[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by Socom

This is emphatically false. Please stop with the bullsh!t.

In what way is my statement false?

[Puerto Rican 335d]

ok amigos no fighting Im in for it as it will benefit EVERYONE here with a D, so lets get started

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

In what way is my statement false?

CPO/used are an integral part of a cars life cycle. Without strong demand on the used market BMW can't justify the residual values for leases. This is important because leasing is a HUGE segment of their new car sales.

How else do you think the typical 3 series owner can afford a $55k car?

[Puerto Rican 335d]

that so true Socom many BMW buyers buy leased up cars. Not many can afford a new car and a leased CPO is the best way to purchase a BMW

[Jhayd11]

Originally Posted by Socom

They're driven harder in Europe. UK cars have these problems too.

They are set up differently, have more horse power, and better diesel fuels. As for driven harder... not sure how you measure that...

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by Jhayd11

They are set up differently, have more horse power, and better diesel fuels. As for driven harder... not sure how you measure that...

As far as the driven harder part, from my anecdotal experience of driving the autobahns at high speed for 5 years, you can and do spend a lot more time at higher revs than our quick bursts here in the US. It is just the way of driving over there. As one small example, a very typical trip involved me getting through the old border crossing down near Basel and driving in excess of 100 mph the whole way to Frankfurt. That's roughly 200 miles and sustained high revs for a couple of hours or more. Although traffic has changed some since I was there, that is a very typical application of the car over there. UK is a different story because they have different traffic laws.

Here in the USA you are lucky if you can sustain any high speeds for more than a few minutes.

None of this may matter, but it seems to me that it does.

[Jhayd11]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

In what way is my statement false?

Dixy2k, I am with SOCOM on this one... BMW is pretty good about protecting it's secondary market compared to my experience with other manufactures. I bought my D used, from a non BMW dealer. BMW NA put in a lot of effort and money to fix my car, out of warranty. If they didn't care, I would have been 12k in the whole with a broken car. The dealership even bought my car back at "good" market value, even though they can't get the code to clear without serious effort.

Additionally, BMWNA sent a rep out when I was having the full overhaul, so they could document their findings and report back to HQ.

This is just a shitty situation for all.

[Jhayd11]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

As far as the driven harder part, from my anecdotal experience of driving the autobahns at high speed for 5 years, you can and do spend a lot more time at higher revs than our quick bursts here in the US. It is just the way of driving over there. As one small example, a very typical trip involved me getting through the old border crossing down near Basel and driving in excess of 100 mph the whole way to Frankfurt. That's roughly 200 miles and sustained high revs for a couple of hours or more. Although traffic has changed some since I was there, that is a very typical application of the car over there. UK is a different story because they have different traffic laws.

Here in the USA you are lucky if you can sustain any high speeds for more than a few minutes.

None of this may matter, but it seems to me that it does.

UK has different set up and better fuels, with very few problems with their version of the engine yet they have traffic situations similar to ours.

To highlight how different ours is set up:
335D e90 286 PS and 580 Nm
335D e90 US Spec 269 PS and 576Nm

Additionally, although the autobahn is great, that is one situation... some people still have city driving to deal with and traffic.

[acewiza]

Originally Posted by Socom

Good question. Today's diesels create significantly more power which requires more fuel and resulting soot.

That is a misleading if not false statement in the context of this conversation. BMW introduced the 335D into the U.S. market with the cleanest EVER diesel exhaust system designed specifically for the American market. Making more power comes from more efficient combustion at any given fueling level. Dirty, hot, inefficient fueling is what makes "more" soot.

The 335D would never have come to the U.S. if that were the case.

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by Jhayd11

Additionally, although the autobahn is great, that is one situation... some people still have city driving to deal with and traffic.

True, I was giving a sample size of one, my own driving characteristics involving a lot of time on the autobahn. I suppose there are a lot of folks that don't have the city-autobahn ratio that I did, but Germany is a smaller place, and the autobahns appear to play a bigger part in your typical European's driving habits. But to be clear, that is just my observation with no scientific study to back it up.

