[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by rockbien

I didn't see the head with the other parts. It was definitely off cause I could see the short block in the engine bay. Maybe they had it in the parts washer or had sent it out somewhere.

Then they are definitely cleaning it.
One thing you can look into is when and what mileage was the redesigned EGR valve and software installed before, if ever. This should be on the CBS report the Service Adviser can give you. Just ask him/her. This will be a good indication if the old EGR valve is to blame for all the excessive build up.

Now that you will have a clean head and intake, you can look into tunes and shut off or minimize EGR.

None the less, even with these emissions issues, you are not going to find another car this powerful that also yields 36+ MPG.

Good luck and let us know if you need any advice. Few of us have been down this road. Mine was 10,000 miles ago; it was a 4 month ordeal at the dealership.

meanwhile, enjoy the loaners!

[daveN007]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Former, respectively I disagree. Per the lead tech at my dealership last week, there is NO BMW approved media blasting process yet rolled out to the dealers for diesels. Mine was torn down cleaned and build back up by hand.

Cost estimate for such a procedure if you had to pay for it?

[montr]

Assuming cleaning + intake manifold + labor is around $5K and need to done every 50K miles (just past warranty). The cost end up to $0.10 per miles. In my mix everyday driving, I get around 27 mpg and fuel is about $3.80/gallons.

Fuel is $0.14 per miles and carbon buildup end up to $0.10 per miles. My math tell me, the 335d cost per miles is the same as car doing 15.8 mpg

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by montr

Assuming cleaning + intake manifold + labor is around $5K and need to done every 50K miles (just past warranty). The cost end up to $0.10 per miles. In my mix everyday driving, I get around 27 mpg and fuel is about $3.80/gallons.

Fuel is $0.14 per miles and carbon buildup end up to $0.10 per miles. My math tell me, the 335d cost per miles is the same as car doing 15.8 mpg

don't forget to add the cost of the Urea.

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Former, respectively I disagree. Per the lead tech at my dealership last week, there is NO BMW approved media blasting process yet rolled out to the dealers for diesels. Mine was torn down cleaned and build back up by hand.

Originally Posted by Hoooper

not BMW approved and not possible are two different things. It has already been done at least once, as seen here http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=917982&page=3

Yup. Sorry if I caused any confusion. I did not mean to infer that this was suggested by the OEM. @Mark M, you are always well on top of this stuff. The kit used by dealers to walnut blast the n54 engine does not bear the same dimensions as what would be needed for our vehicle. To the best of our knowledge, there has not been any recommendation by BMW to have this done yet.

However, I know of at least 1 local shop which is willing & able to perform this task for our engines. All it really requires is a different blocking plate & vacuum adapter and/or a lot of patience.* Personally, I am curious to find out how much of this is true "carbon" (as in hard carbon) and how much is the grainy, oily gunk that seems to want to coat our intakes post EGR.

*Edit: note that this would not address the head issues.

On a semi-related note, does anyone else think that the oil blow-by from our crankcase ventilation could be at least partially caused by oil seals in the swirl flaps weeping. I was recently reading a thread of one of our across-the-pond counterparts and (given theirs is a different system to some extent) it seamed as if it could be at least plausible.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by FormerRotor

Yup. Sorry if I caused any confusion. I did not mean to infer that this was suggested by the OEM. @Mark M, you are always well on top of this stuff. The kit used by dealers to walnut blast the n54 engine does not bear the same dimensions as what would be needed for our vehicle. To the best of our knowledge, there has not been any recommendation by BMW to have this done yet.

However, I know of at least 1 local shop which is willing & able to perform this task for our engines. All it really requires is a different blocking plate & vacuum adapter and/or a lot of patience.* Personally, I am curious to find out how much of this is true "carbon" (as in hard carbon) and how much is the grainy, oily gunk that seems to want to coat our intakes post EGR.

*Edit: note that this would not address the head issues.

On a semi-related note, does anyone else think that the oil blow-by from our crankcase ventilation could be at least partially caused by oil seals in the swirl flaps weeping. I was recently reading a thread of one of our across-the-pond counterparts and (given theirs is a different system to some extent) it seamed as if it could be at least plausible.

Judging by the amount of oil I saw when I popped off the charge tube which connects to the throttle plate/egr I would say most comes from the turbo seals.

Mine had a small.pool if oil.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by montr

Assuming cleaning + intake manifold + labor is around $5K and need to done every 50K miles (just past warranty). The cost end up to $0.10 per miles. In my mix everyday driving, I get around 27 mpg and fuel is about $3.80/gallons.

