[mathematics]

Originally Posted by Wongway

Well, I mean, in the more traditional sense, if my DSP went bad, things might sound horrible, but playable, just get another DSP with minimal wiring changes (probably). If my amp went bad, well, I could just simply drop another amp in pretty readily.

I would imagine a device like this isn't exactly commonly stocked. So if this went bad, I'm basically out two devices at once. Not easily fixed in the short term. Probably less easily diagnosed too. So I'm guessing it's the only negative I could think of with this.

Either way, the Helix DSP should probably be quality (if the reputation of their past products is any indication) and having the amp all built in with only an 8"x8" footprint sounds awfully tempting to try for an easily hidden install...

You will not be disappointed

[Wongway]

I've got two more questions then...

1) Did you guys use the following?
Stardard Stereo System H86112 PP-AC 13a BMW from 2001 (40 pin)
I just pulled that from their site. It looks like basically a factory stereo harness kit to go direct into the DSP?

2) Not that I'm necessarily concerned with waking the neighbors, but I'm assuming this is pretty loud as it stands? Significantly louder/clearer/cleaner?
It doesn't seem like a terrible drop in power compared to the ARC KS125.4 I was originally looking to install, but according to ARC's numbers, I'd have been feeding 250 watts per side split across the each doorboard.

It seems like I might be dropping the power to the tweeters and 4" midranges by a large amount if I go this route?

[mathematics]

Sure, if you trust the specs Arc is telling you. All I can say is this gets very loud and sounds very good doing it.

[mathematics]

Also, we used only the harness that comes in the box and spliced into the factory wiring instead of using the harness because it's a tight fit behind the radio with a technic harness, so we assumed equally annoying with the helix harness.

[Wongway]

...you're tempting me an awful lot at the moment -.-

Outside of the area under the trunk, any other places inside the cabin you could think of this could be installed? I'm trying to keep in mind places that it might fit and not worry about potential water leakage.

In my E83 X3, I lost my factory bluetooth capability because the stupid sunroof drains got clogged late in its life and flooded that corner compartment where the E90's factory amp goes. So in thinking long term, I'm trying to avoid places where water might potentially drain into...

[mathematics]

Not really. I mean, the spot under the trunk floor should never see water unless you leave your trunk open in the rain.

[mightycrown]

Originally Posted by mathematics

8x 55 watts RMS and built in 56 bit DSP...what's not to love?

Hi I am thinking to install this device as well, however I am wondering what kinda of harness and wiring I will need? Is it this one to run from i drive to the device(in the trunk)
and this harness from Idrive to the connectors as the wires above?

[Wongway]

I don't know if there's an elegant way to do this. So here's my experience, and maybe the installers will have better advice than what I'm about to say...

In my case, I used this amp to install my Jehnert Door Boards.
To start with, I have the BMW Base Audio system with No Amp, No Tweeters.
I ordered Technic's 2/4 amp harness that taps into the speaker wires under the seats to get the full signal of the front channels. (Was told that it's a tight fit behind the head unit with a regular harness, and figured, like mathematics told me, it would be easier to just tap the signal under the front seats.

At this point, I basically had to cut up the entire harness and use the signal wires from the seats and splice them into the harness in the current pins for the inputs, as well as splice the output signal on Technic's harness cable to the correct output wires on the amp harness.
(Technic's 2/4 harness has both input and output signal wires together, since the underseat connection has both input and output wires together as well)

In my case, it definitely was not a "plug and play".


I do know that Helix sells a connector on their website that supposedly matches the BMW head unit's connection. I am pretty sure 6spdcoupe and mathematics can order that for you if you so choose. You definitely need to give them a call though so you know for sure what system you're working with to start.

Edit:
Oh yeah, I quoted the part #/description a few posts above...
Stardard Stereo System H86112 PP-AC 13a BMW from 2001 (40 pin)
...for the harness if you so chose.

[zhp43867]

Originally Posted by mathematics

I don't use or like JL,so I can't compare.

Originally Posted by mathematics

Sure, if you trust the specs Arc is telling you. All I can say is this gets very loud and sounds very good doing it.

