[Gen_E92]

Vorsteiner's CF product seems to be excellent according to alot of people. But I just want to chime in regarding their PUR product. It's their first time making PUR stuff so I guess it can't be perfect. The surface has alot of imperfections, such as pin holes, and some rough and uneven edges. And I wouldn't say fitment is satisfactory either. The OEM M-tech sideskirt is just in another league in terms of quality. So for anyone thinking about the Vorsteiner PUR spoiler, I recommend wait to see if they can improve on their quality

[tokion]

I can guarantee you we can make PUR body kit for all of you; if you give us $100,000 to start the PUR mold fee. (each steel more for the bumper its the size of your car)
We are just only a small company, everything are hands made; nothing is pefect (not like machines). We wish we have the money to make everything out of OEM plastic; but in reality we can't. -- maybe in the future.

You guys keep bitching how's other company made their products and designs. Do you know much time and money we put into this products? I'm sure you don't know that; if you do you won't be bitching. I suggest you to do some more research on the internet "How to make high end body kits" before you post the comments.

I'm BMW owner my self, i have high standard for all of my products. If our company did bad or bring out bad quality products we can also improve our quality; not like other company or people making replicas stuff; DO YOU THINK THAT IS CREATIVE?

If you like your OEM so much, why don't keep your OEM look and drive around town with that. Why you want to wear the same clothing and same shoe like every body else? What make you look different and special others?

If you think or like AC's, Hamann, Reiger, Lumma,etc so much; why don't you buy their stuff? What is the reason? Because they made some ugly products, that's why you don't want to put it onto your car!!!!

They are a good a company maybe in the E46 life cycle. Things has been changed we are now in the future (E90X life cycle). Can you see all their designs is going toward the Japanese LOOK??? BMW is BMW? not JDM styles.

If you are so good, why don't you start a company and make BMW parts for every BMW owners out there?? I would like to see how far can you go.

[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by tokion

I can guarantee you we can make PUR body kit for all of you; if you give us $100,000 to start the PUR mold fee.
We are just only a small company, everything are hands made; nothing is pefect (not like machines). We wish we have the money to make everything out of OEM plastic; but in reality we can't. -- maybe in the future.

You guys keep bitching how's other company made their products and designs. Do you know much time and money we put into this products? I'm sure you don't know that; if you do you won't be bitching. I suggest you to do some more research on the internet "How to make high end body kits" before you post the comments.

I'm BMW owner my self, i have high standard for all of my products. If our company did bad or bring out bad quality products we can also improve our quality; not like other company or people making replicas stuff; DO YOU THINK THAT IS CREATIVE?

If you like OEM so much, why don't keep your OEM look and drive around town with that. Why you want to wear the same clothing and same shoe like every body else? What make you look different than others?

If you think or like AC's, Hamann, Reiger, Lumma,etc so much; why don't you buy their stuff? What is the reason? Because they made some ugly products, that's why you don't want to put it onto your car!!!!

They are a good a company maybe in the E46 life cycle. Things has been changed we are now in the future (E90X life cycle). Can you see all their designs is going toward the Japanese LOOK??? BMW is BMW? not JDM styles.

If you are so good, why don't you start a company and make BMW parts for every BMW owners out there?? I would like to see how far can you go.

I understand you put a lot of hard work in your business but that kind of response isn't professional at all. Someone asked for opinions, people gave theirs, it's a public forum.

[!Xoible]

1.
2. if you put a lot of effort, money, investment, time, etc. into a product that doesnt come out perfect then all that investment is wasted by YOU, not by your customers who do not like certain things about your product.

Demand is what decides your sales, not the fact that you spent time/effort.

im not saying ur product is bad, i dont even know what it is, but i just saw the argument that you put in there.

[tokion]

Originally Posted by mantis

1.
2. if you put a lot of effort, money, investment, time, etc. into a product that doesnt come out perfect then all that investment is wasted by YOU, not by your customers who do not like certain things about your product.

Demand is what decides your sales, not the fact that you spent time/effort.

im not saying ur product is bad, i dont even know what it is, but i just saw the argument that you put in there.

Yes, you are right.
You have to see it to believe it; but for some people here, thinks all fiber glass products is bad.

Fiber glass came in many level of quality. ie: Level1, Level2, Level3 etc.
most Japanese body kits use L1.

If you don't like Fiber Glass, then don't. you still have an optional to get the CF version.

[OC Guy]

Originally Posted by tokion

Yes, you are right.
You have to see it to believe it; but for some people here, thinks all fiber glass products is bad.

Fiber glass came in many level of quality. ie: Level1, Level2, Level3 etc.
most japanese car use L1.

IMO, fiberglass front lips/front bumpers/etc. on lowered cars on public streets is very risky. To each his/her own though. The fitment can be good or bad whether PUR/Fiberglass/or CF.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by tokion

I can guarantee you we can make PUR body kit for all of you; if you give us $100,000 to start the PUR mold fee. (each steel more for the bumper its the size of your car)
We are just only a small company, everything are hands made; nothing is pefect (not like machines). We wish we have the money to make everything out of OEM plastic; but in reality we can't. -- maybe in the future.

