[Kerr]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Yeah - an E46 M3 or 3.0i Z4 are the top two cars on the list should I choose to change.

But I'd rather refinance. StIll waiting on a settlement figure at the mo to see feasibility

Originally Posted by MEGA

Aware - Not an issue. Joint income is 80k, and we want a 250k property.

An M3 is far more costly to run than a 335d. What you save on finance you'll pay out a good part of it elsewhere. Then if something fails......

When do you plan buying? You've been saving a long time from my memory based on previous threads.

If you're not planning to buy in the short term, would it not work out better in the long run to not to be paying interest on big loans?

Would it not be cheaper to settle the car finance yourself with your savings, then selling it when needed to bank the cash again if the depreciation isn't going to be bad?

I'm struggling with the logic of saving for years for a house whilst borrowing money for other things that are stretching the budget.

Also, won't the amount of loans not affect your credit score for getting a mortgage?

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Not a huge savings pot but a growing one which we're using toward a mortgage not the car.

We are currently saving about 1500/month toward deposit.

If I have to dip into savings to get out of the car it defeats the objects. That money is for deposit, not car.

Not sure what you mean by "a 335d". The cost of the car will be dependant on how old it is, what the options are, and all the rest. People do buy nearly new cars. I wanted this one. I don't regret it. Just wondering if I should shift my priorities is all. I spent £30k more or less on a car. Just because you "can" get a beaten up 2006 335d in today's money for about 10-12k doesn't mean I would have ever considered that. That's why I bought a 2011 one

Dave

by "a 335d" I meant that your running costs are more inline with an M3. That is a pretty bad MPG, inline with my mums 330ci that only ever does 2 miles cold every morning and evening.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by Kerr

I'm struggling with the logic of saving for years for a house whilst borrowing money for other things that are stretching the budget.

I agree. Always pay the highest interest first. I settled my BMW loan after 4 months, saving £2k of interest. However after 20 months I am not sure how worth it it is as a major amount of the interest is probably already paid off.

[MEGA]

As long as I understand correctly, HP interest is not top loaded, but obviously you still pay more interest at the beginning of the term because the amount outstanding is higher.

Month 1, Payment contains 260-270 of pure interest at 7.1% of 27000 divided by 12 is paid in month 1

Month 60, only 523 outstanding. 7.1% of that is 40 odd (man maths). The other 480 is all paying off the original loan value / capital sum


....aaaanyway. In answer to why save and borrow - the answer is simple. I bought the car before I commited to saving - and I bought a finance product payable over a long time.

To pay that off now would remove all of our savings (we are going for a 10% mortgage and have been actively saving for this year so 8 months so far, we need 25k and now have 12). and then some. We'd be put back by 8 months.

Technically, with my extra 523 we'd be able to get the money back in 6 months - not 8. But that'd mean in March I'd be back where I am now.

Whereas, as things stand, in march we'll be at 20-21k rather than 12 whilst I will still be paying for the finance product.

If I can refinance I'll be at a higher value still in march, and so far this seems the best option.

Deferring payments another possibility

To reiterate, the monthlies are almost circumstantial at the moment. I just need the capital to get the product (deposit for the mortgate).

Obviously, if I'd have known what I knew regarding timescales for a house - I might not have bought this car 20 months ago. But I did't. Naomi was still studying and I didn't expect her to walk into a good job so soon. I also didn't expect the housing market to still be so competetive, and probably made the call to go for property a year later than I should have.

Still, owning the car outright isn't an option which is where I started this post.. Because I don't want to put the house back further still. So, I refinance it - or I sell it. If the latter, I need to replace it with something that will keep me sane but on a budget.

I've driven an E46 M3 before and with my driving profile (average speed 16-17mph in london traffic) I would expect to get about 14mpg.

I get 18mpg or so driving the 335d on this journey.

I got 16 with the 350z.

4mpg, or 0.85 miles per litre less- is NOT enough to outweigh the saving of possibly having a £300 or more cheaper finance cost. It would at worst add 25% to my fuel bill, which would be £90 a month. So a clear net saving if I drop to an E46 M3 for my monthlies. No point discussing that further.

