[O-cha]

I believe the thread was made as a "boost pressure is not all you need to consider" not a "engine load is all you should consider"

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by KenB

Given the recent events around here I could see that.

Thats the problem/benefit with forums, all posts are up to interpretation.

Personally I thought "There has been a lot of talk on what is the maximum safe boost pressure that one can run on the N54 motor. Sounds like a simple question until we look at the reality of the situation. And that is what this post is going to attempt to reveal." sort of closed it to interpretation, but hey.

As most people know by now I am no "fanboy" but it's clear you either misunderstood, or chose to ignore/change the point.

[stillclaimndp]

Originally Posted by KenB

IMO, Shivs post raises more questions than it answers. I realize that the fanboiz on this site will just dismiss this post and that is fine.

Let me start by saying that I definitely have respect for Shiv, he has managed to take full advantage of the free market system, and create loyalty that I can not believe. Vishnu buyers are the most faithful people since the religious whack jobs that drank the kool aid so they could ride the comet!!! Defending a product that has had little testing, probing the limits of their own cars and dealing with frequent CEL and limp modes.

Anyway, Shiv is assuming that it is ultimate boost that will be the demise of the car, we have no proof to support that line of reasoning.

If we are to assume that boost will kill the engine then it will be main bearing failure (excessive load, as suggested), connecting rod failure, or head gasket failure.

The assumption that combustion pressure is the only variable to be concerned with is wrong. Excessive heat is going to be a big problem, most Procede buyers are not upgrading their intercoolers or exhaust. The engine is working hard to push out hot exhaust past the two turbos, four cats, and through the exhaust system.

Fuel delivery is another variable that we don't have much data on as we reach the limit.

Even if we assume that engine load is the only factor, breaking the engine and breaking the car a two very different things. What I mean is, even if the engine/fuel delivery system/turbos etc. is good for 500hp and 500ft/lbs (I am sure its not) that doesn't mean that the clutch or AT or drive shafts etc are up to the challenge.

These cars are well engineered, they are designed with a degree of safety built in. The weak link will be revealed soon, and for some it will be costly.

Did you read the post or just the responses? Shiv specifically posts that boost levels are not the only thing people need to be concerned about, your response interprets this completely backwards. I think you drank some of that Kool-Aid

[Jonmartin]

Thanks for the info Shiv. Ken go drive your Porsche or something get off the computer.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Shiv, I think what is important are things like:

1. When will we hit 90% or greater duty cycle on the injectors.
2. What power do you think the fuel pump will max out on.
3. What type of IATs are you seeing on your v2 setup?
4. Have you seen anything on the short block fail yet at your power levels?

[e.n335]

While appreciating the posting of Shiv, we should consider postings like Orb's or Ken's as well.

We all could benefit being a bit more open-minded.

- Eugen

[WilyB]

Originally Posted by KenB

...a product that has had little testing, probing the limits of their own cars and dealing with frequent CEL and limp modes.

Ken,

In nine months, including a run at the drag strip, I've yet to experience a CEL and/or a limp mode.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by WilyB

Ken,

In nine months, including a run at the drag strip, I've yet to experience a CEL and/or a limp mode.

That's great, really. You are not the only one who made this experience, a lot of people don't have any limp modes with the PROcede.

[stefano7171]

Originally Posted by e.n335

That's great, really. You are not the only one who made this experience, a lot of people don't have any limp modes with the PROcede.

Where are those who write posts saying Eugen has become an hater of the Procede now?

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by stefano7171

Where are those who write posts saying Eugen has become an hater of the Procede now?

How is that relevant and who said Eugen hates the PROcede?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by stefano7171

Where are those who write posts saying Eugen has become an hater of the Procede now?

lol. Yeah, where are these people now, HUH??!

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by stefano7171

Where are those who write posts saying Eugen has become an hater of the Procede now?

As you know me personally, I am neither a fanboy(i) ? nor a hater. I am just looking for my subjective best tuning for my car. I am looking for around 340-350whp at 350 lbft max. This has mostly to do with my steptronic tranny but also with my daily driving expectations.

Personally I think I am on a good way. I had the PROcede, a good product. IMO the philosophy of this tune is more for spiritited driving most of the time. I am now looking at two more products, hoping I will get what I am looking for. In any case, the performance tuning will be supported by hardware like DP's, upgraded FMIC and maybe a full exhaust back from the DP's.

Stefano, I think you are one of the users having no problems at all with the PROcede ( except one limp-mode during ECU adaption after the PROcede install ).

However, I learned a lot from Shiv and my own PROcede experience. I continue learning.

Ciao,
Eugen

[Driver72]

Thanks Shiv, always good to learn some new stuff.
There will always be critics no matter what. Keep up the good work and information.

[stefano7171]

Originally Posted by e.n335

As you know me personally, I am neither a fanboy(i) ? nor a hater. I am just looking for my subjective best tuning for my car. I am looking for around 340-350whp at 350 lbft max. This has mostly to do with my steptronic tranny but also with my daily driving expectations.

Personally I think I am on a good way. I had the PROcede, a good product. IMO the philosophy of this tune is more for spiritited driving most of the time. I am now looking at two more products, hoping I will get what I am looking for. In any case, the performance tuning will be supported by hardware like DP's, upgraded FMIC and maybe a full exhaust back from the DP's.

Stefano, I think you are one of the users having no problems at all with the PROcede ( except one limp-mode during ECU adaption after the PROcede install ).

