[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Right...so, acoording to Shiv's post...

"With v2, the user can dial in their own torque curve. Set to max (100%) and on 93oct, its possible to see over 400lbft of torque at the wheels on an otherwise stock 335. With the default settings (80-85%), expect to see output restricted to 370-380lbft. At 70-75%, you'll see approx 350lbft."

-shiv

This is what makes me start to wonder if the v2 is that special. Right now I'm getting 373 torque at the wheels on 91, so it looks like v2 will give me the same results with 91 octane. I know I haven't tried out the v2 yet, but it sounds to me that the v2 is just a race gas program that also lets you adjust the boost throughout the power band.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

get it on a dyno, thats what i plan on doing, ill post my result when i do

Do you have a before dyno? If not then go get one right now because the dyno after the v2 is installed will tell us nothing. We wouldn't be able to see what kind of gains you got and there would be nothing for us to campare to since I can't compare your dynograph to mine.

Now it's time for me to demand something from you. Sound familiar?

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

This is what makes me start to wonder if the v2 is that special. Right now I'm getting 373 torque at the wheels on 91, so it looks like v2 will give me the same results with 91 octane. I know I haven't tried out the v2 yet, but it sounds to me that the v2 is just a race gas program that also lets you adjust the boost throughout the power band.

With v2.0, you're still gaining ~ 40WHP + I'm sure you'll be increasing TQ as well (just maybe not to ~ 400 lb.-ft. RWTQ, which you may not want anyhow).

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Do you have a before dyno? If not then go get one right now because the dyno after the v2 is installed will tell us nothing. We wouldn't be able to see what kind of gains you got and there would be nothing for us to campare to since I can't compare your dynograph to mine.

Now it's time for me to demand something from you. Sound familiar?

Or just go to your dyno shop with V2 in hand, do your 1.4x runs, install your V2 in the parking lot, then dyno again. Probably save a little coin. You'll get some good comparison/gain data, same temp (or close), same dyno, ect.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by mdeauto

See the shiv reply.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84084

Thanks for that, did not see it.
Looks like i need to change my settings.
Will do it tomorrow.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Or just go to your dyno shop with V2 in hand, do your 1.4x runs, install your V2 in the parking lot, then dyno again. Probably save a little coin. You'll get some good comparison/gain data, same temp (or close), same dyno, ect.

I already have my baseline runs.

Originally Posted by sflgator

With v2.0, you're still gaining ~ 40WHP + I'm sure you'll be increasing TQ as well (just maybe not to ~ 400 lb.-ft. RWTQ, which you may not want anyhow).

Now this is what I don't understand. Are you sure it's 40 WHP, or is it 40 WHP after 6500 rpm? Who cares about the extra after 6500 rpm? I shift at 6500 rpm. I want to know how much extra whp I'm going to gain throughout the power band. I just thought it was weird to advertise it like that. Look below.

With the v2 upgrade, current PROcede users will feel as if they installed a PROcede all over again. With 40-50 additional horsepower above 6500RPM, your v2 equipped 335i will literally charge to redline. v2 upgrade kits start shipping on Sept 10th.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/v2.htm

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Now this is what I don't understand. Are you sure it's 40 WHP, or is it 40 WHP after 6500 rpm? Who cares about the extra after 6500 rpm? I shift at 6500 rpm. I just thought it was weird to advertise it like that. Look below.

With the v2 upgrade, current PROcede users will feel as if they installed a PROcede all over again. With 40-50 additional horsepower above 6500RPM, your v2 equipped 335i will literally charge to redline. v2 upgrade kits start shipping on Sept 10th.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/v2.htm

Yes, I understand your point, but when we're all short-shifting @ ~ 6,300rpm with PROcede v1.47 since that's where the HP/TQ drops off (and the car doesn't really pull from 6,400-7,000rpm redline), another +40WHP and good TQ to give you that extra power all the way to redline WILL make a significant difference...you'll see! :rocks:

The funny thing is that a stock 335i's HP drops off @ 5,800rpm and TQ drops off at 5,000rpm (according to BMW specs)...so the PROcede v1.2-v1.47 gave us more HP/TQ from launch to ~ 6,300rpm (about 500rpm/1,300rpm higher than stock respectively), but still not to redline. PROcede v2.0 goes even further, so we get even more HP/TQ (another 700rpm higher) all the way to redline.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I already have my baseline runs.

No that wasn't meant for you, I wouldn't presume to suggest anything to you when it comes to dyno-ing....as much as I wouldn't tell my dog how to lick his crotch.....he's already an expert at it!

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Do you have a before dyno? If not then go get one right now because the dyno after the v2 is installed will tell us nothing. We wouldn't be able to see what kind of gains you got and there would be nothing for us to campare to since I can't compare your dynograph to mine.

