[Year's_End]

Scratch all of that. I'd take a 599GTB over those. Daily drivability, plus looks that aren't completely in your face, and performance that's hard to touch, you just can't go wrong.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

Scratch all of that. I'd take a 599GTB over those. Daily drivability, plus looks that aren't completely in your face, and performance that's hard to touch, you just can't go wrong.

+1
I have the 599GTB as my wallpaper. It keeps me motivated

[AK]

I just don´t understand this affection with Italian sport cars. What´s so great about them? They cost more and are so in your face and OTT and compared to German cars and BMW in particular less high-tech (high-tech is a good thing!) and you can´t use them except on a racetrack (almost). German engineering is just brilliant! They make insane cars for driving in the real world on real roads AND real racetracks. I´m not sure about Italian engineering though. I just don´t get that "passion" stuff. I don´t understand that Italian thingy. They drink wine and the beer down there tastes like discoloured water. Maybe it has something to do with what they´re drinking. I don´t know. Anyway, I´d take the M5 over the F430 any day. Prost!

[Year's_End]

I think it has to do with Ferrari building cars so that they can race, whereas other manufacturers race so that they can build cars. Racing is Ferrari's passion. I dunno. I just hear that explanation all the time so I figure that's the reason why.

[Neil]

Ferrari has an aura to them that BMW just doesn't have, they have a racing pedigree, the perfect looks that are just as much art as function, the wail of the engine that few can replicate, and this doesn't even factor in their performance numbers. It is the ultimate car man's car and for what it cost it should have everything listed above.

[lvwirelessguy]

Originally Posted by AK

I just don´t understand this affection with Italian sport cars. What´s so great about them? They cost more and are so in your face and OTT and compared to German cars and BMW in particular less high-tech (high-tech is a good thing!) and you can´t use them except on a racetrack (almost). German engineering is just brilliant! They make insane cars for driving in the real world on real roads AND real racetracks. I´m not sure about Italian engineering though. I just don´t get that "passion" stuff. I don´t understand that Italian thingy. They drink wine and the beer down there tastes like discoloured water. Maybe it has something to do with what they´re drinking. I don´t know. Anyway, I´d take the M5 over the F430 any day. Prost!

Once you have some seat time in the F430 it will all become very clear

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by AK

I just don´t understand this affection with Italian sport cars. What´s so great about them? They cost more and are so in your face and OTT and compared to German cars and BMW in particular less high-tech (high-tech is a good thing!) and you can´t use them except on a racetrack (almost). German engineering is just brilliant! They make insane cars for driving in the real world on real roads AND real racetracks. I´m not sure about Italian engineering though. I just don´t get that "passion" stuff. I don´t understand that Italian thingy. They drink wine and the beer down there tastes like discoloured water. Maybe it has something to do with what they´re drinking. I don´t know. Anyway, I´d take the M5 over the F430 any day. Prost!

Lmao, you would take an M5 over the F430 any day? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard today.

[sdiver68]

Personally, the Ferrari "mystique" does nothing for me. If you've ever owned a high performance Italian motor vehicle, you'll understand it's a love or hate relationship.

Porsche is a far superior brand in every way other than in poseur status.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

I think it has to do with Ferrari building cars so that they can race, whereas other manufacturers race so that they can build cars. Racing is Ferrari's passion. I dunno. I just hear that explanation all the time so I figure that's the reason why.

Porsche has much more racing success than Ferrari, excepting F1...but those aren't really road cars now are they? Besides, Honda and Ford dominated F1 when they actually made the effort.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by nmulax

yep



well, just depends what your plans for the day are;
going to the office then hanging out with the guys... M5
having sex with a new girl (or two) that night... Ferrari

hahaha...thats a good way to look at it. But when your at parties or clubs, where girls are, they arent going to know what you drive anyway, and I would NEVER bring it up unless they asked.

[karliejai]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

The Ferrari is still a Ferrari, and the BMW is still a BMW at the end of the day.

