaranty, are subject to the provisions of the Center Agreement between Lessor and BMW FS." (Lessor is your BMW dealer)

i suspect one of those provisions is that the lease be approved by BMWFS before its valid.

If there's monetarily nothing different, other than your dad being the cosignee, whats the big deal? It sounds like a clerical error. Guarantor vs Cosignee is the same thing-- its to insure that if you cant pay the lease, someone else is on the hook financially. from what you've been saying, your dad had agreed to guarantee the lease the first time around, meaning that he was on the hook financially if you couldn't pay. Its not like they are trying to screw you out of money.

options:

a) have your dad listed as cosignee. end of story, you keep the car, the payments stay the same, you wait till your next car to get one under your own name.

b) return the car. get back assorted monies put down on lease, plus cash value of trade in. have to have your dad cosign lease with another car company anyway.

[myfirstbmw335i]

It's pretty simple. IF every line on the contract is EXACTLY the same (pymt, downpymt/money factor and etc.) and the ONLY reason is that the finance guy had your father sign on the incorrect line.....then it is not a scam.....

Since your dad has to go with you to resign the contract, make the Finance guy and the Dealer GM go over your copy of original contract and new contract LINE BY LINE before you and your father resign....if anything has changed and you DO NOT agree, DON'T sign then get your money and car back.....if the deal truly isn't "a done deal" until the BANK funds then the dealer should still have your old car because the entire transaction isn't legal..."yet"

my .02

[JIMD1709]

Originally Posted by kevinkevin

Let's say I decide to walk away and give them the car back, do I in turn expect them to return my car and downpayment the very same day?

Got your point - that I should do something instead of ignoring them.

I just want to be realistic in my demands when I talk/meet with them tomorrow.

My dad signing as a co-lessee is not going to happen, I will make sure of that.

If you return the vehicle you will get your downpayment and trade-in back. Don't worry. I still don't see what the big deal is to having your Dad sa the co-lessee. That is where he should have signed in the first place. It's really not a big deal, and you will get equal credit, so you wont have to go through this again. Just thoughts.

[JIMD1709]

Originally Posted by myfirstbmw335i

It's pretty simple. IF every line on the contract is EXACTLY the same (pymt, downpymt/money factor and etc.) and the ONLY reason is that the finance guy had your father sign on the incorrect line.....then it is not a scam.....

Since your dad has to go with you to resign the contract, make the Finance guy and the Dealer GM go over your copy of original contract and new contract LINE BY LINE before you and your father resign....if anything has changed and you DO NOT agree, DON'T sign then get your money and car back.....if the deal truly isn't "a done deal" until the BANK funds then the dealer should still have your old car because the entire transaction isn't legal..."yet"

my .02

This is good advice. Don't go in there demanding anything, you'll get nowhere. Tell them you're not happy, but don't make any empty demands, or else you will get your old car and money back.