[joec500]

A little info for the E90 Community 69 dollars + shipping!!! BOOM!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Oxygen...96db4d&vxp=mtr

[cstavaru]

Thanks for the info. In Europe, the difference between the Bosch part and the OEM part is only 30EUR (130EUR Bosch vs 160EUR OEM), so a total of 60EUR saving per pair. Not too big, but any avoidance of BMW tax is welcome

[sickem]

Thanks James,

I was getting codes related to fuel mixture for the two banks as well as lambda sensor codes. The trims on my procede were maxed out and my AFRs were whacky. So I purchased the OEM Bosch pre-cat sensors below:


11787558055-73-74-74E9XBMW E90/E92/E93 3-Series O2 Sensor/ Oxygen Sensor OEM

[Select O2 Sensor Location:Pre Cat Front Manifold.Cyl 1-3 (1400mm)]1$149.00$149.00
11787558055-73-74-74E9XBMW E90/E92/E93 3-Series O2 Sensor/ Oxygen Sensor OEM
[Select Model:335i 2007-2010]
[Select O2 Sensor Location:Pre Cat Rear Manifold.Cyl 4-6 (910mm)]1$149.00$149.00

I had a reputable shop here in NJ put them in. One thing though. After install there was no CEL but after driving for 10-20 miles the exact same codes came back. When I got home last night I reloaded the maps and rest adaptations via the command center. Do you think that will get rid of the codes? I guess I'll leave CANclear off for a few days to see...Haven't had a chance to log yet, not sure if I will before the storm...

Any help is appreciated.

[joec500]

Originally Posted by sickem

Thanks James,

I was getting codes related to fuel mixture for the two banks as well as lambda sensor codes. The trims on my procede were maxed out and my AFRs were whacky. So I purchased the OEM Bosch pre-cat sensors below:


11787558055-73-74-74E9XBMW E90/E92/E93 3-Series O2 Sensor/ Oxygen Sensor OEM

[Select O2 Sensor Location:Pre Cat Front Manifold.Cyl 1-3 (1400mm)]1$149.00$149.00
11787558055-73-74-74E9XBMW E90/E92/E93 3-Series O2 Sensor/ Oxygen Sensor OEM
[Select Model:335i 2007-2010]
[Select O2 Sensor Location:Pre Cat Rear Manifold.Cyl 4-6 (910mm)]1$149.00$149.00

I had a reputable shop here in NJ put them in. One thing though. After install there was no CEL but after driving for 10-20 miles the exact same codes came back. When I got home last night I reloaded the maps and rest adaptations via the command center. Do you think that will get rid of the codes? I guess I'll leave CANclear off for a few days to see...Haven't had a chance to log yet, not sure if I will before the storm...

Any help is appreciated.

When I had whacky AFR's I also had an idle control error. This was caused by a vacuum leak on one of my intake pipes going into the Turbo.

[sickem]

Originally Posted by joec500

When I had whacky AFR's I also had an idle control error. This was caused by a vacuum leak on one of my intake pipes going into the Turbo.

Thanks, that's good to know. Did it throw codes? I think this has to do with the oxygen sensors since I was throwing codes for them anyways.

[sickem]

Here's a 2-3 gear log after the O2 sensors were replaced. I'm still maxing out trims (at 75% OL fueling). AFRs look reasonable to me.

[joec500]

Originally Posted by sickem

Thanks, that's good to know. Did it throw codes? I think this has to do with the oxygen sensors since I was throwing codes for them anyways.

So I have been on epic witch hunt the illusive misfire cause. I have been getting misfires in 4-5-6 cylinders at idle and low RPM load (think 5th gear at cruise) and at stoplights (idle) only after the car is warm. I would get

2C3E Lambda bank 2 code.

I replaced cylinder 5 Injector (fouled plug)
All 6 plugs
and bank 2 precat o2 sensor.
I have more injectors on order to replace 4 + 6 injectors and new plugs, for safe measure for those injectors.

If the new injectors do not work, I am out of ideas. I am not getting rich or lean codes, just misfires. For some o2 sensors fixed it, and for others it was injectors. I just really hope it's not my DME, but we'll see.

