[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

I don't know about 60, on my stock car i picked up 30whp.

I'm reference Dyno's from Cobb directly. 30WHP sounds abnormally low. All of the popular tunes get 60-70WHP Jb4, Procede, and Cobb.

You can get a good 30-40WHP with a JB+.

Of course if you are high elevation, or have poor fuel your results will be less.

[idrift4wd]

Idk, the price for cobb is just not justifiable.

yes its "easy" to install, but what kinda car enthusiast are you if you never work on your car. Most people on here know for jb4 or procede the bang for the buck is just more worth it. it Can be installed within 10-15 minutes (same time for cobb) and the results are better then cobb and the features you get alone are better then cobb also.

OTS maps are better, on the fly map switching, Auto-tune, Meth maps, customizable maps, Can-bus (gauge hi-jacking, the whole menu interface).

Cobb take about 10 minutes to install/change maps plus having the chance of your battery dying when installing. cobb stage 0-1 or 1+ sport/aggressive is weak. Only thing you should be looking it is their race maps.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

Idk, the price for cobb is just not justifiable.

yes its "easy" to install, but what kinda car enthusiast are you if you never work on your car. Most people on here know for jb4 or procede the bang for the buck is just more worth it. it Can be installed within 10-15 minutes (same time for cobb) and the results are better then cobb and the features you get alone are better then cobb also.

OTS maps are better, on the fly map switching, Auto-tune, Meth maps, customizable maps, Can-bus (gauge hi-jacking, the whole menu interface).

Cobb take about 10 minutes to install/change maps plus having the chance of your battery dying when installing. cobb stage 0-1 or 1+ sport/aggressive is weak. Only thing you should be looking it is their race maps.

Horseshit. I'm sorry, but I keep reading your posts and you have little understanding of the N54/any engine and it's operation. Any and all tunes the tunes make similar power given the same boost, timing, fueling and VANOS mapping.

Stage 0 is "weak" because it's the fucking stock map.
Stage 1 is designed for a 100% stock car(there are different versions for different fuel types on all Cobb stages)
Stage 1+ is a fairly peppy tune but it's not designed for a FBO+meth/e85 setup so it's not going to be comparable to a more aggressive tune.
Ohh, and takes ~45 seconds to swap maps.

Only "real" car enthusiests use piggybacks? Have you ever actually seen ATR/ATP? Damn, I guess ECU table remapping is only for amateurs. I didn't know HPtuners, Diablo and SCT were all NOOBs to tuning

I'm not knocking any of the other tunes(if he had been knocking JB4 or PROcede in a similar fashion I would probably be saying the exact same thing) they're great and all make similar power(like I said) but when you keep seeing uninformed asshats bash things they have no clue about then it's hard to bite your tongue.

[idrift4wd]

Originally Posted by Ænema

Horseshit. I'm sorry, but I keep reading your posts and you have little understanding of the N54/any engine and it's operation. Any and all tunes the tunes make similar power given the same boost, timing, fueling and VANOS mapping.

Stage 0 is "weak" because it's the fucking stock map.
Stage 1 is designed for a 100% stock car(there are different versions for different fuel types on all Cobb stages)
Stage 1+ is a fairly peppy tune but it's not designed for a FBO+meth/e85 setup so it's not going to be comparable to a more aggressive tune.
Ohh, and takes ~45 seconds to swap maps.

Only "real" car enthusiests use piggybacks? Have you ever actually seen ATR/ATP? Damn, I guess ECU table remapping is only for amateurs. I didn't know HPtuners, Diablo and SCT were all NOOBs to tuning

I'm not knocking any of the other tunes(if he had been knocking JB4 or PROcede in a similar fashion I would probably be saying the exact same thing) they're great and all make similar power(like I said) but when you keep seeing uninformed asshats bash things they have no clue about then it's hard to bite your tongue.

