[Tzu]

No answer from shiv?

So, are you stacked in that datazap log? 3rd gear? There is only bank 2 AFR and trims in that log, ideally you'd have both. Your boost ramp up is slow, but you do meet target mid pull. Your trims are not zero, they are are adjusting throughout the pull and are no where near the adjustment max, so you are hitting the AFR target defined.

If you are stacking, zero out the OL and AFR tables in the procede.

[BADS335]

No, nothing from shiv. Pulls are 3rd gear. This is stacked. Shivs instructions in the video say to make the AFR tables 50 and OL I think 30 or 50.

So does the AFR table need to be 0 or 50?

I doubt the tagets are what I am seeing. It does not make sense to go from 15:1 down low to 10:1 AFR up top. So if I am hitting target, then the target is way off. But what is driving the target? And why is the target way off?

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Tzu

No answer from shiv?

So, are you stacked in that datazap log? 3rd gear? There is only bank 2 AFR and trims in that log, ideally you'd have both. Your boost ramp up is slow, but you do meet target mid pull. Your trims are not zero, they are are adjusting throughout the pull and are no where near the adjustment max, so you are hitting the AFR target defined.

If you are stacking, zero out the OL and AFR tables in the procede.

From what I've seen over the last summer is that shiv is now concentrating more on pumping out new products and hyping up old ones without supporting them or taking a very long time to update them. He promised e85 n55 maps a long time ago, hasn't gotten released. Precede maps are a year old (from what I've read on here I can't say for sure). E85 maps took a year to get better, then shiv hypes up 450hp maps and took a month to beta manual cars and has yet to even start Auto. He actually said the manual and auto would be out a week after he announced the new maps over 2 months ago.

He used to be really good responding to basic questions, helping out people who purchased his products but apparently things have changed to where he's concentrating more on sales now than support. I have a friend who pm'd him many times and bought a cobb instead since they never got replies (over the summer) Maybe the income is dropping? I wonder why. You need repeat customers, you need sales, you need good reputations to get new customers, and you need support for the products you do sell. If you take months to release things or even as long as a year. This previous customers and forever gone. You will always have loyal fanboy's but unless those people are actually buying products every month then their just a minority in the group of customers you need.

Shiv started something great, but he never has Group buys, Sales, and now his support is dropping drastically. He used to post a lot on these forums. If he owns the shop then he need to stop working simultaneously on everything and work on one thing at a time. The only things i see getting done are related to new sales. He promised a new $599 flex fuel setup and that came out right away with his new 450hp stock e85 map thread, yet those maps still aren't released to everyone (auto). Whats worse is that its the beta maps, not even the finished ones. I bet those won't be out for a very long time.

My first ever mod to my car was the open flash and that made me a fan. I immediately tried to buy the flex kit, and procede, but had problems with the way his wording was and pricing on it. When it was $799 it included a dme flash, (or separately for $150 for that service if your just stacking with just a procede) Since the flex kit came with it and i had his 4 day old open flash it only made sense to deduct that $150 from $799 since i didn't need it. We'll long story short he wouldn't do it and said it didn't come with it, but the wording on his site said otherwise at the time (its all in an old thread that can be found by searching my name). So after that dilemma i said screw it, I was about to return the open flash for a refund, but someone posted up a rev 3 and flex kit for sale and i bought that. At that point he kept me as a customer for future products, but if i had returned the open flash i was going to the Jb4 setup. After owning it, I do love the products, but the lack of updates is literally making me re-think everything once again. I was even thinking of doing his custom dyne tune, but if these maps take so freaking long then whats the point.

Shiv needs to start pumping out his promises if he plans to keep his customers. If not they will shift away. I wish shiv did a monthly dyno session. Invite local bmw owners down for a bbq/dyno day (paying of course). This never happens either. That type of customer interaction is what helps companies prosper. This would also increase sales and custom tunes. When someone see's the working product on a car they might just buy one on the spot. I never had anything against shiv, but i always hoped as a tuner he would do a lot more than just pump out products. He's a tuner, get people into your shop for tunes. I had a very nice relationship with my old tuner (mustang dyno on my 600hp mustang) in the bay area and went back often. I spent $500 the first time, then $400 each new visit to get my tune updated (new mods, e85 ect...) That level of support is what kept me coming back. Although he never created the SCT I literally got sent custom tunes by showing him graphs in the e-mail for free. Something he didn't offer.

