[dL_EVO]

Originally Posted by JonDiesel

when driving a gas car (where power band is highest at high rpm) you should be high rpm at an apex. on the diesel, you should not be at a high rpm on an apex. you should be around 2000-3000 so that you are in optimal powerband then you can rocket out of the corner, and shift when you are straight again.
Oh and this is a Bmw, it's not going to suddenly lose control especially because of something the car decided to do. the power transition between gears is pretty smooth. just don't turn off that dsc

What does this being a BMW have to do with anything?

[ihbase]

On the subject of transmissions: BMW insists that the diesel has too much torque for a manual transmission and yet I noticed that the new M5 (with more torque than a 335d) is available with a manual transmission. While I like the car, it is so close to perfect to be totally irritating. An oil temp gauge, a manual transmission and greater stability over 135 mph would make this car perfect.

Your thoughts about the manual trans being available behind the high-torque M5 motor and not behind the 3.0 diesel motor?

-Michael

[bimmerdiesel]

Originally Posted by ihbase

On the subject of transmissions: BMW insists that the diesel has too much torque for a manual transmission and yet I noticed that the new M5 (with more torque than a 335d) is available with a manual transmission.

M5 base is 90k and if something goes wrong owners/BMW can afford to replace. But for a car that costs half M5 price it is not good decision. As a owner if you are told you can have MT but in case u screw it up be ready to spend additional 15k I doubt any of MT drivers would come any close to 335d MT.

[ihbase]

Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel

M5 base is 90k and if something goes wrong owners/BMW can afford to replace. But for a car that costs half M5 price it is not good decision. As a owner if you are told you can have MT but in case u screw it up be ready to spend additional 15k I doubt any of MT drivers would come any close to 335d MT.

I see where you are going. But I suspect that BMW is not building M5s with the expectation that they are going to be swapping out transmissions. Further, powertrain protection software is pretty common in many industries. The software functions by limiting engine torque in lower gears where the entire driveline would be susceptible to failure from high torque inputs. I see no reason why that software could not be deployed here to make the manual transmission idiot proof.

My hunch is that BMW stuck with the auto-only option in the 3.0 diesel application because the trans is better suited to the characteristics of modern turbocharged diesels. As much as I hate the transmission, it does enable gearshifts without the loss of boost pressure. Constant boost between gears makes the auto diesel faster (I'm guessing) than an otherwise identical manual diesel because there is no lag while the turbos spool back up between each gearshift. And perhaps this is less of concern in turbocharged gasoline applications because those motors do not fall on their face without boost pressure as badly as diesel engines do.


But I am totally guessing to the motives of BMW here- I do not know anything.

-Michael

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Great write up guys, my question is why then , do the European DIESELS yes our beloved I6 3 liter M57 DIESEL are manual tranny overthere? my answer is that people on this side DONT KNOW how to drive them, No pun intended but that is a FACT!!!

BMW will NOT risk any PR issue with their customers I firmly beleive in this, being the premier selling market they will not risk it.

[GreekboyD]

I've heard that the 335d is also not available in a manual transmission over in Europe.

[anielsen71]

@GreekboyD
You are right about the 335d in europe only available with aut.
And for some reason we also only get the aut. version of the M5 and not the MT version.
I don't understand it. As I know the US market, it's much more common that you drive aut. than here in europe. And here we don't get the manual version.......beats me....

[bimmerdiesel]

335d is not offered with MT anywhere in world

[Puerto Rican 335d]

duh I guess I was wrong then we are all screwed!!

[bimmerdiesel]

Originally Posted by ihbase

But I am totally guessing to the motives of BMW here- I do not know anything.

-Michael

I am also guessing. But I feel technology is not defining factor for these decisions it is usually market analyst who guide what engine/transmission to be offered. It boils down to will market accept a combination!!
I think its known fact that 335d didnt do very well in North America market but their sole motive wasnt to sell lot of 335d's. They wanted to have test bed for their SCR/NOx/DEF system so that they can be bulletproof when its time to introduce in EU. Also they are already covering up all their RnD expenses/losses incurred for introducing 335ds in US by sharing their diesel expertise to Toyota. I always wondered if they were serious about selling diesels in America cox of no advertising. Right now I see F30 ad atleast once a day and way back when you could order 335d there wasnt a single ad for diesel technology except for last year super bowl

[anielsen71]

Personally I would LOVE if they offered the DCT box to other models than the E9x M cars and very few E92 335i cars.
I have played a little with the plan of finding a used DCT box and fit it to my 330d. And I know it will be some job to fit it. Both mechanical and the code part......

[ihbase]

Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel

I am also guessing. But I feel technology is not defining factor for these decisions it is usually market analyst who guide what engine/transmission to be offered. It boils down to will market accept a combination!!

Yeah... I think that is a very good point. And sadly the market tends to generate more products with the character of a Camry and Ms with automatics. The 335d does suffer pretty badly from market considerations - the lack of any data related to engine performance comes to mind (eng coolant temp, engine oil temp, boost). The steering is too light at speed and the car becomes unstable over 135. So the car has been refined toward the market and away from the ultimate driving machine. This is unfortunate because it feels like a sound platform.

I like your comments regarding BMW diesel market strategy. I too am wondering what BMW will do next with the US diesel market. If the 3.0 is available only in the SUV, then the 335d might be the last high power diesel in a US market BMW sedan. It looks like a 2.0 is on tap for economy. The Euro-spec 3.0 diesel is supposedly "new" which makes me wonder what they changed. Emissions technology? Internals?

It seems that the economics are now working against diesels in the US market- the fuel savings are insufficient to pay the diesel premium- both the premium purchase price and now the premium at the pump. Perhaps this calculus is informing BMWs US diesel strategy.

-ms

[bimmerdiesel]

Originally Posted by ihbase

I like your comments regarding BMW diesel market strategy. I too am wondering what BMW will do next with the US diesel market. If the 3.0 is available only in the SUV, then the 335d might be the last high power diesel in a US market BMW sedan. It looks like a 2.0 is on tap for economy. The Euro-spec 3.0 diesel is supposedly "new" which makes me wonder what they changed. Emissions technology? Internals?

-ms

Not sure about 335d because there is no F30 335d even in EU right now but we should get 330d. It will be similar to E90 335 in performance. If all is well I plan to upgrade myself to F30 330d or FXX X1 30d as soon as they are available. I dont know if I could live with 320d or 325d.
Abt fuel prices I think as soon as elections are over we will see diesel cheaper than regular gas. There is no way they can contain gas prices so low anymore.