Fuel is $0.14 per miles and carbon buildup end up to $0.10 per miles. My math tell me, the 335d cost per miles is the same as car doing 15.8 mpg

If the intake can be reused I would think that alone would cost $200 to clean. There are some cleaners (3M/Liqui Moly) that do a good job on oily carbon buildup.

I would think about $3k split 50/50. The labor is the bitch. At least you'd get an oil.change and coolant flush out of it. Lol.

Per RealOEM the new parts for the head such as gaskets, fasteners and for the intake (not intake itself) runs about $600. I doubt the intake itself is more than $500. New coolant and motor oil about $100. Another $500-$600 for the same with regards to the fuel system.

$1500 labor.

We really don't know which fasteners and gaskets are reusable and whether the technician does the least amount of dis-assembling. If he takes everything apart and those parts can't be reused then the cost goes up.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by FormerRotor

On a semi-related note, does anyone else think that the oil blow-by from our crankcase ventilation could be at least partially caused by oil seals in the swirl flaps weeping. I was recently reading a thread of one of our across-the-pond counterparts and (given theirs is a different system to some extent) it seamed as if it could be at least plausible.

I don't believe there is any oil present there aside from what comes through the intake. The swirl flaps are just on bushings, not oiled bearings.

[FormerRotor]

@socom, I'm no expert in these things, turbo seals sounds plausible. With that said, wouldn't this mean that it is coming from the turbos, through the charge pipe, intake etc, and back out through the CCV (considering that we are finding quite a bit of oil in the post-ccv tube)? This would make it unlikely that our catch can idea would have much affect, would it not (considering how far downstream of the root cause it would be?

@hoooper, I was just checking them out & I think you're right...not sure what the Op of that thread was getting at.

I think we're going to have to get a few of these catch cans installed to determine how much of an effect they have on the oil in the intake issue (and to see how much Oil is collected -- if any).

[Timujin]

Very sad to see another post. There really should be some sort of window into this manifold to monitor this condition before it gets to what THIS looks like. Terrible...SMMFH

[AzureHaze]

And the bad news keeps on rolling on this diesel forum.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by FormerRotor

@socom, I'm no expert in these things, turbo seals sounds plausible. With that said, wouldn't this mean that it is coming from the turbos, through the charge pipe, intake etc, and back out through the CCV (considering that we are finding quite a bit of oil in the post-ccv tube)? This would make it unlikely that our catch can idea would have much affect, would it not (considering how far downstream of the root cause it would be?

@hoooper, I was just checking them out & I think you're right...not sure what the Op of that thread was getting at.

I think we're going to have to get a few of these catch cans installed to determine how much of an effect they have on the oil in the intake issue (and to see how much Oil is collected -- if any).

Yep.

I think someone mentioned that the intercooler itself acts as a catch can of sorts. I have no idea where the CCV is located. Supposedly some leakeage via turbo seals is normal in gas and diesel applications, but I seriously don't know.

[TDIwyse]

Well ... there's been success in removing 1 of the big contributors to this issue.

There is a way to significantly reduce EGR utilization by simply messing with the EGR cooler temp sensor using a diode. Hooper and myself have done and verified it. It will throw a code (which is easily dealt with if you have a device to clear codes), but doesn't impact performance. And I think Hooper (please correct me if my memory is correct) has noticed a reduction in buildup in his intake after running this mod combined with methanol for awhile.

And Ecotune now has a path to eliminate EGR and be code free with a little help from a simple to make EGR blocking plate. See the DPF delete thread for more details.

So, there is at least "some" good news on this issue.

[dixy2k]

Hope it works well

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Well ... there's been success in removing 1 of the big contributors to this issue.

There is a way to significantly reduce EGR utilization by simply messing with the EGR cooler temp sensor using a diode. Hooper and myself have done and verified it. It will throw a code (which is easily dealt with if you have a device to clear codes), but doesn't impact performance. And I think Hooper (please correct me if my memory is correct) has noticed a reduction in buildup in his intake after running this mod combined with methanol for awhile.

And Ecotune now has a path to eliminate EGR and be code free with a little help from a simple to make EGR blocking plate. See the DPF delete thread for more details.

So, there is at least "some" good news on this issue.

That's great to hear. I'm leaning more and more toward calling up ecotune as they seem to be the only ones offering comprehensive solutions for our vehicles. Would you say that you are pleased with them thus far?

I know youre using a blocking plate, but Are you able to remove the EGR assembly and block on the exhaust side after performing this? I'd suspect that there is some weight (and heat & clutter) savings to be found by performing this. It'd be great to remove DPF, EGR and SCR but keep DOC in place (gotta keep it a little green). The weight savings from removal of all that equipment would be a bit ridiculous.