Bashing Arc and JL in one fell swoop, huh? Who broke your heart?

Originally Posted by Wongway

...

At this point, I basically had to cut up the entire harness and use the signal wires from the seats and splice them into the harness in the current pins for the inputs, as well as splice the output signal on Technic's harness cable to the correct output wires on the amp harness.
(Technic's 2/4 harness has both input and output signal wires together, since the underseat connection has both input and output wires together as well)

In my case, it definitely was not a "plug and play".


I do know that Helix sells a connector on their website that supposedly matches the BMW head unit's connection. I am pretty sure 6spdcoupe and mathematics can order that for you if you so choose. You definitely need to give them a call though so you know for sure what system you're working with to start.

How does it sound?

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by zhp43867

How does it sound?

Personally? Loving it, and kind of afraid of it, heh.

Door Boards + Match 82DSP is a convenient combo. Full control of tweeters, mids, and 4 pairs of 6.5 woofers...

PLENTY of sound, very full.

The hard part is this noob trying to dial in EQ/DSP settings for it all...

I don't believe I've cranked it to full volume yet. Mostly because at a certain point (guessing 80%? 90%?) I'm personally pretty overwhelmed with sound.

[mightycrown]

Originally Posted by Wongway

I don't know if there's an elegant way to do this. So here's my experience, and maybe the installers will have better advice than what I'm about to say...

In my case, I used this amp to install my Jehnert Door Boards.
To start with, I have the BMW Base Audio system with No Amp, No Tweeters.
I ordered Technic's 2/4 amp harness that taps into the speaker wires under the seats to get the full signal of the front channels. (Was told that it's a tight fit behind the head unit with a regular harness, and figured, like mathematics told me, it would be easier to just tap the signal under the front seats.

At this point, I basically had to cut up the entire harness and use the signal wires from the seats and splice them into the harness in the current pins for the inputs, as well as splice the output signal on Technic's harness cable to the correct output wires on the amp harness.
(Technic's 2/4 harness has both input and output signal wires together, since the underseat connection has both input and output wires together as well)

In my case, it definitely was not a "plug and play".


I do know that Helix sells a connector on their website that supposedly matches the BMW head unit's connection. I am pretty sure 6spdcoupe and mathematics can order that for you if you so choose. You definitely need to give them a call though so you know for sure what system you're working with to start.

Edit:
Oh yeah, I quoted the part #/description a few posts above...
Stardard Stereo System H86112 PP-AC 13a BMW from 2001 (40 pin)
...for the harness if you so chose.

Thanks wrongway for firming the harness and write up of your experience. My approach will be a bit different. I m gonna try the harness and fit it behind of the head unit. hopefully I can stuff them all up in there

I will leave the OEM underseat speaker for now. In the future I'd change them and wiring it straight to PP82DSP. However the front mid range requires to be rerouted by a jumper cable. Hopefully I can keep this as much pnp as possible.
This will be my first setup. Lets seee, hope I wont F it up bad!

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by mightycrown

Thanks wrongway for firming the harness and write up of your experience. My approach will be a bit different. I m gonna try the harness and fit it behind of the head unit. hopefully I can stuff them all up in there

I will leave the OEM underseat speaker for now. In the future I'd change them and wiring it straight to PP82DSP. However the front mid range requires to be rerouted by a jumper cable. Hopefully I can keep this as much pnp as possible.
This will be my first setup. Lets seee, hope I wont F it up bad!

Honestly, it might be easier on you to get one of those kits, like this...
Jehnert Flatline Kit
Don (6spdcoupe) can get you those as well.

That way, you get it all taken care of in one shot.

I'm not sure if you understand correctly the wiring. I never had to use a jumper cable. In my case, the harness that plugs in under the seat takes the input from the headunit, and also has the output for the midrange built in. No jumper cable for me.

edit:
In my case, I still used the stock wiring for the midranges. My harness took full range signal from underseat. Runs back to amplifier/DSP. Then new outputs to Tweeter, Underseats. Instead of a jumper, I used that original stock wire for the signal to midranges.