.....but I'd STILL rather refinance as I love the car.

ps, feel free to rip apart the maths where it falls down - this was all made up on the spot without a calculator or tool of any kind (except arguable the one tippy tappying on the keyboard )

Dave

[MEGA]

Also, short memory aside - I've never not been in substantial debt for one reason or another to date.

In 2006 my mother's jewellery business was hit by a group of armed robbers. She had a gun held to the back of her neck and a knife to her throat.

She went on sick leave after this, then quit. She didn't work for 18 months.

Today, I don't rent a private place. I pay rent to her. I live at home at 26. Yeah, yeah.

But when she quit, I took over ALL bills for the house. 100% of them. She was living there for free.

This was to keep her in a home.

During that time, I was only earning about a third of what I do now. By 2010 I was in £30k of debt.

I've spent 3 years paying this off, 2 of those years running the 320d which I'd paid for fortunately out of some inheritance and the last 6 months in a 350z which cost me 7k over 5 years or in other terms about 170 a month.

When I was down to "just one credit card", I bought the 335d. This was the first thing I'd bought myself through 6 years of career building. Obviously this was bought on finance, bar a 10% deposit (2700) which was paid by saving for 3 months.

But all of the above, is why I've never had savings - in short. Hence the bizarre situation now of having both debt and savings simultanously.

We are where we are, so logic around that at this point is irrelivent. Can't change circumstance or turn back the clock.


The simple decision is now, keep, refinance, or sell. The latter two seem more feasible... Who knows.

[MEGA]

Last point, I am listening. I am just also arguing so as to get your counterpoints. The idea of selling this car is an incredibly hard sell to me - I love it, and know whatever I get next will be a disappointment. I don't want to sell it, and will fight tooth and nail not to.


Ah, last last point - I'm certain Naomi won't be convinced about dipping outo the savings pot to clear the car. She'll not appreciate the logic behind it, regardless. She's worked hard to save and if she sees her share going into the car she'll not understand I don't think.

[nealer74]

been here before a few times - made the wrong decision (for me) to rid get the car, bought something cheaper and ended up hating it and trading it in for something much more expensive in the first place.

When I lost a rental income and had a few unexpected bills i took the knee jerk to get rid of the car, at the end of the day its a great luxury to drive a nice car... i got some decent advice from my IFA and re-financed (smarter - transferring the debt, splitting it up etc.) ...

(I don't know you... but honestly can't see you going back to a 206 1.6 after the nice list you've had )

[dxb335d]

Dave you will really enjoy an E46 M3. Try one. I'm happy to help you find one.

[gangzoom]

Sounds like you've thought about it long and hard...

Just bear in mind once your mortgage starts your be paying £1K+ a months (£225K loan, at 3.5%). You might have taken that into account already, but theres nothing more scary than watching your current account at the end of month and working out if you have enough in there to cover the mortgage...I speak from past experience when at one point I had to pay two mortgages on two houses whilst taking a paycut just after the housing market crashed, it certainly helps you to stay awake at night

The most sensible thing to do would be forget the car and run around in a £500 banger for 12 months, until your financially more secure. But than again I suspect no one on this forum is that sensible, given everyone drives BMWs...I know I'm totally useless when it comes to cars been sensible with money

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

Sounds like you've thought about it long and hard...

Just bear in mind once your mortgage starts your be paying £1K+ a months (£225K loan, at 3.5%). You might have taken that into account already, but theres nothing more scary than watching your current account at the end of month and working out if you have enough in there to cover the mortgage...I speak from past experience when at one point I had to pay two mortgages on two houses whilst taking a paycut just after the housing market crashed, it certainly helps you to stay awake at night

The most sensible thing to do would be forget the car and run around in a £500 banger for 12 months, until your financially more secure. But than again I suspect no one on this forum is that sensible, given everyone drives BMWs...I know I'm totally useless when it comes to cars been sensible with money

+1.

I downgraded from a E60 to an old E46 last year when I bought my first house. Yes it is difficult and depressing to downgrade to a car thats over 10 years old worth 10% of my E60. BUT my finances are much better off and it allowed me to buy a house!!

Once your house is sorted and your finances are stetted, you can always go back to a nice car.