When I had a leak on the turbo intake pipe I got the code:

2ADF idle control.

My mechanic smoke tested the car and found the leak. He reattached the pipe and re secured it and I have not received that error since.

At this point I am praying for the new injectors to help out on my warm misfires.

My Mods:

Rev 2.5 procede
DCI's
FlexFuel Kit with secondary pump
running 100% E85.

At WOT, the car rips, it's just these misfires which are killing the experience.

Here's the interesting thing, after the car misfires shakes and loses all power. I pull over. Recycle the car and everything works great for another 30-45 mins, sometimes longer. There is no rhyme or reason for the misfires, the only consistencies are that it's only at higher loads low RPM and at stoplights AFTER the car is warm (been driving for at least 20-30 minutes)

[sickem]

Originally Posted by joec500

So I have been on epic witch hunt the illusive misfire cause. I have been getting misfires in 4-5-6 cylinders at idle and low RPM load (think 5th gear at cruise) and at stoplights (idle) only after the car is warm. I would get

2C3E Lambda bank 2 code.

I replaced cylinder 5 Injector (fouled plug)
All 6 plugs
and bank 2 precat o2 sensor.
I have more injectors on order to replace 4 + 6 injectors and new plugs, for safe measure for those injectors.

If the new injectors do not work, I am out of ideas. I am not getting rich or lean codes, just misfires. For some o2 sensors fixed it, and for others it was injectors. I just really hope it's not my DME, but we'll see.

When I had a leak on the turbo intake pipe I got the code:

2ADF idle control.

My mechanic smoke tested the car and found the leak. He reattached the pipe and re secured it and I have not received that error since.

At this point I am praying for the new injectors to help out on my warm misfires.

My Mods:

Rev 2.5 procede
DCI's
FlexFuel Kit with secondary pump
running 100% E85.

At WOT, the car rips, it's just these misfires which are killing the experience.

Here's the interesting thing, after the car misfires shakes and loses all power. I pull over. Recycle the car and everything works great for another 30-45 mins, sometimes longer. There is no rhyme or reason for the misfires, the only consistencies are that it's only at higher loads low RPM and at stoplights AFTER the car is warm (been driving for at least 20-30 minutes)

Geez, sorry to hear it. That would drive me batty. My OCD nature makes it very unsettling when things don't run right and I don't know what to do to fix them. I read a thread about early DMEs being an issue...I think these were '07s in a specific build month...maybe march? GL though and keep up posted. Flex fuel kit for me in the spring

EDIT: do these happen with procede out on stock tune as well? Walnut shell blasting done? (I'm sure you've tried these...)

[joec500]

Originally Posted by sickem

Geez, sorry to hear it. That would drive me batty. My OCD nature makes it very unsettling when things don't run right and I don't know what to do to fix them. I read a thread about early DMEs being an issue...I think these were '07s in a specific build month...maybe march? GL though and keep up posted. Flex fuel kit for me in the spring

EDIT: do these happen with procede out on stock tune as well? Walnut shell blasting done? (I'm sure you've tried these...)

Stock Tune Map 0 tends to be ok.

I did a walnut shell blast 2k miles ago at my local dealer.

And I am OCD with my car too, and I have spent the last two nights researching EVERYTHING! I just swapped coilpacks from Bank 2 to Bank 1, to see if they are the culprit. I have one injector arriving tomorrow, so hopefully it's my Injector in Cylinder 6, since it had a fouled plug during my last plug swap and yes I have INPA working and can code my new injectors.

Fingers Crossed.

I really hope it's not the ECU, technically it's covered under 80k Mile Emmissions warranty, but I am not getting the 30BB error, which is an internal ECU error. Also my ECU does not fall in the ECU recall (I think june - Aug 07 build) mine is an 11/06 build.

[joec500]

UPDATE:

To rule out coil packs, I swapped bank 2 with bank 1, hoping to see the misfires move from one bank to another. I got the car up to operating temps, drove on the highway on higher load in 5th, a couple of hard runs. then exiting a few times to idle, hoping to throw a misfire. Then I idled for 5+mins which always cause misfires, I had maybe 1-2 putters, but nothing unreasonable.