[Smokey99]

Originally Posted by mathematics

Also, we used only the harness that comes in the box and spliced into the factory wiring instead of using the harness because it's a tight fit behind the radio with a technic harness, so we assumed equally annoying with the helix harness.

Nice job and a really cool unit. This is basically an all in one upgrade solution that can take a stock system to the next level.


I was looking at the Audiotec Fischer website and downloaded the "manual". I see on the front panel where they have the E/F/G/H outputs labeled which uses a second connector. Looks like the high level inputs and the ABCD outputs are all located then on the main "system connector", but I see no indication or label of which ones go where on that system connector. It looks like the pair of connections on the far right (yellow and black) are for power input (but not used on the PP 82DSP model, only on the lower models which dont have the dedicated power input terminals.
Then, there are 4 connections (white/grey/purple/green) in the middle and then 4 more connections (same colors) on the left end of that system connector. Which 4 are the high level inputs and which are the outputs?

Are the ones boxed in yellow the outputs or the inputs? (From my photo below) And how are they arranged? For example:

On system connector from left to right:

Input 4
Input 3
Input 2
Input 1
Output D
Output C
Output B
Output A
Unused Power input
Unused Ground input

? Manual doesnt state any of that.


Also- How does the unit receive turn on signal? Is it simply signal sensing on the high level inputs?


Really cool looking product!

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by Smokey99

Nice job and a really cool unit. This is basically an all in one upgrade solution that can take a stock system to the next level.


I was looking at the Audiotec Fischer website and downloaded the "manual". I see on the front panel where they have the E/F/G/H outputs labeled which uses a second connector. Looks like the high level inputs and the ABCD outputs are all located then on the main "system connector", but I see no indication or label of which ones go where on that system connector. It looks like the pair of connections on the far right (yellow and black) are for power input (but not used on the PP 82DSP model, only on the lower models which dont have the dedicated power input terminals.
Then, there are 4 connections (white/grey/purple/green) in the middle and then 4 more connections (same colors) on the left end of that system connector. Which 4 are the high level inputs and which are the outputs?

Are the ones boxed in yellow the outputs or the inputs? (From my photo below) And how are they arranged? For example:

On system connector from left to right:

Input 4
Input 3
Input 2
Input 1
Output D
Output C
Output B
Output A
Unused Power input
Unused Ground input

? Manual doesnt state any of that.


Also- How does the unit receive turn on signal? Is it simply signal sensing on the high level inputs?


Really cool looking product!

Yellow box is outputs. Power and Ground Are used on this unit as well.

[Smokey99]

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

Yellow box is outputs. Power and Ground Are used on this unit as well.

Thanks!

Do the outputs go DCBA from left to right on that connector?


After re-reading that section of the manual (regarding power), I see what you mean. When they stated:

"3. In case of the PP 82DSP the included MATCH cable harness cannot and must not be used for the power supply. Always directly connect the massive screw terminals of this amplifier to your car’s battery using appropriate wires (AWG 8 / 10 mm² or better)."

I read that as don't apply power to those leads of the harness, when what the actually meant was don't use those leads to connect to the large separate power terminals on the other side. Thanks for the clarification.

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by Smokey99

Thanks!

Do the outputs go DCBA from left to right on that connector?


After re-reading that section of the manual (regarding power), I see what you mean. When they stated:

"3. In case of the PP 82DSP the included MATCH cable harness cannot and must not be used for the power supply. Always directly connect the massive screw terminals of this amplifier to your car’s battery using appropriate wires (AWG 8 / 10 mm² or better)."

I read that as don't apply power to those leads of the harness, when what the actually meant was don't use those leads to connect to the large separate power terminals on the other side. Thanks for the clarification.

Left to Right or Right to Left doesn't matter, they are all in EIA coloring.

No worries, it happens !

[DrRobert]

I'm considering this amp too, but want to connect a second amp to its RCA line outputs to run the underseat subs. I'm confused about something it says on page 15 of the manual in the section on line outputs:

"Important: The outputs G and H deliver the same audio signal as the speaker outputs G and H. Any changes in the setup via the PC-Tool software will always have the same effect on the speaker outputs and line outputs of the channels G and H!"