However, I learned a lot from Shiv and my own PROcede experience. I continue learning.

Ciao,
Eugen

All you say is correct, my friend.
Probably due to my limited problems (one limp in six months) and great performance achievement with the Procede, I remain a great Vishnu workshipper, at the same time I appreciate your reviews of other products, as everyone should do, because I know that you are not supporting one or the other manufacturer, but just post your own findings, that could be right or wrong, more or less scientifically based/proven, but are always sincere.


PS: thanks Shiv for the useful information.

[turbotko]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

Awesome info.

Shiv, is the use of T-MAP vs. MAF the reason that my Eclipse would boost higher on cold nights whereas according to this explanation you are indicating the 335i will boost lower on cold nights as it requires less boost to make the same power (assuming stock application) and the T-MAP is better at making consistent power? Or is that more to do with the temperature of the turbo/engine than the monitoring system and ECU?

I don't think your eclipse electronically controls boost, if it does it only does so by way of a solenoid valve that is either open or closed. With this setup, the ECU can only run "high" boost or "low" boost and mainly only uses the low boost setting to save the engine.

The N54's DME controls boost directly and in a variable way so that it can control exactly how much boost it wants to run.

Very good read BTW shiv. Air density is really all that matters when it comes to making power.........not boost. Boost is just an easy way to increase the air density, but get a turbo too far out of it's efficiency range and the increase in air temp will overcome the increase in boost in relation to air density.

My last turbo car I started at 15 psi. I started increasing boost to 24 psi in increments. I gained 85 rwhp just by upping the boost from 15 to 24 psi with no other changes. From 24 psi to 28 psi I gained 5 ft/lbs down low in the power band but lost 15 horsepower up top. The turbo was out of it's efficiency range and was hurting air density more than it was helping it due to the outrageous heat it was making ( 385 degrees F coming out of the compressor)

[2007_E93]

Originally Posted by KenB

Some of you ass kissers make me sick

Did you even read this? He is NOT saying boost is everything. And, I'm NOT a fanboy by any means, although I do think Shiv offers a good product and reasoning as to why he chooses to tune the way he does and makes it public information on top of that. Do AA/Xede people post educational info like this,...not often. Just found it valuable for me as a newbie to tuning.

Besides, how does appreciating good info make someone an ass kisser? If it was misinformation and we knew it and still praised it,... then thats ass kissing.

[Blk07335i]

Originally Posted by KenB

IMO, Shivs post raises more questions than it answers. I realize that the fanboiz on this site will just dismiss this post and that is fine.

Let me start by saying that I definitely have respect for Shiv, he has managed to take full advantage of the free market system, and create loyalty that I can not believe. Vishnu buyers are the most faithful people since the religious whack jobs that drank the kool aid so they could ride the comet!!! Defending a product that has had little testing, probing the limits of their own cars and dealing with frequent CEL and limp modes.

Anyway, Shiv is assuming that it is ultimate boost that will be the demise of the car, we have no proof to support that line of reasoning.

If we are to assume that boost will kill the engine then it will be main bearing failure (excessive load, as suggested), connecting rod failure, or head gasket failure.

The assumption that combustion pressure is the only variable to be concerned with is wrong. Excessive heat is going to be a big problem, most Procede buyers are not upgrading their intercoolers or exhaust. The engine is working hard to push out hot exhaust past the two turbos, four cats, and through the exhaust system.

Fuel delivery is another variable that we don't have much data on as we reach the limit.

Even if we assume that engine load is the only factor, breaking the engine and breaking the car a two very different things. What I mean is, even if the engine/fuel delivery system/turbos etc. is good for 500hp and 500ft/lbs (I am sure its not) that doesn't mean that the clutch or AT or drive shafts etc are up to the challenge.

These cars are well engineered, they are designed with a degree of safety built in. The weak link will be revealed soon, and for some it will be costly.

A product that has had little testing? Are you kidding me? Shiv has been testing this along with I guess approx 500 end users for at least 10 months. Yes there has been some issues with CELS and limp modes but most of the users, myself included, have never had any problems. Nothing but clean awesome power.

[turbotko]

Why can't it just stay as a technical discussion about boosted N54's making power?

No, every freakin thread somebody makes has to turn into a Shiv said this and Terry said that and your a fanboy and I hate vishnu and procede sucks.........I could go on forever.

Bottom line.........Who gives a fuck??? I just wanna go fast.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by turbotko

No, every freakin thread somebody makes has to turn into a Shiv said this and Terry said that and your a fanboy and I hate vishnu and procede sucks.........I could go on forever.

Hey there, Welcome to E90post.com...

[Beer Goggles]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

Awesome info.

Shiv, is the use of T-MAP vs. MAF the reason that my Eclipse would boost higher on cold nights whereas according to this explanation you are indicating the 335i will boost lower on cold nights as it requires less boost to make the same power (assuming stock application) and the T-MAP is better at making consistent power? Or is that more to do with the temperature of the turbo/engine than the monitoring system and ECU?

Your eclipse makes more boost in the cold because cold air makes more power, and more pressure at combustion. We had a huge debate on this on the 350Z forums when people saw huge boost spikes in the cold.

[boosted305]

where's shiv?

...there's a lot of questions here...

from what I've seen he's pretty good about answering questions....

[e90AW335i]

Mods can you make this a sticky.....