LOL You're an idiot and illiterate. A real car enthusiast will WANT to work on their car. Not someone who bring their car into the shop for everything (like a girl/ warranty work is different). where in my post did i say a real car enthusiast uses a piggyback? LOL

to install the cobb it does NOT take 45 seconds. from mod bargains post "to mention that the COBB AP does allow for you to do live data logging, trouble shoot and scan codes, and of course switch maps on the fly as well! Installation is simple and it literally takes 10 minutes to download your stock map to the COBB AP and 8-10 minutes to flash your car to the stage 1 map."

jb4 map 1 will obliterate cobb stage 1 or 1+. plus map 5 on jb4 will probably shit on cobbs stage 1-2 maps. again. NO METH OR e85 maps. OTS cobbs (e30+ maps) are not as good as jb4 auto tune or procedes auto tune.

Cobb is just not impressive. But cool and easy for the lazy fucks. You act like i get this information out of the air. Ive ran cobb'ed cars and raped them and i had less mods and a jb3 at that! dude then sold it for a jb4. He was much happier.

You can get good results with cobb, its just that jb4 and procede can get those numbers while doing ALOT more things the cobb cant. The device is impressive.

ive seen stage 1 cobb dynos and it doesnt put out the power a procede or jb4 can.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

LOL You're an idiot and illiterate. A real car enthusiast will WANT to work on their car. Not someone who bring their car into the shop for everything (like a girl/ warranty work is different). where in my post did i say a real car enthusiast uses a piggyback? LOL

to install the cobb it does NOT take 45 seconds. from mod bargains post "to mention that the COBB AP does allow for you to do live data logging, trouble shoot and scan codes, and of course switch maps on the fly as well! Installation is simple and it literally takes 10 minutes to download your stock map to the COBB AP and 8-10 minutes to flash your car to the stage 1 map."

jb4 map 1 will obliterate cobb stage 1 or 1+. plus map 5 on jb4 will probably shit on cobbs stage 1-2 maps. again. NO METH OR e85 maps. OTS cobbs (e30+ maps) are not as good as jb4 auto tune or procedes auto tune.

Cobb is just not impressive. But cool and easy for the lazy fucks. You act like i get this information out of the air. Ive ran cobb'ed cars and raped them and i had less mods and a jb3 at that! dude then sold it for a jb4. He was much happier.

You can get good results with cobb, its just that jb4 and procede can get those numbers while doing ALOT more things the cobb cant. The device is impressive.

ive seen stage 1 cobb dynos and it doesnt put out the power a procede or jb4 can.

"Lazy fucks"? Haha, because you can easily install a product you have to be lazy? So, if I had to cut into the wiring harness would the Cobb then be a better tool?

Again, I ask HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR USED ATR? It is a VERY in-depth and well developed tuning tool that is constantly being improved. Yes, the AP installs in about 10 minutes but only takes about 45 seconds to swap maps. When used properly the AP can make just as much power as ANY tune. In fact, since it retains the load targeting logic(rather than boost targeting) it actually takes a little more in-depth tweaking to tune.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

jb4 map 1 will obliterate cobb stage 1 or 1+. plus map 5 on jb4 will probably shit on cobbs stage 1-2 maps. again. NO METH OR e85 maps. OTS cobbs (e30+ maps) are not as good as jb4 auto tune or procedes auto tune.

Cobb is just not impressive. But cool and easy for the lazy fucks. You act like i get this information out of the air. Ive ran cobb'ed cars and raped them and i had less mods and a jb3 at that! dude then sold it for a jb4. He was much happier.

You can get good results with cobb, its just that jb4 and procede can get those numbers while doing ALOT more things the cobb cant. The device is impressive.

ive seen stage 1 cobb dynos and it doesnt put out the power a procede or jb4 can.

You're a fool. There's nothing to brag about if a piggy is beating an OTS SHELF Map COBB car. The ONLY place that the piggys really shine is boost controlling (which can easily be addressed by changing the TMAP sensor) and meth/NOS controlling (which should actually be done completely independent from your tune). There's a reason why all the BIG horsepower cars run flash or stand alones & NOT piggys.

The fact that BMS & Vishnu have both started releasing flashes for their tunes when people hit FBO performance. Ironically enough (you as a BMS/JB4 supporter) should be grateful that COBB exists as Terry has started releasing COBB base maps to stack with his JB4 tune to address fueling/timing needs that the JB4 cannot resolve independently.