You guys keep bitching how's other company made their products and designs. Do you know much time and money we put into this products? I'm sure you don't know that; if you do you won't be bitching. I suggest you to do some more research on the internet "How to make high end body kits" before you post the comments.

I'm BMW owner my self, i have high standard for all of my products. If our company did bad or bring out bad quality products we can also improve our quality; not like other company or people making replicas stuff; DO YOU THINK THAT IS CREATIVE?

If you like OEM so much, why don't keep your OEM look and drive around town with that. Why you want to wear the same clothing and same shoe like every body else? What make you look different than others?

If you think or like AC's, Hamann, Reiger, Lumma,etc so much; why don't you buy their stuff? What is the reason? Because they made some ugly products, that's why you don't want to put it onto your car!!!!

They are a good a company maybe in the E46 life cycle. Things has been changed we are now in the future (E90X life cycle). Can you see all their designs is going toward the Japanese LOOK??? BMW is BMW? not JDM styles.

If you are so good, why don't you start a company and make BMW parts for every BMW owners out there?? I would like to see how far can you go.

First of all, stay professional, your not just another forum member, your a sponsor and a vendor.

Second, all your doing is replicating the M5 bumper, the M6 side skirts, and the E90 M tech rear. Your just making them fit the E92, thats all. So no, your not doing anything creative.

Third, being different has alot more too it then just that. I will stick to OEM body kits and I'd rather look like a few more of the same people then to look like one car that turned out poor.

Forth, I doesnt matter how much time and money someone puts into something, if they fail to create the best product, then they fail. Period. The founders of myspace, youtube, ebay, and amazon just merely used a simple web address and a great idea and are now on top of the world. That goes to show that time and money dont always matter, its whatever you have to do to make the best product that matters, be it spending time, money, or whatever else it takes.

Fifth, though in MY opinion ACS, Hamann, and Lumma make visually un apealing products, that doesnt change the fact that they make quality fitting and quality products. I wouldnt say Rieger is considered a top quality company my friend. Now Brabus, Lorinser, Novitec, Wald, Mansory, ACS, and Hamann on the other hand, are extremely good, if not near OEM.

And finally, I dont need to or want to start a BMW body kit company and it doesnt matter weather or not I could succeed. What does matter is that we as consumers need to hold very strict and high standards for the products that companies make, and that goes for EVERYTHING in life, not just body kits

[tokion]

Originally Posted by OC 335i

IMO, fiberglass front lips/front bumpers/etc. on lowered cars on public streets is very risky. To each his/her own though. The fitment can be good or bad whether PUR/Fiberglass/or CF.

So,you think OEM won't have this effect if you lower your car?

It happen to one of my buddy, he got an OEM aero lip and lower his car. And now his OEM lip its at the recycle bin.

[uhaulball]

i dont want to come across as vulgar or rude, but i dont want to come off as not being offended more, so i will just say this...

you can complain about aftermarket kits being cheap, yes there are a ton of crap out there, but the OP is asking about the e92kit. The ones who are complaining about aftermarket pieces have absolutely no experience with the ACTUAL e92kits offered by tokion. I have seen first hand the quality of these pieces. you cant just say fiberglass is bad, or aftermarket is bad. everything.... OEM or Aftermarket, is made by 3rd party manufacturers. I've picked up a group buy shipment of the e90 kit by tokion and i have 1st hand experience. the quality is already very top notch, it cant even be mentioned in the same sentence as the other very poorly made kits ive seen 1st hand in aftermarket body shops on civics and integras. Dont just generalize about aftermarket and OEM. there are so many degrees of quality in aftermarket offerings, the quality of the e92kits are grade A. if you dont like the DESIGN aspect, whatever, but dont just ignorantly make comments of its quality. thats just wrong. and to that, i must end with, shut up.

[Neema]

^^ Sure, and i dont doubt that. However, I've sat and watched Long Tran installing these tokion kits with issues, and even in this thread alone people have mentioned fitment issues. Im just using tokion as an example of the aftermarket since this thread is about them, though the same applies to any after market company

[Neema]

Originally Posted by tokion

So,you think OEM won't have this effect if you lower your car?

It happen to one of my buddy, he got an OEM aero lip and lower his car. And now his OEM lip its at the recycle bin.

of course it can happen to any product, he's just saying that MAYBE an OEM piece or higher quality material could withstand road abuse a little better. Otherwise, sure any lip from any maker can be destroyed. You'd have to compare two products against eachother with the same subjective tests to determine which is more durable or whatever else it is that your trying to prove

[Neema]

Listen man, no one is trying to bash your product.

HOWEVER you are proving to us that you feel like your product is complete, perfect, and great.