Now it's time for me to demand something from you. Sound familiar?

im VERY methodical whenever i test things (in EVERYTHING not just cars, you should see some of the PC temperature stuff) so ill be dynoing with the car apart, stock, v1, v2 ECT

that way it will all be same say same dyno same conditions, and actual stock not "stock map" which is not stock

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

im VERY methodical whenever i test things (in EVERYTHING not just cars, you should see some of the PC temperature stuff) so ill be dynoing with the car apart, stock, v1, v2 ECT

that way it will all be same say same dyno same conditions, and actual stock not "stock map" which is not stock

Well, I can't wait to see. It's going to be nice to be on the other end this time, watching somebody else spend their money on dynos so I can just kick back and look at the results.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Now this is what I don't understand. Are you sure it's 40 WHP, or is it 40 WHP after 6500 rpm? Who cares about the extra after 6500 rpm? I shift at 6500 rpm. I want to know how much extra whp I'm going to gain throughout the power band. I just thought it was weird to advertise it like that. Look below.

With the v2 upgrade, current PROcede users will feel as if they installed a PROcede all over again. With 40-50 additional horsepower above 6500RPM, your v2 equipped 335i will literally charge to redline. v2 upgrade kits start shipping on Sept 10th.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/v2.htm

im going to both fanboi it here, as well as knock the shit out of shiv, v2 improves torque by a lot in the all important 4500+ range (maybe 30 ish) so the car WILL be "much" faster, its not going to be anything like stock to v1 though


however, after 6k the improvement of v2 over v1 starts narrowing by a lot and v2 torque starts dropping even faster than v1 (he claimed it would drop off slower, when its in fact the opposite) of course v2 never drops below v1 but after 6500 your talking about a difference of like 10 torque, which is shit


with v1 you shouldn't have been shifting @ 6500 in the first two gears as torque output is greater in both up to 7k vs the next gear, and ill add the disclaimer that do to shifting habits you may run faster shifting sooner, but the fact still remains torque to the wheels is greater up to the rev limiter in first and second vs your wheel torque in the next gear

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

im going to both fanboi it here, as well as knock the shit out of shiv, v2 improves torque by a lot in the all important 4500+ range (maybe 30 ish) so the car WILL be "much" faster, its not going to be anything like stock to v1 though


however, after 6k the improvement of v2 over v1 starts narrowing by a lot and v2 torque starts dropping even faster than v1 (he claimed it would drop off slower, when its in fact the opposite) of course v2 never drops below v1 but after 6500 your talking about a difference of like 10 torque, which is shit


with v1 you shouldn't have been shifting @ 6500 in the first two gears as torque output is greater in both up to 7k vs the next gear, and ill add the disclaimer that do to shifting habits you may run faster shifting sooner, but the fact still remains torque to the wheels is greater up to the rev limiter in first and second vs your wheel torque in the next gear

You are correct, sir. The gear ratios between 1-2 and 2-3 are pretty wide, so when you shift to the next gear the RPMs drop quite a bit and the next ratio has a lot less torque multiplication (much longer gear than the previous one). Thus shifting very close to 7k is ideal.

The 3-4 shift is a bit closer and thus a shift at 6500 - 6700 is probably optimal.

With V2 optimal shift points should be similar to V1.47, since there is still significant torque loss above 6500 RPM. 533, when you get your V2 dyno perhaps you can do the math for us and tell us when to shift for best acceleration.

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

You are correct, sir. The gear ratios between 1-2 and 2-3 are pretty wide, so when you shift to the next gear the RPMs drop quite a bit and the next ratio has a lot less torque multiplication (much longer gear than the previous one). Thus shifting very close to 7k is ideal.

The 3-4 shift is a bit closer and thus a shift at 6500 - 6700 is probably optimal.

holly dam, how did you know that w/o doing the math, math shows 6700 3-4 and 6400 4-5

v2s about the same based off the current "beta" dynos

[sambonator]

Can we have a valet mode like this?

1000 = -50%
1500 = -50%
2000 = -50%
2500 = -50%
3000 = -50%
3500 = -50%
4000 = -50%
4500 = -50%
5000 = -50%
5500 = -50%
6000 = -50%
6500 = -50%
7000 = -50%


What happens if you do something like:

1000 = 0%
1500 = 100%
2000 = 0%
2500 = 100%
3000 = 0%
3500 = 100%
4000 = 0%
4500 = 100%
5000 = 0%
5500 = 100%
6000 = 0%
6500 = 100%
7000 = 0%

?

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by sambonator

What happens if you do something like:

1000 = 0%
1500 = 100%
2000 = 0%
2500 = 100%
3000 = 0%
3500 = 100%
4000 = 0%
4500 = 100%
5000 = 0%
5500 = 100%
6000 = 0%
6500 = 100%
7000 = 0%

?

besides the obvious, the wastegates will FREAK OUT, and i will bet youll throw a code

[SfValley335i]

Originally Posted by sambonator

Can we have a valet mode like this?