I'm still hoping that shiv gets more personally involved with his customers, offering discounts, group buys, tune days, dyno days ect... If things don't change I'm selling all my stuff next year (even though i love the products) and buying a cobb and getting a custom dyno tune. Its not just about what products (digital or not) you can create, but the relationship that is involved around it. Especially since bmw is so poorly supported right now with mods (meaning low competition).

[badass335]

Seems like he's spending more time with the "new"market!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49832

[buster84]

Originally Posted by badass335

Seems like he's spending more time with the "new"market!
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49832

Yup, i was pretty much right. If he wanted to sell products he should have opened up a store. Tuners jobs are to tune, support their tunes, products that are used to run them, but if you leave your customers hanging and move on you will fail in the end.

Now we see why shiv has been absent with everything. Looks like it might just be time to dump his products. I do not support shops that can't support the products/tunes they sell. If all they care about is new sales then you will run out of customers eventually. I bet his BMW sales dropped to an big low which is why he's working on new cars.

Eventually those new forum owners will hear about all his bad support and abandoning of his other projects to new ones and cost him new customers. Who would want to be a new customer knowing that eventually he will move on from them too. Seems to me that he's lost his repeat customers and the only thing he can do to stay afloat now is to push into a new market. Eventually that will no longer work once word of mouth gets around and users who own both cars recognize whats going on and post their revues of that "vender".

This explains why he doesn't do monthly dyno days, bbq's ect... He's probably gone though so many different cars and customers that he can't keep up with what he's doing that he has no time to even provide that level of support and relationship with his customers. Its truly sad to see. I guess the bmw crowd has one less tuner now, i just can't him getting new customers after this. I'm not one to bash a tuner, but i wouldn't be surprised to see mad (old customers) end up on his new forums posting links to all his failed "promises" and extremely long wait times.

[TexE90]

Wait, it's not normal to have your AFR go from ~15 to ~10-11 as you increase RPM?

[BADS335]

Originally Posted by TexE90

Wait, it's not normal to have your AFR go from ~15 to ~10-11 as you increase RPM?

Nope. Opposite...but from like 11.5-12.5ish from low to high.

[BADS335]

As much as I can relate to you guys (since I have not heard back either)...I do not want this to turn into a Shiv thread.

I just want some help from those with experience on here to fix my issue. Yes, Shiv would be ideal, but despite the instructions to contact him, I have not heard back.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by BADS335

As much as I can relate to you guys (since I have not heard back either)...I do not want this to turn into a Shiv thread.

I just want some help from those with experience on here to fix my issue. Yes, Shiv would be ideal, but despite the instructions to contact him, I have not heard back.

I understand your concern about not turning this into a shiv thread lol, but honestly this is a very basic question that you asked and the creator of the product could easily take 5 mins of his time to reply with a short answer. It would only take him 5mins or less after looking at your log to see whats going on. It shouldn't be this hard to get an answer from the creator. Most of the people on this forum are not tuners which is why its not been easy to get the answers your looking for. I wish i could help, but i can't either.

Shiv has been answering questions on the other forums. His most recent one is to this one "I recommend sticking with Stage 1 if you are running stock headers. Especially on the 91oct we get here in CA. Stage 2 will likely be too aggressive." He just posted that less than a half hour ago yet your thread has gone unanswered 7 days. That other thread gets posts every hour or so. I'm not saying your thread should take priority over others, but the fact that he's not even responding to basic posts anymore on these forums "says a lot".

Hopefully you get your answer soon, but until a tuner comes on here (or someone that learned a lot about tunes) you might end up waiting a long time for that answer. Honestly, I say take your question and reply to his thread on that forum. I bet you'll get a reply. He wouldn't want to get his "new" fan base to see that he's not updating or answering questions on products he created.