That is a BAD way to feel about your product. You have to always want to try and improve, HOWEVER, atleast currently be up to standards. You even said so yourself that your always trying to improve. So why dont admit that there are some improvements that need to be made, because there are, and just take it from there. You might lose a few sales, but thats better then getting a bad reputation for being a poor body kit company. I'd rather spend as long as it takes to make a perfect product and then release it so that I'd get great reviews and a great reputation, then to release less then perfect stuff and be known as a poor company. That hurts you down the road, reputations are harder to rebuild then you think. Its better to just start great and work up from there, then to start low and have a bad rep and try and work your way up. You guys are not that bad at all (i even considered your side skirts for a while), but just need some improvement, most body kit companies do.

[tokion]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

of course it can happen to any product, he's just saying that MAYBE an OEM piece or higher quality material could withstand road abuse a little better. Otherwise, sure any lip from any maker can be destroyed. You'd have to compare two products against eachother with the same subjective tests to determine which is more durable or whatever else it is that your trying to prove

I agree with you on that; but everything will breaks if you hit the cars at 30 mph. No matter good how's good the product is.

One things I noticed; not everyone are brave enough to test or try out new after market products.

You know, it doesn't hurt to try or feel it. If you like what you see you can make it work.

[Minipuck V 2.0]

Originally Posted by tokion

So,you think OEM won't have this effect if you lower your car?

It happen to one of my buddy, he got an OEM aero lip and lower his car. And now his OEM lip its at the recycle bin.

out of curiousity ... i was linked to this thread, but what happened to the OEM lip that made it trash? i mean ... i am trying to understand what happened that would damage the lip to the point where it was no longer usable? was it the driver got into an accident or just normal driving condition?

[uhaulball]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

^^ Sure, and i dont doubt that. However, I've sat and watched Long Tran installing these tokion kits with issues, and even in this thread alone people have mentioned fitment issues. Im just using tokion as an example of the aftermarket since this thread is about them, though the same applies to any after market company

that is true too. with every aftermarket product, there is usually some adjustment needed. unlike the 3rd party manufacturers that make hundreds of thousands of the same OEM parts, just by the disadvantage of the sheer quantities made, the aftermarket company manufacturers only make a fraction of that and have less opportunity to make adjustments. you have to then make these adjustments by hand when installing. i think the e92kits already have very good fit relative to the number of kits produced, but yes they may require some adjustment here and there. in that aspect, OEM is "better" with getting the fitment right on the first shot, but in regards to durability and aesthetics and finish, the e92kits and e90kits are equal to oem in my opinion. I think one would expect to have to make adjustments to any aftermarket product, wheels, suspension, exhaust, emblem, spoilers, lighting; if you think about it really, tokion did a superb job.

e92kit

if you notice, everyone that has the kit so far is positive and satisfied, myself included.

[tokion]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

Listen man, no one is trying to bash your product.

HOWEVER you are proving to us that you feel like your product is complete, perfect, and great.

That is a BAD way to feel about your product. You have to always want to try and improve, HOWEVER, atleast currently be up to standards. You even said so yourself that your always trying to improve. So why dont admit that there are some improvements that need to be made, because there are, and just take it from there. You might lose a few sales, but thats better then getting a bad reputation for being a poor body kit company. I'd rather spend as long as it takes to make a perfect product and then release it so that I'd get great reviews and a great reputation, then to release less then perfect stuff and be known as a poor company. That hurts you down the road, reputations are harder to rebuild then you think. Its better to just start great and work up from there, then to start low and have a bad rep and try and work your way up. You guys are not that bad at, but just need some improvement, most body kit companies do.

Yes, you are right.
When I said, "we also improve our products" this is what i had been doing for the last 3 months. The E92 M-kit is our first run, what else can you expect?
I can guarantee you; there won't be any problems with our 2008 Products~

[tokion]

Originally Posted by Minipuck V 2.0

out of curiousity ... i was linked to this thread, but what happened to the OEM lip that made it trash? i mean ... i am trying to understand what happened that would damage the lip to the point where it was no longer usable? was it the driver got into an accident or just normal driving condition?

Normal driving.
The car was too low and trying drive over the speed bump.

[Minipuck V 2.0]

Originally Posted by tokion

Normal driving.
The car was too low and trying drive over the speed bump.

wow ... thanks for sharing ... wish i saw pics of what happened ... but i feel like thats not the fault of the lip, but simply the driver made a choice and his car was too low ...

[!Xoible]

this thread's gone out of control

SHOWTIME

[uhaulball]

Originally Posted by mantis

this thread's gone out of control

SHOWTIME

it did, i agree!

i think only actual customers with the product on their cars can provide an unbiased and accurate review.

[tokion]

Originally Posted by Minipuck V 2.0

wow ... thanks for sharing ... wish i saw pics of what happened ... but i feel like thats not the fault of the lip, but simply the driver made a choice and his car was too low ...

hahaha~ not just only his car.
Just wait and see....sooner or later people with OEM aero lip will post the comments.

[Minipuck V 2.0]

Originally Posted by uhaulball

it did, i agree!

i think only actual customers with the product on their cars can provide an unbiased and accurate review.

what about peope who have seen the product on a car?