[Bicax]

Thanks for the swift replies.

They told me that they checked the mic and it was working well. However, I found a new mic in the package on top of the old one. I've calibrated using the new mic, haven't tried it with the old one yet.

It does sound different and better with processing active, now. The vocals are still too much "in your face", and/or I feel I'm still lacking midbass and bass, but overall it's more homogeneous/balanced. At least from what I recall it sounded like before.

However, as soon as I defeat processing the midbass is largely improved (the RTA seems spot on according to my ears).

[Bicax]

Heya,

I listened to it when coming to work this morning, and midbass and bass are clearly lacking.

I've been thinking about that LF spike, could it be due to the fact that when level matching I use the LPF trick on the underseats, and have to increase the gain to 3/4 to level match them with the other speakers?

[kaigoss69]

Hey man, lower the midbass gain a little and recalibrate. Then after calibration, if you don't have enough midbass, raise the sub and midbass gain together (this keeps the crossover point the same).

Your overall RTA curve/slope looks a lot better, but I would not necessarily trust those dips you see. Could be the phone.

To reduce the "in your face" sound, try either reducing the level of the center, or reducing the highs. From previous conversations though I believe it is the center that is too bright.

[Bicax]

The sound is generally better. At least it doesn't sound like a clockwork radio anymore

I'm going to level match everything again, and keep the underseats a few dB under the rest to see if it helps.

Should I stick to the LPF trick during level matching/calibration?

The center is too bright indeed, I figured I would lower it once I manage to fix the bass/midbass.

[taibanl]

I have center at -1dB, (2 clicks) and balance L.5dB (1 click) to taste.
Edit. Dont make them (midbass) LESS than others.
Try reducing midbass gain then recalibrate. Get as flat as possible then let ms-8 work magic.

[Bicax]

I've used both pairs of microphones, reduced gain on the midbass, reduced gain on the sub, tried different calibration levels, tried with and without the line driver (has to be with), etc.

Best results after a lot of fuss:

After calibration, with processing ACTIVE:



After calibration, with processing DEFEAT:



After calibration, processing active, and I increased the gain on midbass/sub after calibration:



My bass/midbass is too present now, the underseats vibrate. Tried toning them down, but then I lose a lot of presence. I can't listen to it anymore, will try again in a few days to see how/if I like it. Can't even tell if it's better after so many hours listening to so many different configurations.

[bmw325i]

That is the reason I didn't like the ms8. You can do 20 different calibrations and get different results each time.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by Bicax

I've used both pairs of microphones, reduced gain on the midbass, reduced gain on the sub, tried different calibration levels, tried with and without the line driver (has to be with), etc.

Best results after a lot of fuss:

After calibration, with processing ACTIVE:



After calibration, with processing DEFEAT:



After calibration, processing active, and I increased the gain on midbass/sub after calibration:



My bass/midbass is too present now, the underseats vibrate. Tried toning them down, but then I lose a lot of presence. I can't listen to it anymore, will try again in a few days to see how/if I like it. Can't even tell if it's better after so many hours listening to so many different configurations.

Are you running midbass and sub on separate channels or per kaigoss mod?

[Bicax]

Separate channels.The only kaigoss mod I'm applying is putting the sub in the back seats, and putting the LPF on the underseats amp around 200Hz during level matching and calibration.

For the rest, I'm using the same setup configuration as in my first post.

[Bicax]

By the way, 20 to 30% of my time yesterday was dedicated to fighting with the remote/screen, since they would:

- freeze;
- restart;
- when pressing up, it would go down, when pressing down, it would function as the "OK" button.

You can imagine how much time I wasted when that happened in the middle of a calibration/configuration, and I had to sometimes restart the screen, sometimes turn off everything and then back on, and restart the calibration/configuration in all cases.

I'm hesitating between sending it back for repair, or simply throwing it in the bin, taking my car to the sound shop so they work their magic without a DSP, and call it a day.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by Bicax

Separate channels.The only kaigoss mod I'm applying is putting the sub in the back seats, and putting the LPF on the underseats amp around 200Hz during level matching and calibration.

For the rest, I'm using the same setup configuration as in my first post.

Thats probably your biggest issue.

[Bicax]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Thats probably your biggest issue.

What do you mean, and what do you suggest? Do the Y-split mod? (sub + midbass in same channel and split it with a Y cable and use amp crossovers)

By the way, last week I received a reply from the JBL warranty department regarding the fact that the MS8 screen/remote is malfunctioning. They told me that it was working fine when they sent it to me, so it must be an installation issue... and that's it.