While swapping coil packs, I noticed that a couple of coil packs on my bank 2 cylinder looked a little high, i.e. they were not seated completely. I THINK the issue has been resolved and explains why the misfires were so sporadic and random. If the coil pack is 1-2mm off the plug, I would assume it's like having a loose wire connection. Sometimes it works and some times it doesn't. I praying that this is the issue, but the car is running super strong without ANY misfires. I will take it out one more time tonight after the San Francisco traffic dies down from winning some baseball game

Now I need to figure what to do with a set of brand new injectors. And I think I replaced my o2 sensor today for no reason...ehhhhh chalk them up for learning experiences, and I have feeling that these injectors will come in handy eventually, as i plan on keeping this car till it dies.

This could also explain how many people have misfires after plug changes, They may not fully seat their Coil Packs. I assume the tolerances are so tight that they really need to be fully seated is order to operate as their supposed to.

[joec500]

Also another update for people who stumble on this Thread.

If you have higher mileage on your O2's, the sensors should be replaced in pairs. I have one sensor with 60k Miles and one with a few hundred miles. When Shiv observed their response through the Procede User Software, he noticed one was much more responsive than the other, which he said could cause Fuel Mixture errors and sure enough, my car made those errors, replacing my Bank 1 sensor this weekend to match my Bank 2.

[JamesM3M5]

I have been tracking down the same low load misfires for a while now, and I think it could simply be a handful of little problems adding up. I've seen many cars here at my shop with cylinder 5 misfires, among others. But 5 is most prevalent.

As these cars age and lose value, people will not be taking as good care of them unless they're enthusiasts. This includes oil quality and service interval, intake cleanings, and spark plug changes.

So on my quest to eliminate any sort of misfire, whether stock or tuned, I have done all of the following with varying levels of smoothness and improvement in power and all around driveability:

1) Spark plugs - Any misfire should almost always be first treated with new plugs. BMW service interval is 47k miles, but if you're tuned, count on 25k max if you're lucky.

2) Intake cleaning - Carbon buildup can get extremely thick and hinder performance drastically. While carbon buildup does not cause misfiring per se, it can lead to other conditions that trigger rough running and poor performance.

3) Fresh pre-cat O2 sensors every 50k miles - These are Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband sensors. They don't work 100% perfectly forever, and a pair costs the DIY mechanic about $200 and a hour and a half of work. Retail on this job is much much more at a shop, and forget about dealer prices!

4) Surprisingly enough, clean the two MAP sensors. The one inside the intake manifold is subject to the same carbon buildup, and after I cleaned mine, the low load misfires were almost completely eliminated.

5) Proper PCV system operation - The PCV system includes two passages from the crankcase to the intake. One passage is easily visible once the engine cover is off. It is at the back of the valve cover and dumps into the rear turbo suction pipe. It is unregulated in flow except for 4 small swirl pots built into the underside of the cover to help remove liquid oil in the vapors before being sucked into the rear turbo and blown into the entire pressurized intake system. There is a small one way door flap that shuts (but only blocks about 90%) when the diverter valves blow back into the intake. There is also a heater element to prevent liquid water and oil vapor mixing and sludging up the pipe. This is the passage where people install oil catch cans. The second passage is a channel inside the valve cover that runs to each individual intake port in the head. It is regulated by a questionably effective one way PCV valve. The valve shuts against boost pressure but allows the intake to pull crankcase vapors relatively unrestricted from the oil separators inside the valve cover when the manifold is under vacuum - any time the throttle is almost completely closed. I have cleaned my valve cover thoroughly inside and out with heavy degreaser and a pressure washer, replaced the VC gasket, and used a high quality sealant between the gasket, head, and cover where those PCV passages reside. For customer cars, I recommend complete valve cover replacement if they have an excessive amount of liquid oil coming from the PCV intake ports. I strongly believe that this oil causes fouling inside cylinder 5 the most, due to the design and shape of the PCV channel inside the valve cover.

And as a case-by-case evaluation, you may need one or more injectors and/or coils replaced. Coils typically break down and misfire under high load or high RPM. Injectors cause poor startup, soot covered spark plugs due to poor atomization or leakage, or other misfires that plugs and coils don't cure. I replaced all 6 injectors, which appeared to be either original or an earlier iteration, and it only moderately reduced my misfire problems.