And if you're gonna call COBB users lazy, then maybe we should start calling piggy users idiots for being dependent on AutoTune to fine tune your performance. Meanwhile, COBB users use their knowledge on tuning the N54 and ATR to full extrapolate the power of the N54.

By the way, here's an E90 335 COBB (camera car) vs 135 JB4 (guess who wins every time):

[idrift4wd]

Originally Posted by Ænema

"Lazy fucks"? Haha, because you can easily install a product you have to be lazy? So, if I had to cut into the wiring harness would the Cobb then be a better tool?

Again, I ask HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR USED ATR? It is a VERY in-depth and well developed tuning tool that is constantly being improved. Yes, the AP installs in about 10 minutes but only takes about 45 seconds to swap maps. When used properly the AP can make just as much power as ANY tune. In fact, since it retains the load targeting logic(rather than boost targeting) it actually takes a little more in-depth tweaking to tune.

im not saying it cant make the power. Im glad cobb released their protuning kit for custom tunes. im sure their tuners that will try to make the most it can. But lets face it thats even more money! It lacks the features that a piggybacks have. Piggybacks are normally cheaper, can provide enough power, and have the capability to adapt/auto tune (meth/racegas/ethanol/nos)

YOU WANNA POST RACE VIDEO OF PIGGYBACKS VS COBB???

im pretty sure most or all upgraded turbos/meth/e85 are running a piggyback.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

im not saying it cant make the power. Im glad cobb released their protuning kit for custom tunes. im sure their tuners that will try to make the most it can. But lets face it thats even more money! It lacks the features that a piggybacks have. Piggybacks are normally cheaper, can provide enough power, and have the capability to adapt/auto tune (meth/racegas/ethanol/nos)

YOU WANNA POST RACE VIDEO OF PIGGYBACKS VS COBB???

im pretty sure most or all upgraded turbos/meth/e85 are running a piggyback.

What about how the world record twin turbo HP car is running Cobb?

Also, ATR is free. So anyone that's hands on can develop their own custom mapping for absolutely no additional cost.

[ragingpanda]

Different strokes for different folks. Lets all get along now.

[Timore]

Had both, COBB is the way to go. IMO

Just not a fan of the whole piggyback concept. Just installed my ETS FMIC last week and now im running stage 2+ until it can get it protuned. And I found a gas station that sells 100oct around here! I started with just the COBB AP then caught the mod bug... be careful its contagious!

[zeenon53]

I was running 93 octane. This is stock vs stage 1 tune only. I was a bit disappointed with the results to say the least.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by idrift4wd

im pretty sure most or all upgraded turbos/meth/e85 are running a piggyback.

Like I said, Terry's been using COBB as a Base Flash for his car with RBs. Shiv has the Vishnu Flash on his TT cars & is required for the Single Turbo Kits. And then we have Dzenno (PTF) who just set the N54 TT record at 555 / 635.

Originally Posted by Timore

Had both, COBB is the way to go. IMO

Just not a fan of the whole piggyback concept. Just installed my ETS FMIC last week and now im running stage 2+ until it can get it protuned. And I found a gas station that sells 100oct around here! I started with just the COBB AP then caught the mod bug... be careful its contagious!

Congrats on COBB, your ETS FMIC & your 335is. Where in Bergen are you & that gas station? I only know of 1 gas station in NJ nearby that sells 100 octane, otherwise I'm off to South Jersey/Philly area And for ProTuning, I'd highly recommend that if you can find the time to get Jake to do it in-person. He'll be able to explain any adjustments he makes & offer his recommendations.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

I was running 93 octane. This is stock vs stage 1 tune only. I was a bit disappointed with the results to say the least.

Which map was that? Aggressive?(I see you said you were running 93 I just want to be sure)
How did your datalogs look? Were you throwing any codes?

[VNeBLOB42]

[zeenon53]

Originally Posted by Ænema

Which map was that? Aggressive?(I see you said you were running 93 I just want to be sure)
How did your datalogs look? Were you throwing any codes?

Logs looked fine, no codes, stage 1 aggressive. I know the dyno reads low compared to others. But the delta is what's important and it's not what it should be. I've been working with dzenno@PTF doing a custom stage 2+ tune and should be back on the dyno in a week.