[nicktyler]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

The most sensible thing to do would be forget the car and run around in a £500 banger for 12 months, until your financially more secure. But than again I suspect no one on this forum is that sensible, given everyone drives BMWs...I know I'm totally useless when it comes to cars been sensible with money

This to me is by far the best advice and puts the 'most sensible' decision in a nutshell. However I am not going to say this is what I would do as I am as 'sensible' as the rest of you and you have countered every bit of advice about selling with 'yeah but I love the car!'

That is your decision then right?

Or how about buying an electric bike

[MEGA]

My other option of course is to look for another job. And I've not ruled this out by any stretch ...

Still waiting for BMW to come back to me with a settlement figure so I can cost up refinancing. I think this is "plan A"

But I'm sure I wouldn't be unhappy to "go down" to an E46 M3, so long as I find a good one. They are cracking cars. I just don't want to give up my car. The iDrive, heated seats, bluetooth audio, the audio install I've done (although this is transferrable at minimal cost), new tyres and my favourite BMW alloy full stop. I really had no plans to change car for a good number of years. It was this sudden loss of £350 pm out of the +ve balance sheet that's really made me think about what best to do.

Argh!!!

[Thewrench86]

i know the answer but i dont want to do it and i know u dont either, sell the car! down grade buy the house and then buy a nice car down the lien when things get better.

strangely i am in a similar situation. i just turned 27 and saving for a house deposit, but i saved and bought the e92 out right cash.
now i dont know whether to sell this car put more money towards the house downgrade to a shitter, or keep the car save up for longer and enjoy life a little in a nice car?

lets be honest this forum is the last place i thought id be discussing this issue lol!

[SBE92LCI]

LOL at my second post being to this on a car forum.

Any reason why you're so keen to move out other than the fact you're 26? If between you both you're able to save £1,500 a month and you already have £12k, you've only got 9 months-ish until you have your £25k.

Given the saving you'd make and how un-keen you are on getting rid of the car, I'd stick it out.

I guess I'm in a similar position (albeit a little younger)... 20 years old, car costs me about £1k a month (£418 a month repayment, £239 a month for insurance, fuel, tyres, etc.) and I've just succumbed to the fact that if I want to drive a nice car and move out, I'll just have to wait a bit longer.

Or is this absolutely not an option?

[gIzzE]