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by Jhayd11

Dixy2k, I am with SOCOM on this one... BMW is pretty good about protecting it's secondary market compared to my experience with other manufactures. I bought my D used, from a non BMW dealer. BMW NA put in a lot of effort and money to fix my car, out of warranty. If they didn't care, I would have been 12k in the whole with a broken car. The dealership even bought my car back at "good" market value, even though they can't get the code to clear without serious effort.

Additionally, BMWNA sent a rep out when I was having the full overhaul, so they could document their findings and report back to HQ.

This is just a shitty situation for all.

I am not intimate with the story of your car, I just guess it was under warranty. Maybe even a lemon law applied to your case.

If the car is being sold outside the dealer network, how could BMW make any money off of that transaction. This is what I meant. They cannot make money twice on the same car if it is being transferred privately.
The only way the dealer makes money in that case is by performing warranty work, being paid by the manufacturer or the extended warranty company.

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by acewiza

That is a misleading if not false statement in the context of this conversation. BMW introduced the 335D into the U.S. market with the cleanest EVER diesel exhaust system designed specifically for the American market. Making more power comes from more efficient combustion at any given fueling level. Dirty, hot, inefficient fueling is what makes "more" soot.

The 335D would never have come to the U.S. if that were the case.

just to add to the above... incomplete fuel burning creates the black smoke we associate with soot.

[17:1]

I have 116,xxx miles on my car and just today got the SES light. We will see what it is but even my SA was concerned it would be "an injector." If there is a fundamental design problem then I think BMW has to be held accountable. Would you buy a car that you knew would develop significant engine problems after 50-70k miles? In my case I got over 100k on it but I still don't think it's reasonable.

[dixy2k]

It is not the first and only model BMW messed up, yet people still buy their cars new and used.

[mact3333]

http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm


Wish someone would do this.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Thank MACT

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by acewiza

That is a misleading if not false statement in the context of this conversation. BMW introduced the 335D into the U.S. market with the cleanest EVER diesel exhaust system designed specifically for the American market. Making more power comes from more efficient combustion at any given fueling level. Dirty, hot, inefficient fueling is what makes "more" soot.

The 335D would never have come to the U.S. if that were the case.

I was thinking when compared to your older VW diesel 80' era I believe. I think that's what you were referencing. I would think this I6 making 3x the power of a 4 cylinder 80 era diesel would produce a significantly greater amount of exhaust gas. Tuning aside. Like I said...who knows.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

It is not the first and only model BMW messed up, yet people still buy their cars new and used.

Very true. BMW seems to have more than their share of problems although it seems Toyota has been in the news a lot as well.

I really wonder whether BMW would've warrantied the HPFP On the N54 if it weren't for the CBS news story (60 minutes?).

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by 17:1

Would you buy a car that you knew would develop significant engine problems after 50-70k miles? In my case I got over 100k on it but I still don't think it's reasonable.

people used to do this all the time. Though those cars came with prancing horses and bulls on their hood instead of a simple roundel on a commuter car.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Socom

I was thinking when compared to your older VW diesel 80' era I believe. I think that's what you were referencing. I would think this I6 making 3x the power of a 4 cylinder 80 era diesel would produce a significantly greater amount of exhaust gas. Tuning aside. Like I said...who knows.

soot and exhaust gas are not one in the same. A 20 HP kubota diesel could put out plumes of soot if not tuned right while our 265 HP diesel is capable of much lower soot output due to much better tuning capability. Additionally the engine only makes that power at full fuel, when youre cruising on the freeway youre using less power than most of those 80s diesels due to the far better aero, so you require less to begin with, then get cleaner combustion, DPF, cat(s), and urea.

[r.carson]

Not real pleased with the way my engine has been cared for...

In my opinion, the burden of selling this car for market value shouldn't be on me. BMW has the engine problems and dealership has the workmanship problems.

81 days and counting (over 5 months of shop time in 37 months of ownership)

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Sounds like a lemon to me carson