[hellomyBMW]

I've noticed that most, if not majority people on this thread are vouching for COBB tuning over JB4 tuning. Besides easy installation/flash, may I ask why you have chosen COBB tuning?
1. After installing/flash COBB tuning, what was your numbers? Specifically on a 335is?
2. How are the COBB maps compared to JB4 maps? (User experience)

I am trying to decide if I should go with COBB or JB4 and this will help me decide...

Thanks!

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by hellomyBMW

I've noticed that most, if not majority people on this thread are vouching for COBB tuning over JB4 tuning. Besides easy installation/flash, may I ask why you have chosen COBB tuning?
1. After installing/flash COBB tuning, what was your numbers? Specifically on a 335is?
2. How are the COBB maps compared to JB4 maps? (User experience)

I am trying to decide if I should go with COBB or JB4 and this will help me decide...

Thanks!

I believe you are the point where it's up to you, essentially user preference. If you wanna go pro tune down the road the COBB makes it easier but I believe there is equal satisfaction between both. All depends on who you talk to.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by Bimmer07

I am in the same situtaion. Just tune (cobb preferable) and no other mods. Is it safe to go with Cobb and 91 octane ? Because I'm in Cali and I havent seen any gasstations here offering anything above that. And would I stillget 60WHP?

Hey what's up SoCal. @AEenma is correct, I have done testing with E85 pump with ACN 91. Unfortunately COBB Sport and Agg. is too aggressive for ACN 91, according to my testing. To run S1 Sport and Agg. Blend in 20% E85 pump then you can.

Take a look at the timing corrections graphs, these were based upon my logs and testing.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696472

The pros out weigh the cons. I use propel fuel E85, good quality and there are a couple near the LA area. I wouldn't mix in more than 25% you will begin to exceed your fuel trims. Or you can use ATR to adjust, but you'll be fine if under 25% E85 pump and or with the proper tune MAPs.

Enjoy, S1 Agg.

Edit

Remember, 20% E85 (3.2 gallons) is not 20% Ethanol. Use this calculator. To compare apples to apples, E85 is about 96 AKI octane. To 91 AKI ACN octane.
http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

[hellomyBMW]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

I believe you are the point where it's up to you, essentially user preference. If you wanna go pro tune down the road the COBB makes it easier but I believe there is equal satisfaction between both. All depends on who you talk to.

Thanks for your input.
However, I have not seen any advantages/disadvantages for either tunes upon my research... (Besides easy installation) I understand personal preference matters but I would really like to hear from users who have experienced both tuning in the past. (Detailed side by side comparison if possible)
I know there is a sticky for N54 Piggy back/flash tuning but it doesn't explain much and half of the sites posted on the sticky is no longer available.
I would very much like to hear from experienced users. Especially your gain after COBB or JB4 tuning. (Assuming G4 or G5 board).

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by hellomyBMW

Thanks for your input.
However, I have not seen any advantages/disadvantages for either tunes upon my research... (Besides easy installation) I understand personal preference matters but I would really like to hear from users who have experienced both tuning in the past. (Detailed side by side comparison if possible)
I know there is a sticky for N54 Piggy back/flash tuning but it doesn't explain much and half of the sites posted on the sticky is no longer available.
I would very much like to hear from experienced users. Especially your gain after COBB or JB4 tuning. (Assuming G4 or G5 board).

Grab the cigar and brandy, there are a lot of threads out there aka tune wars. . And you will find em. A lot of reading though. It's just best you read then get specific questions to ask, that will help you/benefit you in the long run.

[hellomyBMW]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

Grab the cigar and brandy, there are a lot of threads out there aka tune wars. . And you will find em. A lot of reading though. It's just best you read then get specific questions to ask, that will help you/benefit you in the long run.

Thanks! I guess that's what I will be doing all day today since there is not much to do at work lol.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by hellomyBMW

Thanks! I guess that's what I will be doing all day today since there is not much to do at work lol.

Join the club, lol

Try Google search, 90% of the time it will point you back here..

COBB or JB4 , etc.

Ps
Most of the time the car needs a driver mod.

Not to toot my own horn, but here is my thread
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746740