Enough said.

+1

the M5 can be my DD and the Ferrari can be my weekend warrior!

[AK]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

Lmao, you would take an M5 over the F430 any day? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard today.

Oh is it? For my needs the M5 ticks all the right boxes and I don´t like the styling of the F430 or anything. Yes of course I could have the F430 and sell it and get the money to buy two M5s and so on, but that´s not the point here.
I prefer the M5 over the F430. But if you´re so smart, tell my why this is "the dumbest thing" you´ve heard today? And mind your language.

[AK]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Personally, the Ferrari "mystique" does nothing for me. If you've ever owned a high performance Italian motor vehicle, you'll understand it's a love or hate relationship.

Porsche is a far superior brand in every way other than in poseur status.

Quite right.

[ik999]

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

Lmao, you would take an M5 over the F430 any day? That's about the dumbest thing I've heard today.

I would also take an M5 over an F430. Any day.

has all the practicality and luxury of a 5

don't get stared at everywhere you go

no worries parking it wherever

the list goes on

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

so sad....

whats sad?

Originally Posted by DougLikesBMW

The Ferrari is still a Ferrari, and the BMW is still a BMW at the end of the day.

Enough said.

and..? i would have more respect for an M5 driver than an F430, the M5 guy will be an car educated enthusiast! who know his car and how do drive it, the F430 driver, prob does not even know the HP of his own car, how to use it and only bought it because its a ferrari, on the real open road, the M5 would waste one, on track not much in it as long as the m5 driver went out in the f430 to compare to the m5

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

Scratch all of that. I'd take a 599GTB over those. Daily drivability, plus looks that aren't completely in your face, and performance that's hard to touch, you just can't go wrong.

Your a man who knows what he is talking about

the 599 gtb is sublime, a superb car, which blows the f430 into the weeds, there is something about front engined ferraris, there just so sexy and Classy!!!! upstage any other ferrari apart from an enzo, but then again thats appealing to a different clienti, altho most 599 gtb owners, probably have an enzo for the weekend ''Track antics''

Originally Posted by AK

I just don´t understand this affection with Italian sport cars. What´s so great about them? They cost more and are so in your face and OTT and compared to German cars and BMW in particular less high-tech (high-tech is a good thing!) and you can´t use them except on a racetrack (almost). German engineering is just brilliant! They make insane cars for driving in the real world on real roads AND real racetracks. I´m not sure about Italian engineering though. I just don´t get that "passion" stuff. I don´t understand that Italian thingy. They drink wine and the beer down there tastes like discoloured water. Maybe it has something to do with what they´re drinking. I don´t know. Anyway, I´d take the M5 over the F430 any day. Prost!

you obviously know nothign about ferrari its heritage my friend, they have been making world championship winning race cars since before you existed.. they know how to make a fast car. they dont do limosuines

go sit in a brand new 599 gtb fiorano and tell me its not better built than an
M5, dont be so blinkered, let the civic guys be blinkered thinking there 11 sec pass civic is better than an M5

''You can make a shit car go fast, but your still left with a shit fast car''

Originally Posted by AK

Oh is it? For my needs the M5 ticks all the right boxes and I don´t like the styling of the F430 or anything. Yes of course I could have the F430 and sell it and get the money to buy two M5s and so on, but that´s not the point here.
I prefer the M5 over the F430. But if you´re so smart, tell my why this is "the dumbest thing" you´ve heard today? And mind your language.

at the end of the day its down to everyones different tastes, if we didnt have that we would be all living in communist china driving the same cars


now i have came accross a 07 F430 spider, and i wanted to race, like my comments earlier, he had no clue how to drive such a desirable machine...

as we came down the slip road he dropped a few gears and nailed it, i stuck on his bumper for two gears then he backed off and i flew past... what a waste of a car!!!

if i had been driving it would have been gone

over the standing quarter the M5 would just have it, both with very good drivers

Carlos

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by AK

I just don´t understand this affection with Italian sport cars. What´s so great about them? They cost more and are so in your face and OTT and compared to German cars and BMW in particular less high-tech (high-tech is a good thing!) and you can´t use them except on a racetrack (almost). German engineering is just brilliant! They make insane cars for driving in the real world on real roads AND real racetracks. I´m not sure about Italian engineering though. I just don´t get that "passion" stuff. I don´t understand that Italian thingy. They drink wine and the beer down there tastes like discoloured water. Maybe it has something to do with what they´re drinking. I don´t know. Anyway, I´d take the M5 over the F430 any day. Prost!