[pwr hungry]

Originally Posted by buster84

I understand your concern about not turning this into a shiv thread lol, but honestly this is a very basic question that you asked and the creator of the product could easily take 5 mins of his time to reply with a short answer. It would only take him 5mins or less after looking at your log to see whats going on. It shouldn't be this hard to get an answer from the creator. Most of the people on this forum are not tuners which is why its not been easy to get the answers your looking for. I wish i could help, but i can't either.

Shiv has been answering questions on the other forums. His most recent one is to this one "I recommend sticking with Stage 1 if you are running stock headers. Especially on the 91oct we get here in CA. Stage 2 will likely be too aggressive." He just posted that less than a half hour ago yet your thread has gone unanswered 7 days. That other thread gets posts every hour or so. I'm not saying your thread should take priority over others, but the fact that he's not even responding to basic posts anymore on these forums "says a lot".

Hopefully you get your answer soon, but until a tuner comes on here (or someone that learned a lot about tunes) you might end up waiting a long time for that answer. Honestly, I say take your question and reply to his thread on that forum. I bet you'll get a reply. He wouldn't want to get his "new" fan base to see that he's not updating or answering questions on products he created.

Your posts are so painfully long for forum posts, that after your first I quit reading after the first sentence or two. So, just a heads up...clear, concise and to the point...assuming you want an audience of course.

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by buster84

From what I've seen over the last summer...

I've been here in 2009, and on the subie/evo forums previously. This is nothing new. Newbies just don't know yet, and informing them gets you banned. So yea...

Originally Posted by BADS335

No, nothing from shiv. Pulls are 3rd gear. This is stacked. Shivs instructions in the video say to make the AFR tables 50 and OL I think 30 or 50.

So does the AFR table need to be 0 or 50?

I doubt the tagets are what I am seeing. It does not make sense to go from 15:1 down low to 10:1 AFR up top. So if I am hitting target, then the target is way off. But what is driving the target? And why is the target way off?

Yes, sorry, in the procede, "zeroing" the AFR table is setting all cells to 50. I assume you've done this to both Map1 and Map2 AFR tables. No meth right?

I suspect that its the AFR targets in the flash, AFRs like these were common in the newly introduced "Agressive Stage 3" maps, and my car targeted 10.1 AFR at 6500 RPM, and I've seen it where people mailed their DMEs to vishnu and had the wrong flash loaded and mailed back to them.

Suggest learning tunerpro and modifying the fuel tables yourself, reflash and re-log.

Also, a log of Bank1 and Bank2 would be nice.

[Iceberg3232]

Originally Posted by Tzu

I've been here in 2009, and on the subie/evo forums previously. This is nothing new. Newbies just don't know yet, and informing them gets you banned. So yea...



Yes, sorry, in the procede, "zeroing" the AFR table is setting all cells to 50. I assume you've done this to both Map1 and Map2 AFR tables. No meth right?

I suspect that its the AFR targets in the flash, AFRs like these were common in the newly introduced "Agressive Stage 3" maps, and my car targeted 10.1 AFR at 6500 RPM, and I've seen it where people mailed their DMEs to vishnu and had the wrong flash loaded and mailed back to them.

Suggest learning tunerpro and modifying the fuel tables yourself, reflash and re-log.

Also, a log of Bank1 and Bank2 would be nice.

+1

[BADS335]

I will post up a log with more inputs (both banks). For some reason one computer (laptops) defaults to one set and the other both but I didn't realize it when I was logging the posted file.

I have some 50/50 e85 logs that show more. Since the base DME flash is the same, I think it will also help.

[TexE90]

Originally Posted by BADS335

Nope. Opposite...but from like 11.5-12.5ish from low to high.

Are you sure? Every log I've seen has AFR falling from 14ish to 11ish as engine speed increases.

[BADS335]

Ok. I tried to load the other files I have but they are over 2Mb. I also tried to cut the raw data down but then I cannot open it in the procede data log tool. I suppose I could still try to load it and see if it works in datazap.