Month Balance Principal Interest Payment
1 £ 26,300.00 £ 366.40 £ 155.61 £ 522.01
2 £ 25,933.60 £ 368.57 £ 153.44 £ 522.01
3 £ 25,565.02 £ 370.75 £ 151.26 £ 522.01
4 £ 25,194.27 £ 372.95 £ 149.07 £ 522.01
5 £ 24,821.32 £ 375.15 £ 146.86 £ 522.01
6 £ 24,446.17 £ 377.37 £ 144.64 £ 522.01
7 £ 24,068.79 £ 379.61 £ 142.41 £ 522.01
8 £ 23,689.19 £ 381.85 £ 140.16 £ 522.01
9 £ 23,307.34 £ 384.11 £ 137.90 £ 522.01
10 £ 22,923.22 £ 386.38 £ 135.63 £ 522.01
11 £ 22,536.84 £ 388.67 £ 133.34 £ 522.01
12 £ 22,148.17 £ 390.97 £ 131.04 £ 522.01
13 £ 21,757.20 £ 393.28 £ 128.73 £ 522.01
14 £ 21,363.92 £ 395.61 £ 126.40 £ 522.01
15 £ 20,968.31 £ 397.95 £ 124.06 £ 522.01
16 £ 20,570.36 £ 400.31 £ 121.71 £ 522.01
17 £ 20,170.05 £ 402.67 £ 119.34 £ 522.01
18 £ 19,767.38 £ 405.06 £ 116.96 £ 522.01
19 £ 19,362.32 £ 407.45 £ 114.56 £ 522.01
20 £ 18,954.87 £ 409.86 £ 112.15 £ 522.01
21 £ 18,545.00 £ 412.29 £ 109.72 £ 522.01
22 £ 18,132.72 £ 414.73 £ 107.29 £ 522.01
23 £ 17,717.99 £ 417.18 £ 104.83 £ 522.01
24 £ 17,300.81 £ 419.65 £ 102.36 £ 522.01
25 £ 16,881.16 £ 422.13 £ 99.88 £ 522.01
26 £ 16,459.02 £ 424.63 £ 97.38 £ 522.01
27 £ 16,034.39 £ 427.14 £ 94.87 £ 522.01
28 £ 15,607.25 £ 429.67 £ 92.34 £ 522.01
29 £ 15,177.58 £ 432.21 £ 89.80 £ 522.01
30 £ 14,745.37 £ 434.77 £ 87.24 £ 522.01
31 £ 14,310.60 £ 437.34 £ 84.67 £ 522.01
32 £ 13,873.25 £ 439.93 £ 82.08 £ 522.01
33 £ 13,433.32 £ 442.53 £ 79.48 £ 522.01
34 £ 12,990.79 £ 445.15 £ 76.86 £ 522.01
35 £ 12,545.64 £ 447.78 £ 74.23 £ 522.01
36 £ 12,097.86 £ 450.43 £ 71.58 £ 522.01
37 £ 11,647.42 £ 453.10 £ 68.91 £ 522.01
38 £ 11,194.32 £ 455.78 £ 66.23 £ 522.01
39 £ 10,738.54 £ 458.48 £ 63.54 £ 522.01
40 £ 10,280.06 £ 461.19 £ 60.82 £ 522.01
41 £ 9,818.87 £ 463.92 £ 58.10 £ 522.01
42 £ 9,354.96 £ 466.66 £ 55.35 £ 522.01
43 £ 8,888.29 £ 469.42 £ 52.59 £ 522.01
44 £ 8,418.87 £ 472.20 £ 49.81 £ 522.01
45 £ 7,946.67 £ 475.00 £ 47.02 £ 522.01
46 £ 7,471.67 £ 477.81 £ 44.21 £ 522.01
47 £ 6,993.87 £ 480.63 £ 41.38 £ 522.01
48 £ 6,513.23 £ 483.48 £ 38.54 £ 522.01
49 £ 6,029.76 £ 486.34 £ 35.68 £ 522.01
50 £ 5,543.42 £ 489.21 £ 32.80 £ 522.01
51 £ 5,054.20 £ 492.11 £ 29.90 £ 522.01
52 £ 4,562.10 £ 495.02 £ 26.99 £ 522.01
53 £ 4,067.07 £ 497.95 £ 24.06 £ 522.01
54 £ 3,569.13 £ 500.90 £ 21.12 £ 522.01
55 £ 3,068.23 £ 503.86 £ 18.15 £ 522.01
56 £ 2,564.37 £ 506.84 £ 15.17 £ 522.01
57 £ 2,057.53 £ 509.84 £ 12.17 £ 522.01
58 £ 1,547.69 £ 512.86 £ 9.16 £ 522.01
59 £ 1,034.83 £ 515.89 £ 6.12 £ 522.01
60 £ 518.94 £ 518.94 £ 3.07 £ 522.01
61 £ 0.00 £ 0.00 £ 0.00 £ 0.00

At month 20 you owe around £19k as you said.
Interest is not front loaded any more.



A good customer of mine has just bought a 2002 75k mile, FSH, E46 M3 in silver with grey leather that looks like new and he paid......
£4700 for it.
Was up for £5450.

Sure enough looking on autotrader there are a few out there at this price.

I went from a 535d and a CSL to a 335i and then realised that the E46 M3 is a peach, so bought another regular SMG M3.

It is an upgrade in everything other than the date of the reg plate imho.

Cars are a waste of money, as I got closer to 40 I started to realise this.

I had the 535d touring, M3 CSL and a 120d M-Sport at one point, around £12000 in depreciation alone, it was the month were I went through two carbon CSL bumpers at £2800 each, the car was 3 years old so needed the warranty at £1500 and my insurance needed renewing and I had lost my garage so that was £1600. Along with fuel that month cost me about £7000 and it was a real wake up call.
That was when I got the 335i, but even that I started to get bored of after a while.

Best all round car I have owned was not the CSL, but was the SMG M3, more usable than the CSL and 95% as fun.
Now they can be had for under £5k why the fuck would you even want to keep the 335i?

Get an M3 for £5k and pay it off over 2 year for £200 a month, or over 36 months at £140 a month.
It will still be worth £4k at the end.