I told them that the MS8 was working perfectly fine in what concerns the remote/screen prior to be sent for repair, the installation is exactly the same, and I really don't see how an incorrectly installation could be causing the remote/screen to randomly freeze/restart/malfunction.

No reply from their side. This is the second and last JBL product I'm buying. The other product was a JBL subwoofer amp (GTO 1001EZ) that ALSO came defective right from the start and had to be repaired under warranty.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Thats probably your biggest issue.

His biggest issue is that he is using the ms8

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by Bicax

What do you mean, and what do you suggest? Do the Y-split mod? (sub + midbass in same channel and split it with a Y cable and use amp crossovers)

By the way, last week I received a reply from the JBL warranty department regarding the fact that the MS8 screen/remote is malfunctioning. They told me that it was working fine when they sent it to me, so it must be an installation issue... and that's it.

I told them that the MS8 was working perfectly fine in what concerns the remote/screen prior to be sent for repair, the installation is exactly the same, and I really don't see how an incorrectly installation could be causing the remote/screen to randomly freeze/restart/malfunction.

No reply from their side. This is the second and last JBL product I'm buying. The other product was a JBL subwoofer amp (GTO 1001EZ) that ALSO came defective right from the start and had to be repaired under warranty.

Get rid of the ms8 and get an Alpine H800. You'll be much happier with it.

[Bicax]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

Get rid of the ms8 and get an Alpine H800. You'll be much happier with it.

The Alpine is too tricky for me as far as I've read. I really don't want to spend hours in the car fine tuning, this last year's experience has really put me off car audio. I want to spend more time on the track instead.

I got the MS8 for two reasons:

- easier/faster than others to autotune (well, obviously not in my case, but that was mainly due to a defective unit)
- maintained the Logic 7

If I get rid of the MS8 I don't think I'll get another DSP. Instead I'll just let the audio store tune the sound as best as they can. So it will be HU -> DA 2 -> amps -> speakers.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by Bicax

The Alpine is too tricky for me as far as I've read. I really don't want to spend hours in the car fine tuning, this last year's experience has really put me off car audio. I want to spend more time on the track instead.

I got the MS8 for two reasons:

- easier/faster than others to autotune (well, obviously not in my case, but that was mainly due to a defective unit)
- maintained the Logic 7

If I get rid of the MS8 I don't think I'll get another DSP. Instead I'll just let the audio store tune the sound as best as they can. So it will be HU -> DA 2 -> amps -> speakers.

The Alpine H800 has autotune like the ms8, and it still allows you to make adjustments afterwards. The H800 is much better than the MS8.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

The Alpine H800 has autotune like the ms8, and it still allows you to make adjustments afterwards. The H800 is much better than the MS8.

I have not used the H800 (have you?) so I cannot say it is better or worse than the MS-8 but from reading online reviews of both units the overall consensus seems to be that the Ms-8 gives the better "out of the box" tune and requires less user fine-tuning after calibration. The H800 therefore seems to be a unit best suited for advanced users (who are really good at tuning) and the MS-8 for average users (who don't know what the hell they're doing). Count me as one of those. I have been in car audio for over 20 years and I still only know the basics of tuning.

I also see a lot of poo-pooing of the MS-8 by those who have tried it and did not have good results. Those people either had defective units, or did not give the processor the conditions it needed to complete the target curve, or they simply did not like the sound of Logic 7. But the majority of those who did get to experience a proper MS-8 tune, know how damn incredible it can sound, and are sticking with the unit until something better comes along.

[Bicax]

What's really upsetting me is the slowness of JBL's after sales service, and the amount of defects I've had with their products. They've sent a defective PCB to replace another defective PCB, and then they sent a third defective PCB to replace the second one. My MS8 still isn't working as it should (although the calibration issues seem to be gone), and they took over 1 month for all of this.

I'm sure I've just been particularly unlucky, but seeing that the same thing happened with the subwoofer amp I own, I don't want to try my lack of luck again.

In what regards the tuning itself, I'm convinced that the MS8 can achieve outstanding results. More importantly, it's the only DSP I would dare trying on my own due to my lack of knowledge.

However, you still do need to invest a certain amount of time - and by that I mean hours and hours and hours of reading and tuning.

I've tried again a few hours of tuning with the LPF trick with the subwoofer on the back seat, and still can't get it right. My midbass is either lacking or too present, the subwoofer doesn't integrate properly with the underseats, and the bass is either boomy or missing.

This weekend I'll go back to trying the Y trick (splitting the midbass/bass signal at the amps).