Its called soul. When you sit in a Ferrari, or even just inspect the design of the sheetmetal. Theres a history of handbuilt craftsmanship you cant find anywhere else. The voice of Enzo in your head as you look around and think about his original ideas of what a sportscar should be and how it has evolved. The dedication to everything being in its place and to be a perfect drivers oriented car. Its not even a car anymore, its rolling art. Its driveable imagination. When I finally have a Ferrari in my garage I will wake up with tears of joy knowing its mine and it appreciates me as much as I appreciate it.

The same thing goes for motorcyles. As of right now, my Ducati is the closest Im getting to a Ferrari but riding it feels like no other bike ever created.

Im not discrediting the M5, its an amazing people mover. Its just that though.

Im sorry you cant feel as much passion as I can.

[DougLikesBMW]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Its called soul. When you sit in a Ferrari, or even just inspect the design of the sheetmetal. Theres a history of handbuilt craftsmanship you cant find anywhere else. The voice of Enzo in your head as you look around and think about his original ideas of what a sportscar should be and how it has evolved. The dedication to everything being in its place and to be a perfect drivers oriented car. Its not even a car anymore, its rolling art. Its driveable imagination. When I finally have a Ferrari in my garage I will wake up with tears of joy knowing its mine and it appreciates me as much as I appreciate it.

The same thing goes for motorcyles. As of right now, my Ducati is the closest Im getting to a Ferrari but riding it feels like no other bike ever created.

Im not discrediting the M5, its an amazing people mover. Its just that though.

Im sorry you cant feel as much passion as I can.

You beat me to it.

[ndahbar]

599GTB is a masterpiece, but other than straight line and practicality, the F430 has got it licked in the dynamics department.

The most mesmerising car I've ever driven or been in (and I've been in my fair share of super/special cars) was the F355. Modena was pretty darn close, and in fact although I know and appreciate that the F430 is a much better car than either of those 2 predecessors, it was understandably less raw and evocative, albeit an adrenaline rush from hell (heaven? lol). I just recall the F355 adrenaline rush (I was flogging it pretty hard too late at night, nobody else around) was at its own level...

Just the sound...the sound itself guys...

I mean Modenas and F430s with Tubi exhausts can come close, but not quite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htyLquNNpYQ


Anyhow, the M5 & F430 are astoundingl products that even hardcore enthusiasts like us have a hard time REALLY understanding all their abilities and how worthy their engineering is of respect on the highest order.

The F430 and 599 are so great because of that brilliantly-designed and effective Manettino switch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manettino_dial). Literally transforms the car at your wishes, and thus suddenly, the machine is very adept in almost all road conditions.

Same about the M5/M6 and presumably the E92 M3. If you really understand, appreciate, and do your homework with the electronic<>mechanical adjustability on these cars, you have at your disposal a fantastically usable machine in so many conditions.

No really, this isn't just "marketing fluff". Look how adjustable some of the Japanese sports car have been, like the Skylines and Evos and I dunno what else with all those switches to control the traction, AWD, suspension systems etc. Yeah yeah, they work, but eh, do they have much soul? Do they suck on rough roads no matter the settings? Do their chassis feel nearly as solid and as capable a platform as many of the German counterparts?

So yeah, I just thought that was a very interesting article in which the Ferrari had to struggle to simply match the M5 in the undulating, various-speed twisties.