[stride007]

So today i replaced the o2 on Bank2 with a 17098, reason for replacement was a P0050 - Heater control circuit SES. After install of the new o2 i got a check engine light and the fan comes on soon as the car is started - also think i went limp. I was unable to clear the code because i just purchased the car (stock) and didnt have an obd2 available to use today- i am *hoping* the lingering code is the reason.. any thoughts or info greatly appreciated!

[DR-JEKL]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I have been tracking down the same low load misfires for a while now, and I think it could simply be a handful of little problems adding up. I've seen many cars here at my shop with cylinder 5 misfires, among others. But 5 is most prevalent.

As these cars age and lose value, people will not be taking as good care of them unless they're enthusiasts. This includes oil quality and service interval, intake cleanings, and spark plug changes.

So on my quest to eliminate any sort of misfire, whether stock or tuned, I have done all of the following with varying levels of smoothness and improvement in power and all around driveability:

1) Spark plugs - Any misfire should almost always be first treated with new plugs. BMW service interval is 47k miles, but if you're tuned, count on 25k max if you're lucky.

2) Intake cleaning - Carbon buildup can get extremely thick and hinder performance drastically. While carbon buildup does not cause misfiring per se, it can lead to other conditions that trigger rough running and poor performance.

3) Fresh pre-cat O2 sensors every 50k miles - These are Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband sensors. They don't work 100% perfectly forever, and a pair costs the DIY mechanic about $200 and a hour and a half of work. Retail on this job is much much more at a shop, and forget about dealer prices!

4) Surprisingly enough, clean the two MAP sensors. The one inside the intake manifold is subject to the same carbon buildup, and after I cleaned mine, the low load misfires were almost completely eliminated.

5) Proper PCV system operation - The PCV system includes two passages from the crankcase to the intake. One passage is easily visible once the engine cover is off. It is at the back of the valve cover and dumps into the rear turbo suction pipe. It is unregulated in flow except for 4 small swirl pots built into the underside of the cover to help remove liquid oil in the vapors before being sucked into the rear turbo and blown into the entire pressurized intake system. There is a small one way door flap that shuts (but only blocks about 90%) when the diverter valves blow back into the intake. There is also a heater element to prevent liquid water and oil vapor mixing and sludging up the pipe. This is the passage where people install oil catch cans. The second passage is a channel inside the valve cover that runs to each individual intake port in the head. It is regulated by a questionably effective one way PCV valve. The valve shuts against boost pressure but allows the intake to pull crankcase vapors relatively unrestricted from the oil separators inside the valve cover when the manifold is under vacuum - any time the throttle is almost completely closed. I have cleaned my valve cover thoroughly inside and out with heavy degreaser and a pressure washer, replaced the VC gasket, and used a high quality sealant between the gasket, head, and cover where those PCV passages reside. For customer cars, I recommend complete valve cover replacement if they have an excessive amount of liquid oil coming from the PCV intake ports. I strongly believe that this oil causes fouling inside cylinder 5 the most, due to the design and shape of the PCV channel inside the valve cover.

And as a case-by-case evaluation, you may need one or more injectors and/or coils replaced. Coils typically break down and misfire under high load or high RPM. Injectors cause poor startup, soot covered spark plugs due to poor atomization or leakage, or other misfires that plugs and coils don't cure. I replaced all 6 injectors, which appeared to be either original or an earlier iteration, and it only moderately reduced my misfire problems.

This is a great informative post!

I have had stumbling issues at low throttle ever since i bought the car about 9 months ago.

It had a full logbook service just before i bought it at bmw (all fluids plugs filters etc) I recently changed the coils, which was a slight improvement, then done an oil change with a slight improvement and then the other night spark plugs. Whilst my plugs had only done 5k miles and still looked great the car feels a lot better on low throttle with next to no stumbling at all.

I had a 2C3E & 2C2E codes today which I believe relate to my bank 2 precat o2 sensors but no misfires which is good. Since I had precat bank 2 sensor fault codes in the past i had ordered a set of bosch 17098 sensors is this an easy DIY replacement?