I got the same MPG from my 535d as my M3, well, 26 vs 24, nothing to worry about.

At 10 years old just do regular servicing yourself.
Don't worry about all that cobblers about tappets, when they sound...well....tappety...get them done.


I am in a 02 plate ML270cdi at the moment, and I love it, cost me nothing, it is not depreciating and I am really enjoying the 4x4 thing again.

Before you know it you will be 40 and you will be looking at what you owe, and you will probably look back and think 'hmmm, why wasn't I more sensible with my money?'

I got a quote for a pension the other day, and for me to take home the equivalent of half what I earn I was looking at £1700 a month, now that was a a wake up call.

I like nice cars, but to be honest a 10 year old Merc, BMW, Porsche is still an awesome car, not like 10 year old cars were 10 years ago if that makes sense?

Some nice Boxsters out there for £6000 too. Plenty of choice.

Or contract hire a new SLK250 for £190 a month if you want something fun and new.

[MEGA]

I tell you what, a boxster S was third choice - but I heard they are a total slag to service ?!?



Thanks for the proper calculated reply. I thought my numbers were all about right (I've studied finance to some degree but don't work in the field. I am only guilty of rushing my maths on here rather than opening a spreadsheet) but some others were greatly disputing it.


I think you're very close to convincing me to get an M3. Argh. Argh indeed. I KNOW it won't be a bad choice, but but but... I love my car. I really don't want to sell it. Feck sake.

Let's see what BMW think I owe them and then peruse options.

[MEGA]

I'm being stung a little in this decision process by having an 8 year old 350z for 6 months and it being absolutely f*cking terrible in terms of cost of ownersihp.

I guess the BMWs are built much much better.

Literally every eletrical component on that f*cking 350z shat itself in my ownership of it.

But the exhuast was sensational. Supercar sensational.

Which is a point. There is simply no way I'd tolerate another diesel if I do change cars. If I'm sacrificing comfort and "newness" (for want of a better word) of things like iDrive etc, I'm damn well going to get the exhaust note back whilst I'm doing it ..

[MEGA]

And another thing.

I literally just replaced 2 tyres, front brakes (disks and pads), renewed the warranty.

This is some 1500 in cost.

And I won't see any of it back.

So surely that justifies keeping the car

[xPETEZx]

If you love the car, I vote for keep.

Sounds like your car is cracking spec, and you would be giving up a lot of creature comforts in this swap.

Sure that exhaust sound will make up for it when driving in a spirited manor, but on the daily grid you are going to miss those bits.

[Drrncour]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Aware - Not an issue. Joint income is 80k, and we want a 250k property.

Cool, just double checking. :-)

[Hotcoupe]

In your shoes Dave, I'd very reluctantly sell the car.

It's unlikely the property market will stay as is for much longer, prices are already starting to creep upwards, and interest rates won't stay on the floor for much longer, 12-18 mths tops.

Put your money into an asset where the return normally only goes one way, cars and their worth only ever go in the opposite direction.

It's a tough call, I've been there, albeit in very different circumstances, but it will pay you back in the end.

[Frobius]

"Downgrading" to an E46 M3 is barking.

Yes you'll save on monthlies, but over a year you'll end up just piling that money back into maintenance.

Realistically, the only way you're going to save is if you can get any money out of the E92, get rid and buy old. Something like a late model well looked after E46 330i would suit I reckon. Little cost to maintain, pretty robust and still got a decent amount of poke.

Yes an M is an amazing car but just look at the cost of running them, especially with your mileage!

As some above have said, the quickest way into a house is to get the cheapest car you can. Run it for as long as you need to buy the house.

Trust me, once you're in the house, your budget priorities will change and you'll prob find yourself spending cash on doing it up or making babies instead of nice cars. Once you're in, if you have the money spare, get another nice car.

Also, you're going to have to get rid anyway before you apply for a mortgage. If they see you spending half your income on running a car, they'll laugh at you as they'll seem a mortgage unaffordable for you. Sounds like you're looking at similar money for a house as we did, £250k over 30 with 10% down will be about £1100 a month if you get the interest rate under control. Also, don't forget some life and critical illness insurance - prob budget another £100 or so a month between you both for that.