[AK]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Its called soul. When you sit in a Ferrari, or even just inspect the design of the sheetmetal. Theres a history of handbuilt craftsmanship you cant find anywhere else. The voice of Enzo in your head as you look around and think about his original ideas of what a sportscar should be and how it has evolved. The dedication to everything being in its place and to be a perfect drivers oriented car. Its not even a car anymore, its rolling art. Its driveable imagination. When I finally have a Ferrari in my garage I will wake up with tears of joy knowing its mine and it appreciates me as much as I appreciate it.

The same thing goes for motorcyles. As of right now, my Ducati is the closest Im getting to a Ferrari but riding it feels like no other bike ever created.

Im not discrediting the M5, its an amazing people mover. Its just that though.

Im sorry you cant feel as much passion as I can.

I understand you are trying to communicate that Italian passion thing to me and I appreciate it. I´ve had a Ducati myself and I understand the affection for the V-twin engine and styling, but it didn´t make me want to buy a Ferrari. I still prefer the M5. I probably can feel as much passion as you can, but not for Italian sport cars. My passion is for German sport cars.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by AK

I understand you are trying to communicate that Italian passion thing to me and I appreciate it. I´ve had a Ducati myself and I understand the affection for the V-twin engine and styling, but it didn´t make me want to buy a Ferrari. I still prefer the M5. I probably can feel as much passion as you can, but not for Italian sport cars. My passion is for German sport cars.

Thats fine. I wasnt sold on Ferrari from my Ducati. I was sold on Ferrrari when as a child I saw the '74 246gts Dino. And then Magnum PI hit and it was all over. I poured over every magazine, book and article I could find on this marque and the man behind it. Every report I had to do in middle school and high school was on the history of Ferrari and the man behind it. I was and still am enamoured with his vision.

That, my friend is why Im passionate about the Ferrrari. Germans engineer their cars, Italians envision them.

[AK]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Thats fine. I wasnt sold on Ferrari from my Ducati. I was sold on Ferrrari when as a child I saw the '74 246gts Dino. And then Magnum PI hit and it was all over. I poured over every magazine, book and article I could find on this marque and the man behind it. Every report I had to do in middle school and high school was on the history of Ferrari and the man behind it. I was and still am enamoured with his vision.

That, my friend is why Im passionate about the Ferrrari. Germans engineer their cars, Italians envision them.

OK, now we´re really getting somewhere (attention Doug). What you´re saying is interesting and I appreciate it! I understand your references and how this formed a passion for Ferrari within you. I even 100% agree to the claim that Germans engineer their cars and Italians envision theirs. I think you put it to the point there. That is exactly what I like with German cars. I like the whole engineering driven image they´ve got. There´s something very machine-like and stern with their products and I really like that.

Thank you very much HyperM3, I didn´t want to start a flame war. This is in fact a very interesting discussion. Even though I prefer M5 to F430, I don´t hate Ferraris or Italian sport cars.

[HyperM3]

Originally Posted by AK

Thank you very much HyperM3, I didn´t want to start a flame war. This is in fact a very interesting discussion. Even though I prefer M5 to F430, I don´t hate Ferraris or Italian sport cars.

Unfortunately sometimes you have forum-fanboys who dedicate themselves to erradicating anyone who disagrees with the marque in discussion. Then, there are others like myself who appreciate every manufacture that has put an automobile on the road in the past 100+ yrs.

There is no engineering like German engineering. Their precision in tolerances is scalpal sharp. They build driving perfection for the real world. Unfortunately they should cease and desist from making electronics, but thats another thread.

I have an M3 in the garage as well but I dont consider myself a loyalist. Kick me in the knees and knock me down if that bothers anyone. I pride myself on my knowledge of whats out there and my ability to enjoy a drive in anything from a ford, to a toyota, to a BMW. Its all about driving to me no matter what Im in. People need to stop bashing on their own cars(328 vs. 335) and realize we are all here because we are enthusiasts(or hope to be).