[vertspeed]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I think your 10w7 might work as well! What does the birth sheet say on your PDX? Let me model those bad boys again, I'll post the results shortly.

Wish I would have saw this post last night, I'm at work now and can't get to the birth sheet. If I remember correctly I think it tested at 540ish but isn't that at like 14+ volts or something high which isn't really a normal output from our cars batteries? Yeah maybe I should try the 10w7 in IB before I buy something else and see how it sounds. Approx trunk dimensions I pulled from the net are: 29.5" wide, 15.5" high, ~31" long/deep with the top up. Top down I estimate that you lose about 6" deep x 28" long x 28" wide roughly..

[kaigoss69]

I modeled the JL10W7, IDmax 12, JBL 12 Gti and Dyn Esotar1200 in 14 cubic feet (12 cf trunk volume plus some extra to account for the leaks). I used 500W for each sub. When the curves turn to straight lines is when the motors reach xmax. It shows the IDMax will get the loudest with 500W.

[kaigoss69]

What these models can't show is behavior past xmax. Some subs can go way past xmax in a somewhat linear fashion, others cannot. All the above subs have a reputation for being able to take much more than the rated maximum wattage and being able to play past xmax. Another thing the model can't predict is how the subs will sound. There you have to either listen yourself or read reviews by experienced users who have heard more than just that one sub play. Then general consensus is that you can't go wrong with the either sub. The Dyn is a pure SQ sub, whereas the others are considered SQL (SQ and SPL).

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

What these models can't show is behavior past xmax. Some subs can go way past xmax in a somewhat linear fashion, others cannot. All the above subs have a reputation for being able to take much more than the rated maximum wattage and being able to play past xmax. Another thing the model can't predict is how the subs will sound. There you have to either listen yourself or read reviews by experienced users who have heard more than just that one sub play. Then general consensus is that you can't go wrong with the either sub. The Dyn is a pure SQ sub, whereas the others are considered SQL (SQ and SPL).

You should model the fi q against the idmax. The q has a higher xmax and a higher power handling. The idmax has a lower fs though, so I am kind of curious how they compare.

I'm pretty sure PSI even makes recones with extended coils for the q.

[vertspeed]

Nice work on the modeling! Now I'm thoroughly conflicted on which one to get haha. Definitely leaning toward the IDmax now, it's beautiful looking too. Hmmm....

[kaigoss69]

I added the FiQ and the JL 12W7. Looks like W7 takes second place in SPL department. Not sure though if 12W7 can be fitted into e93 because of the way it is mounted.

[bmw325i]

I like the way the Q graphs out, especially under 30 hz. It has a higher power handling than the IDmax so I'm not sure, they might be about the same loudness with some extra power.

The w7 also looks like a good choice.

[bmw325i]

Would you mind graphing one more sub? Please.

I want to see how this PSI sub graphs out in infinite baffle it probably needs more power though, around 1200 watts. Could you graph it against the Q with 750 watts?

http://psicaraudio.com/products-page...3-subwoofer-2/

[thaar]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

The AE is a very tame sounding subwoofer. It is a great sub, very transparent and efficient, but not enough kick you in the ass kind of response when called for. It is not "brutal" enough for me, if that makes sense. Perhaps a single AE is not capable of doing that, and I would need a pair which is not going to happen. From everything I've read, what I really want is either the JBL or the IDMax, or perhaps even a JL W7.

I completely agree. I may switch out to a JBL at some point in the near future. The AE is very musical and clean, but really can't deliver the hard hitting bass. I do think it's a great subwoofer, however, it's just not exactly what I'm looking for.

[vertspeed]

What about these budget subs, have seen them recommended on DIYMA for IB setups. They can be had for under $150 on parts express. Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4

[thaar]

I haven't heard one in person, but they certainly get a lot of praise on DIYMA. I imagine they are more musical and clean similar to the AE, however. I think I modeled a Dayton sub a couple of years ago, but it was for a small sealed enclosure, and don't remember the results.