I'm also planning on changing vanos solenoids and valve cover gasket with an intake clean shortly.

[DR-JEKL]

Bump?

[dh5379]

Hey,
Does anyone know if the computer has to be put in adaptation mode when replacing the O2 sensors? Seems like my fuel mileage has gone down dramatically after the dealer replaced my pre-cat O2 bank 2 defective sensor.

When asked if the computer was put in adaptation mode the service advisor told me that it would adapt over 90 starts. That seems quite odd.

Thanks, David

[JamesM3M5]

As for an easy DIY, it depends on your definition of easy. I have a shop with lifts, so I was able to get under and on top of the engine easily and quickly. You will need a 22mm wrench. An O2 sensor socket may not work, and you don't want to kink or damage the sheathing coming directly off the sensor. The free-air reference comes from the sheathing, so any damage to that corrugated portion can render the sensor unusable. I have stock DPs, so your experience will vary if you have aftermarket DPs.

I removed the lower belly pan and was able to unscrew the sensors with the 22mm wrench. At 56k miles, they weren't terribly seized in place. If that's the case, you could be slightly screwed. You will also have to remove the cabin air intake, the cowl on the firewall, and the top engine cover to access the wiring path and connectors. They reside on the intake side of the valve cover. The connector closer to the front of the engine is bank 1 sensor, and the connector closer to the rear is for bank 2. Label your sensors so you don't mix them up! Pay attention to the routing of the wires and clips along the edges of the valve cover, and wrap up the extra 8 inches or so of wire for the rear sensor and clip it in place with the factory loom clips that are right next to the bank 2 connector.

On your back with the car on ramps or jack stands will take probably about 2 hours. On a lift it may take 1-1.5 hrs.

I would recommend clearing adaptations after this to speed up the relearning process. It is not required, but may be helpful in giving you more instant gratification. Fire the engine up and let it idle for a minute to clear the cold start program, then drive normally. I'd avoid long full throttle pulls if you're tuned for a day or so to make sure the adaptations are reset.

[DR-JEKL]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

As for an easy DIY, it depends on your definition of easy. I have a shop with lifts, so I was able to get under and on top of the engine easily and quickly. You will need a 22mm wrench. An O2 sensor socket may not work, and you don't want to kink or damage the sheathing coming directly off the sensor. The free-air reference comes from the sheathing, so any damage to that corrugated portion can render the sensor unusable. I have stock DPs, so your experience will vary if you have aftermarket DPs.

I removed the lower belly pan and was able to unscrew the sensors with the 22mm wrench. At 56k miles, they weren't terribly seized in place. If that's the case, you could be slightly screwed. You will also have to remove the cabin air intake, the cowl on the firewall, and the top engine cover to access the wiring path and connectors. They reside on the intake side of the valve cover. The connector closer to the front of the engine is bank 1 sensor, and the connector closer to the rear is for bank 2. Label your sensors so you don't mix them up! Pay attention to the routing of the wires and clips along the edges of the valve cover, and wrap up the extra 8 inches or so of wire for the rear sensor and clip it in place with the factory loom clips that are right next to the bank 2 connector.

On your back with the car on ramps or jack stands will take probably about 2 hours. On a lift it may take 1-1.5 hrs.

I would recommend clearing adaptations after this to speed up the relearning process. It is not required, but may be helpful in giving you more instant gratification. Fire the engine up and let it idle for a minute to clear the cold start program, then drive normally. I'd avoid long full throttle pulls if you're tuned for a day or so to make sure the adaptations are reset.

Thanks, I ended up taking my car to a shop (RHD is much more difficult) but thanks to your advice i used the bosch 17098 sensors.

I was getting a stumbling issue in 4th gear at low revs (1500-2000rpm) and in 2nd gear also.

After the O2 sensors were installed, the car seemed to change in the fact that it was stumbling at different revs... I let the car sit for a few days, then the next time I drove it, it was fantastic and buttery smooth with no hesitations and stumbling (it has been fine all week now)

So it appears that this has rectified my issue, and I was getting frustrated as when I would jump out of my car & drive my missus's corolla it felt much nicer to drive in terms of smoothness at low revs

[IN54NITY]

Bumping an old thread but I don't care. This is sticky material. Thanks a million JamesM3M5.