If anyone has any other ideas, I'll be happy to try them. I'm going to try to make this work before the summer holidays, and if I don't manage I'll have the audio store do everything as I don't want to be doing 12.000km in 2 months without everything sounding perfectly.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I have not used the H800 (have you?) so I cannot say it is better or worse than the MS-8 but from reading online reviews of both units the overall consensus seems to be that the Ms-8 gives the better "out of the box" tune and requires less user fine-tuning after calibration. The H800 therefore seems to be a unit best suited for advanced users (who are really good at tuning) and the MS-8 for average users (who don't know what the hell they're doing). Count me as one of those. I have been in car audio for over 20 years and I still only know the basics of tuning.

I also see a lot of poo-pooing of the MS-8 by those who have tried it and did not have good results. Those people either had defective units, or did not give the processor the conditions it needed to complete the target curve, or they simply did not like the sound of Logic 7. But the majority of those who did get to experience a proper MS-8 tune, know how damn incredible it can sound, and are sticking with the unit until something better comes along.

I've tried the ms8 and did not like it. I've heard the h800 but not in the same car with the same setup so it's not a fair comparison. I believe Technic has tried both of them and could give a fair answer as to which one he thinks is better. The main reason I say it is better is because it is newer technology and doesn't have all the bugs that the ms8 has such as the midbass problems(the reason I got rid of the ms8). It also has 4 volt outputs vs the ms8's 2.8 volt.

[QUiKSR20]

I haven't messed with my MS8 in a long time but still find the sound hit or miss... I am an amateur and with the awesome resources we have here I have got it ironed out but still some songs sound great, Some terrible. I only purchased due to everyone glorifying on these forums. I would love to have an advanced person familiar with MS8s local to NJ go over my config one day. Im sure with the help on these boards you will get it configured pretty damn optimal with help from big dogs.

[Bicax]

Hi guys,

I've tried again to calibrate with the subwoofer in the back seat and the LPF at 200hz on the underseats, and it sounds terrible. I feel that the more I fiddle with it, the worse it gets.

So yesterday I decided to drop the LPF trick, and try the Y splitting kaigoss mod instead. I put my sub back where it belongs, and added 2 Y RCA cables to split the signal coming from the MS8 to the underseats and sub amps. Calibration was done with the sub unplugged.

MS8 settings:

Front 2 way, no sub
Subsonic at 20hz @ 24dB
Front lo/hi xover at 200hz @ 24dB
Center 200hz @ 24dB
Rears 100hz @ 24dB

After calibration, it immediately sounded a LOT better than all my previous hours of efforts.

I didn't have a lot of time to play with things, so I just ended up connecting the sub with the LPF @ ~60-70hz and added the HPF on the underseats @ ~60-70hz. Played a bit with the xovers around those frequencies, and with the gain -> getting the sub to blend in with the underseats manually is a PITA, but at least I got far better results than when letting the MS8 do it on its own. Ended up increasing the gain on the underseats, and setting my subwoofer amp as hi-level and with the gain at around 1/4 or 1/5 (I tried setting it to low-level but even with the gain @ minimum I was getting too much bass and everything sounded boomy).

And now I've finally started to enjoy my music (after one year of trying and miserably failing ).

However, I'm still not 100% happy. I'm going to try lowering the xover on the front hi/lo and center to around 150 instead of 200hz to hear how it sounds, and play around again with the blending in of the underseats/sub. I'll also try lowering my center a bit more (it's currently at -2) since the highs are still killing my ears on some songs.

What really really bothers me is that I can't replicate the feeling I used to get in my X5 where the sound gave me shivers down my spine. I'm not sure if it's due to the car's smaller volume (I do own an E91, though), or simply the Logic 7 sound is not for me. Maybe a mix of both. But I definitely do not feel thrilled to turn the sound on as much as I did back then.

Also, although on certain songs the midbass/bass are excellent, on some they are still lacking, and on others the midbass is too present and the underseat speakers (Jehnert) distort slightly. My former sound system was crystal clear no matter the sound volume level, and midbass/bass were always spot on.

[kaigoss69]

Good, now try to lower the sub amp LPF to about 55 Hz. Make sure the sub polarity is reversed. You may not be able to bring the Jehnerts that low, but running a small gap may actually be beneficial. If you are getting some distortion from the underseats, then you may need to raise the HPF especially if it has a shallow slope like 12 db/oct.

As discussed previously the harshness undoubtedly comes from the center. Lowering the level will certainly help, but you will also lose some focus. Instead you may want to try covering the tweeter with something that will block the high frequencies or even disconnecting it completely. Sounds crazy but worth a shot !