All this talk is giving me the itch to replace my sub now lol.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by vertspeed

What about these budget subs, have seen them recommended on DIYMA for IB setups. They can be had for under $150 on parts express. Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4

please.

[e90TiAg335i]

Someone on caraudio.com has a couple Fi Q 12s for sale. If you're interested.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by e90TiAg335i

Someone on caraudio.com has a couple Fi Q 12s for sale. If you're interested.

Too bad they have internal leads.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

Would you mind graphing one more sub? Please.

I want to see how this PSI sub graphs out in infinite baffle it probably needs more power though, around 1200 watts. Could you graph it against the Q with 750 watts?

http://psicaraudio.com/products-page...3-subwoofer-2/

I just looked at the specs and with a Qts of 0.27 I think this sub is not suited for IB. It says it is good for ported boxes only!

[vertspeed]

what about the Dayton? Also have you hear of incriminator audio, I believe its their flatlyne model that's good for IB.

[e90TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

Too bad they have internal leads.

Shouldn't be an issue as long as you don't go past xmech. Regardless, I'd be using a subsonic filter with anything that's been modeled so far. Sure some of them may be able to play to their listed xmax/xmech and possibly beyond, but is it really worth the risk when the models show anywhere from 35hz down they are driven to their limit. One thing Kai hasn't posted, and surprisingly no one has asked for, is the cone excursion graphs. You should all be concerned with in this application. Although, if you dial back the power as Kai has suggested. To about half of the drivers Pe, then everything should be fine.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I just looked at the specs and with a Qts of 0.27 I think this sub is not suited for IB. It says it is good for ported boxes only!

I think your right, but if its not too much trouble would you mind graphing it anyways? None of the other subs are meant for infinite baffle either so you never know. I'm not sure the low qts is really a bad thing, considering the trunk isn't large enough for a real infinite baffle sub.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by e90TiAg335i

Shouldn't be an issue as long as you don't go past xmech. Regardless, I'd be using a subsonic filter with anything that's been modeled so far. Sure some of them may be able to play to their listed xmax/xmech and possibly beyond, but is it really worth the risk when the models show anywhere from 35hz down they are driven to their limit. One thing Kai hasn't posted, and surprisingly no one has asked for, is the cone excursion graphs. You should all be concerned with in this application. Although, if you dial back the power as Kai has suggested. To about half of the drivers Pe, then everything should be fine.

Yeah good point. A 25hz subsonic filter will usually take care of that problem. I don't run one and I don't have any issues with over excursion, but I also don't listen much to the type of music that contains the very low notes. Plus in IB it is very easy to hear the onsets of distortion, so there less of a chance of doing any damage if you are careful with the volume knob.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by e90TiAg335i

Shouldn't be an issue as long as you don't go past xmech. Regardless, I'd be using a subsonic filter with anything that's been modeled so far. Sure some of them may be able to play to their listed xmax/xmech and possibly beyond, but is it really worth the risk when the models show anywhere from 35hz down they are driven to their limit. One thing Kai hasn't posted, and surprisingly no one has asked for, is the cone excursion graphs. You should all be concerned with in this application. Although, if you dial back the power as Kai has suggested. To about half of the drivers Pe, then everything should be fine.

I had a 15" Fi BTL that I damaged the tinsel leads on with only half the rms rating. I got a PSI recone for it with external leads and the sub was pretty much indestructible. Under 1000 watts it would probably be ok but I would rather have external leads anyways.

I would definetly use a subsonic around 25hz. I think xmax is the most important thing for this application, so far the q has the highest xmax on the subs I've looked at.

[kaigoss69]

Sorry guys, the above graphs were wrong. I accidentally selected max spl whereas I should have used spl. This way the graphs are for the 500W (400W for the Esotar because that is the max). The other graph showe the max wattage for each driver which in this case is not applicable because we were using 500W as the available power.

[kaigoss69]

Here's the excursion graph with a 25Hz 12db/oct subsonic applied.