[rockbien]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Well ... there's been success in removing 1 of the big contributors to this issue.

There is a way to significantly reduce EGR utilization by simply messing with the EGR cooler temp sensor using a diode. Hooper and myself have done and verified it. It will throw a code (which is easily dealt with if you have a device to clear codes), but doesn't impact performance. And I think Hooper (please correct me if my memory is correct) has noticed a reduction in buildup in his intake after running this mod combined with methanol for awhile.

And Ecotune now has a path to eliminate EGR and be code free with a little help from a simple to make EGR blocking plate. See the DPF delete thread for more details.

So, there is at least "some" good news on this issue.

This sounds good! I wonder if a scientific approach might shed light on the source of the deposits. Has anyone ever tried to perform elemental analysis on the deposits like they do for used oil? From my reading it seems like there are several potential sources that contribute to build up. The build up in my intake looked like stuff that had been charred in my grill combined with fresh oil to make a tar-like cement. I've never seen the build up in an egr valve. Does it look the same as build up in the intake?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by rockbien

This sounds good! I wonder if a scientific approach might shed light on the source of the deposits. Has anyone ever tried to perform elemental analysis on the deposits like they do for used oil? From my reading it seems like there are several potential sources that contribute to build up. The build up in my intake looked like stuff that had been charred in my grill combined with fresh oil to make a tar-like cement. I've never seen the build up in an egr valve. Does it look the same as build up in the intake?

It's oil vapor (probably from turbos) mixed with the soot that is let in by the EGR. The oil mist coats the soot particles causing them adhere to each other and accumulate(sp?) inside the walls of the intake and the runners going through the cylinder head.

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Well ... there's been success in removing 1 of the big contributors to this issue.


And Ecotune now has a path to eliminate EGR and be code free with a little help from a simple to make EGR blocking plate. See the DPF delete thread for more details.

So, there is at least "some" good news on this issue.

How about Renntech's EGR delete codes? Have you heard anything about it?
As far as I can tell there is only one member here with Renntech tune and EGR software delete.
Anybody else?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by FormerRotor

That's great to hear. I'm leaning more and more toward calling up ecotune as they seem to be the only ones offering comprehensive solutions for our vehicles. Would you say that you are pleased with them thus far?

I know youre using a blocking plate, but Are you able to remove the EGR assembly and block on the exhaust side after performing this? I'd suspect that there is some weight (and heat & clutter) savings to be found by performing this. It'd be great to remove DPF, EGR and SCR but keep DOC in place (gotta keep it a little green). The weight savings from removal of all that equipment would be a bit ridiculous.

Well, there's been good and not so good in our relationship so far.

Good: After two rounds we have a workable solution without codes. That's really, really good. Power, fuel economy, and no EGR is (in my opinion) a good thing.

Not so good: I didn't get what I paid for the first time, took a lot of fussing around to demonstrate the issue, and had to remove and pay 2 more shipping fee's (there and back) to get something with the DDE that work without EGR and without codes. I've also paid ~$400 to ship the DPF to Scottland after being talked into it with the promise I'd get a free US compatible downpipe, and still haven't received the downpipe. It's too cold to work out in my garage where the lift is to remove the DPF again anyway, so I'm not in a hurry for the downpipe. But I'd like to get my promised downpipe considering the ~3 weeks of down time and amount of money involved in shipment...

Right now the DOC is still in place. I think that is a good thing to have and I'm glad the exhaust is working well with the remap.

Got a path to remove the EGR cooler that I'm hoping to do over Christmas break from work. Bought a used EGR cooler off ebay a couple weeks ago that I've used for some of the fab work.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

How about Renntech's EGR delete codes? Have you heard anything about it?
As far as I can tell there is only one member here with Renntech tune and EGR software delete.
Anybody else?

I am not familiar with the Renntech tune specifics.

[dixy2k]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Got a path to remove the EGR cooler that I'm hoping to do over Christmas break from work. Bought a used EGR cooler off ebay a couple weeks ago that I've used for some of the fab work.

You got my respect for taking one (after another) for the team.
I did something similar with an intercooler.


Do you plan on eliminating the EGR cooler all together?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

You got my respect for taking one (after another) for the team.
I did something similar with an intercooler.


Do you plan on eliminating the EGR cooler all together?

Thanks.

Yes, the plan is to remove the EGR cooler to eliminate the risk of cracking/damaging the cooler and potentially leaking coolant into places it should not go, or leaking exhaust into the engine bay.

There has been some feedback that removing the cooler will cause issues with the cooling system. It's not obvious to me why this would happen with our US version. But I'll report back either way.