[BADS335]

Originally Posted by TexE90

Are you sure? Every log I've seen has AFR falling from 14ish to 11ish as engine speed increases.

How aggressively though? Mine is almost linear from high to low. I should not see anything in the 14s at full boost. Not for more than a second or so. I understand lean spikes. But thats would they should be...spikes. This is spiking and gradually richening. I will look at more logs myself but I truely believe this is way off. I have never seen a tuner tune an engine lean to rich...usually rich to lean...rich down low (11.5-12ish) to reduce KR potential and maximize torque and lean up to to maximize HP. And when I say lean I mean 12.8-13:1. That is typical for an NA motor. Boosted usually are richer.

[DesertDude]

Originally Posted by BADS335

How aggressively though? Mine is almost linear from high to low. I should not see anything in the 14s at full boost. Not for more than a second or so. I understand lean spikes. But thats would they should be...spikes. This is spiking and gradually richening. I will look at more logs myself but I truely believe this is way off. I have never seen a tuner tune an engine lean to rich...usually rich to lean...rich down low (11.5-12ish) to reduce KR potential and maximize torque and lean up to to maximize HP. And when I say lean I mean 12.8-13:1. That is typical for an NA motor. Boosted usually are richer.

Boosted, Direct Injection engines can get away with much leaner AFR values, especially in the lower RPMs even under full boost. Your AFRs look like they match the ones in the back end flash pretty closely. Even the stock fuel tables start in the 14s and ramp down to the mid 11s as the RPMs increase under full boost.

I don't think your issues are related to AFRs. Your boost is really slow to rise even though the boost set point is much higher. I'm guessing your WGDC or PID values in the Procede map you are running should be looked at. (Since the Procede is handling boost and the Wastegates).

Just my thoughts...

[WedgePerformance]

OP, you're in good hands with @DesertDude @Iceberg3232 and @Tzu as they know what they are talking about.

Looking at your logs, I don't think you have any issues. Although it's a little rich for me, but like the guys said you need to learn TunerPRO so you can modify your own tables.

When you let off the throttle, you'll see 21 AFR and just steady speed you'll be at 14.7. This is standard for our car. So if you see it go from 15:1 to 11:1 that's what the DME is targeting and trust me when I say this, the DME is spot on when it comes to hitting fuel targets.

Go into your Global User Adjustable Parameters and increase your Boost Control Gain. This will make your car more responsive. I normally run that at 65, but that might be a bit much for your liking. You'll just need to play with the setting to see what works best for you.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

OP, you're in good hands with @DesertDude @Iceberg3232 and @Tzu as they know what they are talking about.

Looking at your logs, I don't think you have any issues. Although it's a little rich for me, but like the guys said you need to learn TunerPRO so you can modify your own tables.

When you let off the throttle, you'll see 21 AFR and just steady speed you'll be at 14.7. This is standard for our car. So if you see it go from 15:1 to 11:1 that's what the DME is targeting and trust me when I say this, the DME is spot on when it comes to hitting fuel targets.

Go into your Global User Adjustable Parameters and increase your Boost Control Gain. This will make your car more responsive. I normally run that at 65, but that might be a bit much for your liking. You'll just need to play with the setting to see what works best for you.

Pretty much because shiv is no longer supporting these forums apparently. He's still posting well on those forums, but ignoring the n54 crowd.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/searc...archid=4597817

[WedgePerformance]

Originally Posted by buster84

Pretty much because shiv is no longer supporting these forums apparently. He's still posting well on those forums, but ignoring the n54 crowd.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/searc...archid=4594641

[buster84]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

Thats what she said

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

OP, you're in good hands with @DesertDude @Iceberg3232 and @Tzu as they know what they are talking about.


Go into your Global User Adjustable Parameters and increase your Boost Control Gain. This will make your car more responsive. I normally run that at 65, but that might be a bit much for your liking. You'll just need to play with the setting to see what works best for you.

65

Wow......I run 55 and thought that was already very high.

Does the boost ramp up faster at 65?