1000 = -50%
1500 = -50%
2000 = -50%
2500 = -50%
3000 = -50%
3500 = -50%
4000 = -50%
4500 = -50%
5000 = -50%
5500 = -50%
6000 = -50%
6500 = -50%
7000 = -50%


What happens if you do something like:

1000 = 0%
1500 = 100%
2000 = 0%
2500 = 100%
3000 = 0%
3500 = 100%
4000 = 0%
4500 = 100%
5000 = 0%
5500 = 100%
6000 = 0%
6500 = 100%
7000 = 0%

?

why dont you try it and tell us what happens?
it obviously wouldnt take -50 as an input. 0-100-0-100 idea wouldnt take either unless theres bad coding... if it did take then the car would probably have a shaking/jumping feeling....

[Driver72]

Well based on what Shiv said here:
"With v2, the user can dial in their own torque curve. Set to max (100%) and on 93oct, its possible to see over 400lbft of torque at the wheels on an otherwise stock 335. With the default settings (80-85%), expect to see output restricted to 370-380lbft. At 70-75%, you'll see approx 350lbft.

-shiv"

it sounds like this is what the deal is:

If you are on 91 Octane and want maximum power set to 85%
If you are on 91 Octane and want a slightly conservative tune set to 80%
If you are on 91 Octane and want a low torque output (especially below 3000 rpms for launches with less wheelspin) set to 70-75% (or even a bit lower)

If you are on 93 Octane and want maximum power you could go 100% but it may be best to set it to 95% and save the last 5% for when you dump in some 100 Octane race gas and have a 95+ Octane tune.
If you are on 93 Octane and want to be a bit conservative, set to 90%
If you are on 93 Octane and want a low torque output (again for launches) set to about 70-75% (or a bit lower.

Therefore I have updated my original post with my "new" first impressions.

I will probably, again, possibly do this at a dyno shop to fine tune it to what I'd like.

[e.n335]

Looks good to me.

However, it would be helpful to see the predefined settings from Shiv and a V2 torque curve from a PROcede'd V2, everything else stock car.

Then I will do the math, set the values and probably have to do the "fine tuning" for my application on a dyno. I greatly appreciate the possibility of the V2 user settings.

- Eugen

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Driver72

it sounds like this is what the deal is:

If you are on 91 Octane and want maximum power set to 85%
If you are on 91 Octane and want a slightly conservative tune set to 80%
If you are on 91 Octane and want a low torque output (especially below 3000 rpms for launches with less wheelspin) set to 70-75% (or even a bit lower)

If you are on 93 Octane and want maximum power you could go 100% but it may be best to set it to 95% and save the last 5% for when you dump in some 100 Octane race gas and have a 95+ Octane tune.
If you are on 93 Octane and want to be a bit conservative, set to 90%
If you are on 93 Octane and want a low torque output (again for launches) set to about 70-75%

According to v1 dyno graphs, for 91 octane, 85% (14psi) induces timing retard even under cool-running conditions. So presumably, 80% could offer max power for 91oct. That is w/o knock sensor going off during WOT. Is this correct?

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

According to v1 dyno graphs, for 91 octane, 85% (14psi) induces timing retard even under cool-running conditions. So presumably, 80% could offer max power for 91oct. That is w/o knock sensor going off during WOT. Is this correct?

I don't know personally.
Shiv just said the "default" settings would be 80-85%.
Since Shiv is also in CA and many of his customers only get 91 Octane I'd have to guess that means the "default" settings are for us with 91 Octane.

Now he says, "80-85%" so I'm not sure if that means it's "somewhere in between there" or it's set for "80% in the low rpm range and going up to 85% at peak"?

I would say though, that Shiv wouldn't put up to "85%" if it was unsafe to run 85% on 91 Octane.
I also like to play it a touch safe however, so personally if he said 91 Octane is good for up to 85%, I'd set my maximums at 83-84% for just a touch more safety (at the cost of probably only a couple ponies anyway).

I like that he stated that 70-75% would be a max torque output of roughly 350 rwtq.
That's perfect personally, since v1.47 seems to peak about 370-375 and is a bit too much below 3500 rpms and makes launching difficult.
Having 10-20 lbs ft less below 3500 rpms would be ideal for better (less wheelspin) launches.

[jonm42]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Or just go to your dyno shop with V2 in hand, do your 1.4x runs, install your V2 in the parking lot, then dyno again. Probably save a little coin. You'll get some good comparison/gain data, same temp (or close), same dyno, ect.

That sounds somewhat familiar...

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by jonm42

That sounds somewhat familiar...

I'm pretty sure you were there