Does that mean that if I use the RCA outs for a second amp then I can't connect speakers to output channels G+H (i.e. I can then only use 6 channels of the PP82DSP?

Thanks!

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

...
"Important: The outputs G and H deliver the same audio signal as the speaker outputs G and H. Any changes in the setup via the PC-Tool software will always have the same effect on the speaker outputs and line outputs of the channels G and H!"

Does that mean that if I use the RCA outs for a second amp then I can't connect speakers to output channels G+H (i.e. I can then only use 6 channels of the PP82DSP?

Thanks!

I haven't thought to use this with an another amp like you're considering, but my reading of it would be that you can use those channels.
Just any changes you make in the DSP regarding channels G+H will be reflected in the second amp you have hooked up because they are getting the exact same feed.

[DrRobert]

Yes, that's how I read it too. So technically I could connect spekers to G+H, but in practical terms I'm not sure it would work as I would likely have midrange or tweeters hooked to those channels, and I would not want the same DSP settings for them as the subs, right?

[Wongway]

Well, now you've got me curious...

With mine, I have channels A&B as my tweeters, C&D as my mids.
E&F and G&H are my "subs" so to speak...

So, if you wanted to hook up G+H as midrange or tweeters, what are you doing with channels A-F?


Edit:
OH! I see, I forgot you're upgrading the Harmon Kardon system.

That changes a lot of things.
I wonder if you're open to (if your installer has recommended this?) deleting your center channel speaker?

Because if your installer is doing the tuning, I would imagine they should be able to easily enable a "center" channel by correctly time aligning the various speakers around you. I'm a rank novice with this, but I've already managed to get a very solid sounding "center" with voices coming through solidly as if they were in the windshield without the use of a center channel speaker.

[DrRobert]

Yep, HK system w/ 9 channels. Was thinking I could keep all 9 by getting this 8 channel amp and adding a second amp for the underseat "subs", til I ran across that phrase in the instruction book.

Would be willing to consider giving up the center channel if there are no other good options, especially if it can be tuned so that it feels like voices are coming from the center as you said. I know a lot of you folks prefer it without a center channel but I kind of like mine. Especially when I'm listening to the ball game on the radio, I like having the announcer's voice coming from the front. Rest of the time I'm listening to music.

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

... Especially when I'm listening to the ball game on the radio, I like having the announcer's voice coming from the front. Rest of the time I'm listening to music.

Not about preference. It's reality. Properly tuned, (I'm guessing your installer is a good audio tuner?) I know firsthand that a center channel isn't needed.

In the HK system, (or any factory system for that matter that I've ever come across, be it BMW, Infiniti, Ford, or whatnot), the center channel is crap. It's a cheat because 99.9% of all the music you listen to is recorded in stereo. Two speakers. So properly spaced (time aligned), you will get the illusion of a phantom center speaker in the middle of your dash, just out past the window, as if it's sitting on your hood. The center channel in all the factory OEM systems I've come across (so far) are simply a summation of the left and right channels in the middle.

To top it off, a true center channel is really only used if you get something recorded in Dolby Pro Logic II or better. Thing of it is, almost none of the music you get is recorded in that manner. Still stereo, even today. So about the only real use out of a center channel speaker, is if you were watching DVDs or Blu-rays in your car.

Long story short, properly tuned and time aligned, you will always get the sensation of the voice coming from the front. No center channel needed.

I would have a good conversation with your installer about this, and seriously consider deleting the center channel. I'd also consider deleting a set of your rears, but I can understand the desire to keep those. (However, do keep in mind, in following with the same theory behind how music is recorded, the rear speakers actually hinder a proper tuning, as your tuner now has to fight the focus from going back behind you.)

This might open the door to a huge amount of possibilities in amp configuration depending on how much power you want to send to your subs. (I forget, were you getting the Focals for the under seats? or were you open to a sub in the trunk?)