[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Glowin

PS When doing the math (correct me if I'm wrong), it's hard to justify getting it though... A nice Cobb tune runs about $750, for which you'll get around 75 HP increase (not at the wheels...)

Whereas with a FMIC, I'll be into it $1500 all in probably, and I might get 25 to 30 more HP, though I'm sure the power curve will also be better (I know it's not just the peak number that counts). Since I don't plan on tracking the car, or ever adding meth to it, I wonder if it's worth doing it...

So I'm thinking I might be better off spending that money elsewhere to get more enjoyment out of the car, like on swaybars, and other things.

Convince me why I should get a FMIC!

You shouldn't.

$400, Nitrous. Pick your power

Take advantage of the ER Black Friday sale going on now.

[Glowin]

In my case, on my 335, I went straight from 1 to 2+, because it's not just the bump in power I justified, but I track my car, so a FMIC was a necessity, plus, it opens up the possibilities of running on race gas too, which I might at some point, so the potential value was much higher.

It's tougher to do that on the wagon I drive evenings and weekends...

But tempting nonetheless!

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Glowin

I'm Stage 2+ in my RWD 335, which I track a few days a year (so getting a FMIC was a necessity), but our family car luckily has also got an N54 engine (535 wagon), which is just Stage 1 right now, and it got me thinking if it would be worth it upgrading it to 2+ also...

To keep it apples to apples, and the fact that the 335 is RWD whereas the 535 is AWD, I wanted to get approximate crank HP numbers, rather than at the wheels.

Here is my thinking: I think I've read that stage 1 Aggressive in the 335 will give you about a 75 HP bump to 375, and stage 2+ would be about 425. Is that about right?

To go from stage 1 to 2+, I'd be into it about $2k for the DP's and FMIC and install, so if the numbers above are right, I guess I have to ask myself if it's worth it spending $2k for a 50 CHP gain...

Thoughts and comments and corrections welcome.

Depending on where you live in "Seattle" you have access to E85. Your best bang for the buck by far is to call up PTF Tuning and get a custom remote tune done for E30-E40. This will give you more power than going stage 2+ on Cobb's pump gas maps and it will drive better.

[Glowin]

Hmmm... For some reason I thought you need to be Stage 2+ to run E30 maps. So you can run them on Stage 1+ hardware too?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Hmmm... For some reason I thought you need to be Stage 2+ to run E30 maps. So you can run them on Stage 1+ hardware too?

You can run E30 on a stock car if you so desired. So as long as you tune for it.

[BMWM.D.]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Pros:

Lower backpressure, can evacuate gas more efficiently
Lower EGT, less heat on the turbos
Sound

Cons:

Illegal
Smell
Smoke

Agreed. I'll add to that:

cons:

More engine mechanical/turbo/wastegate noise
Won't pass SMOG (sniffer test)
Will most likely void your powertrain or emissions warranties

Doesn't stop me from running a set on my car, but there are downsides to catless downpipes.

[BMWM.D.]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Pros:

Lower backpressure, can evacuate gas more efficiently
Lower EGT, less heat on the turbos
Sound

Cons:

Illegal
Smell
Smoke

Agreed. I'll add to that:

cons:

More engine mechanical/turbo/wastegate noise
Won't pass SMOG (sniffer test)
Will most likely void your powertrain or emissions warranties

Doesn't stop me from running a set on my car, but there are downsides to catless downpipes.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Hmmm... For some reason I thought you need to be Stage 2+ to run E30 maps. So you can run them on Stage 1+ hardware too?

If you tune for it and have the ability you could theoretically run straight E85 on an otherwise bone stock car. E85 doesn’t require certain hardware to be useful, its’ chemical properties are what they are.

But to be clear- you CANNOT run Cobb E30 maps on a non-FBO car. Too much heat.

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Agreed. I'll add to that:

cons:

More engine mechanical/turbo/wastegate noise
Won't pass SMOG (sniffer test)
Will most likely void your powertrain or emissions warranties

Doesn't stop me from running a set on my car, but there are downsides to catless downpipes.

Yep.

Which is why people should get a front mount before downpipes

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Hmmm... For some reason I thought you need to be Stage 2+ to run E30 maps. So you can run them on Stage 1+ hardware too?

Nope. Ran E50 on my car all summer. The only mods are a DCI. Car makes 40 more whp and 65 ft. lbs. more torque on my stage 1 E50 map versus Cobb Stage 1 aggressive map.

Stock:
270whp/270 ft. lbs.

Cobb Stage 1 Aggressive:
330whp/385 ft. lbs.

E50 tuned by me:
370whp/450 ft. lbs.

Car ran 13.65 @ 102 mph stock 2,300 ft. above sea level with density altitude around 3,500 ft.

Car ran 12.65 @ 112 mph with DCI and E50 tune 2,300 ft. above sea level with density altitude around 4,100 ft.

I would like to do an E50 tune with PTF in the summer. I suspect they can get me another 20-30 whp over what I have been able to achieve on my own.

[buylongterm]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Personally, I'd do the intercooler upgrade in a heartbeat. Obviously, it doesn't give you the hp gains / $$$ that tuning does, but nothing is going to match that. That was kind of my point above.

When I was still running OTS 91 octane maps, switching from stage 1 to stage 1+ made quite the difference. Sorry, I don't have any dynos for that mapping to give you any actual numbers. If you look at the OTS Cobb maps in ATR, you'll see some nice load increases (at least in the midrange) with the + maps.

Besides the extra power from the tuning, you'll get more consistency on the street. Intercoolers are win/win if you ask me. Downpipes have some trade-offs IMO, but I don't think you have anything to lose with a FMIC upgrade.

Couldn't agree more. I just got a Helix FMIC installed, and going from Stage 1 aggressive to stage 1+ aggressive FMIC was night and day. Huge difference.