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I have been tracking down the same low load misfires for a while now, and I think it could simply be a handful of little problems adding up. I've seen many cars here at my shop with cylinder 5 misfires, among others. But 5 is most prevalent.

As these cars age and lose value, people will not be taking as good care of them unless they're enthusiasts. This includes oil quality and service interval, intake cleanings, and spark plug changes.

So on my quest to eliminate any sort of misfire, whether stock or tuned, I have done all of the following with varying levels of smoothness and improvement in power and all around driveability:

1) Spark plugs - Any misfire should almost always be first treated with new plugs. BMW service interval is 47k miles, but if you're tuned, count on 25k max if you're lucky.

2) Intake cleaning - Carbon buildup can get extremely thick and hinder performance drastically. While carbon buildup does not cause misfiring per se, it can lead to other conditions that trigger rough running and poor performance.

3) Fresh pre-cat O2 sensors every 50k miles - These are Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband sensors. They don't work 100% perfectly forever, and a pair costs the DIY mechanic about $200 and a hour and a half of work. Retail on this job is much much more at a shop, and forget about dealer prices!

4) Surprisingly enough, clean the two MAP sensors. The one inside the intake manifold is subject to the same carbon buildup, and after I cleaned mine, the low load misfires were almost completely eliminated.

5) Proper PCV system operation - The PCV system includes two passages from the crankcase to the intake. One passage is easily visible once the engine cover is off. It is at the back of the valve cover and dumps into the rear turbo suction pipe. It is unregulated in flow except for 4 small swirl pots built into the underside of the cover to help remove liquid oil in the vapors before being sucked into the rear turbo and blown into the entire pressurized intake system. There is a small one way door flap that shuts (but only blocks about 90%) when the diverter valves blow back into the intake. There is also a heater element to prevent liquid water and oil vapor mixing and sludging up the pipe. This is the passage where people install oil catch cans. The second passage is a channel inside the valve cover that runs to each individual intake port in the head. It is regulated by a questionably effective one way PCV valve. The valve shuts against boost pressure but allows the intake to pull crankcase vapors relatively unrestricted from the oil separators inside the valve cover when the manifold is under vacuum - any time the throttle is almost completely closed. I have cleaned my valve cover thoroughly inside and out with heavy degreaser and a pressure washer, replaced the VC gasket, and used a high quality sealant between the gasket, head, and cover where those PCV passages reside. For customer cars, I recommend complete valve cover replacement if they have an excessive amount of liquid oil coming from the PCV intake ports. I strongly believe that this oil causes fouling inside cylinder 5 the most, due to the design and shape of the PCV channel inside the valve cover.

And as a case-by-case evaluation, you may need one or more injectors and/or coils replaced. Coils typically break down and misfire under high load or high RPM. Injectors cause poor startup, soot covered spark plugs due to poor atomization or leakage, or other misfires that plugs and coils don't cure. I replaced all 6 injectors, which appeared to be either original or an earlier iteration, and it only moderately reduced my misfire problems.

Originally Posted by aleckzandr

Bumping an old thread but I don't care. This is sticky material. Thanks a million JamesM3M5.

Agreed.

Good stuff in here!

[JamesM3M5]

Glad to help out. Bad news I've seen more recently is a few cars where others have left out the damn decoupler ring on new injectors. They bounce around inside the head and wear down the bore until they can no longer seal up. You need a new head or a machine shop to drill out and install a sleeve in the injector bore - questionable at best.

[IN54NITY]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I have been tracking down the same low load misfires for a while now, and I think it could simply be a handful of little problems adding up. I've seen many cars here at my shop with cylinder 5 misfires, among others. But 5 is most prevalent.
...
...

Here's what my #5 cylinder intake used to look like. Pic taken at 50k miles. Car drives like new again after the walnut blast. It's like the car has cut away a ball and chain. I haven't replaced the pre-cat O2 sensors yet, though they're sitting on my kitchen table waiting... My stinky opinion is putting any engine performance mod on an N54/N55 with more than 45k that hasn't had a walnut blast is like putting lipstick on a pig.