[Manboy]

So the famous N54 lag is back??

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by fxc335

I had an engine malfunction light and took to the dealer. They replaced a vanos solenoid and updated the software. Now the car is a dog. Its slow to accelerate. Only starts to deliver power in the high rpms. The loaner 328 is AMT in manual mode feels faster.

The delay is horrific. The car sucks! If I had test drove the 335 with the current software I would never had bought it.

Quite the opposite for me. I had them update me from the old Progman on purpose. Now is so eager to move from a stand still and low throttle position. It almost feels like there was some lag before. I still haven't put my tune back in as it feels that good now. I just don't have that extra power in the higher rpms. But around town, it feels the same as when you drive a non-turbo and then drive a turbo car. You feel the difference in response.

[dgbuilder]

Originally Posted by fxc335

I had an engine malfunction light and took to the dealer. They replaced a vanos solenoid and updated the software. Now the car is a dog. Its slow to accelerate. Only starts to deliver power in the high rpms. The loaner 328 is AMT in manual mode feels faster.

The delay is horrific. The car sucks! If I had test drove the 335 with the current software I would never had bought it.

Same for me after dealer had my car for a week to replace the HPFP that they updated SW for 6 weeks ago. I pulled out on a right turn in between cars, stomped the accelerator and, nothing. scared me silly. Normally I just shoot right into the gap. This time I felt like an asshole with a fast car who doesn't know how to drive.

My SA told me that the SW was updated in May to 37.2 and this time it went to 38.1 (last week). seems to be getting worse with each visit. If they keep updating I might as well start walking. DG.

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by dgbuilder

Same for me after dealer had my car for a week to replace the HPFP that they updated SW for 6 weeks ago. I pulled out on a right turn in between cars, stomped the accelerator and, nothing. scared me silly. Normally I just shoot right into the gap. This time I felt like an asshole with a fast car who doesn't know how to drive.

My SA told me that the SW was updated in May to 37.2 and this time it went to 38.1 (last week). seems to be getting worse with each visit. If they keep updating I might as well start walking. DG.

lol.
In my case I have a 6/07 car with original fuel pump.

[dgbuilder]

Originally Posted by AltecBX

lol.
In my case I have a 6/07 car with original fuel pump.

And it still drives like a scared cat?!?!? Lucky devil! Some guys have all the luck...

I might need your tune

[AltecBX]

Originally Posted by dgbuilder

And it still drives like a scared cat?!?!? Lucky devil! Some guys have all the luck...

I might need your tune

Has nothing to do with the tune. I still haven't installed the tune back on.
I wonder how different is going to feel when I put the tune back in. Hopefully the same with the extra power. From my experience, I think everyone should get the new v38 from the dealer. The SA told me that the 07 didn't have the HPP problem as it was only the '08 & '09.

[BMWagain]

Originally Posted by Håvard

Hi

My 335i has this:
Car datastatus: E89X-08-09-515

What software version is this? Any need to upgrade?

Hi Håvard.
You have v.31.0
I have v31.1 on my 335iA with E89X-08-09-520.
Mine runs good and strong. I can hear spooling up from turbos below 2000 rpm. I feel power is coming on better after 2000 rpm.

V31.0 was on a friend of mines 2008 335i Coupé.
That car didnt run good at all. Turbolag ruled.
He was so dissapointed he got a 330i instead from BMW with more equipment in it.

How is your car performing?
/Thomas

[BMWagain]

Originally Posted by Quisp

Thanks Pavel, go ahead and screw up a perfectly good conspiracy theory for me with details like that.
Not sure, I didnt realize that there were that few in Euroland. Do the euro versions or US versions have any modifications to the fuel system or any other engine areas for emissions or any other differences that would differentiate them from each other?

Hi Qisp,

I suspect N54 engine to be sensitive for the US fuel quality. Our EU fuel is not the same.We had no hpfp issues what I know of. Just my two cents.
I am pleased with my car(v31.1) performance.Afraid of giving it to upcoming service this year. There must be a reason BMW have 1 turbo twinscrool now instead of biturbos.
Wish I could bug BMW in Munich lol.

[psquires]

So if I was to take in my car to the dealership. What version of the software would I get. I guess what I'm asking is, whats the most recent version of the software and has it been good or bad for the turbo lag? Thanks

[juice13]

Originally Posted by psquires

So if I was to take in my car to the dealership. What version of the software would I get. I guess what I'm asking is, whats the most recent version of the software and has it been good or bad for the turbo lag? Thanks

Just ask for the latest and ask for the turbo lag fix. As of yesterday it was still an option. Warning though, it will exacerbate any existing wastegate rattle noise. I opted out of the fix since the car is driving great with some rattle now.

[itsjappo]

Speaking of this software upgrade, I have my last service scheduled for tomorrow and my SA advised that they have to do a software update as a SIB. My car runs great now with no problems. Should I do this, or just stick to my current software? I don't want to go backwards to a great running car to a super laggy car. Anyone can chime in on their experiences on the latest software update?

[meyergru]

I had a software update to something >= 2.38.1, probably 2.39.x or 2.40.x, whatever is now current.

This was because of problems with the SA 6FL USB audio interface and ID3v2 tags with UTF-8 encoding and cover art > 32 KByte in length and also, because adresses from Google Maps could not be transfered in one go any more (don't know if that feature even exists in the U.S.).

Both problems are finally solved now - the first one was reported by myself and took ~2 years to get fixed (sigh). I even had to pay for the update, since I only have a warranty extension and those problems were considered "feature updates". Whatever.

As some of you know, said ID3v2 problem was the initial cause of my turbo lag odyssey and because it was reported here that 2.38.x had turbo lag again, I was a little nervous about the update.

However, I was assured that nothing could go wrong. In addition to what I have written here, I was told by a real expert (the guy could even remember my car since he saw it quite often a while ago), that the "wastegate retrofit", once applied to a car, stays there and does not have to be re-selected again when you get a subsequent update.

I write this because it was speculated, that starting with 2.33.1, the "wastegate retrofit" option was the default (and I believed that, too). It is not - at least not for cars up to september 2007 production - it just does not have to be re-selected over and over again.

Oh, and BTW: No lag with the new software - just as promised.

[carve]

I was having gradually longer cranks on my 2007 with 40k miles, so I took it in for a fuel pump. They left the fuel pump in and gave me a software update. I explained that software wouldn't cause an intermitent, gradually worsening problem, but they updated it anyway.

The car doesn't crank as long now, but it sounds a little different when it first fires...I think the software does something with the fuel mixture or timing on cold starts, masking the inherent mechanical problem.

The worst part is the car feels much less...robust, than before. It used to really push you back in the seat at just over 2000 rpm, and you'd have to be careful sometimes to not lose traction there was so much torque. Now, it gradually ramps up and you don't feel full-thrust until over 3000 rpm, and then you don't have much more room until you hit torque peak. Even full thrust doesn't feel quite as strong as before, but it is closer than the low rpm thrust is.

Making the problem even worse, the transmission is less eager to downshift, so it's harder to get it over that 3000 rpm hurdle. It used to be if I pushed the throttle down until it touched, but didn't press, the kickdown button, it'd put it about one gear higher than the lowest possible gear, which is nice because I don't like to redline it very often. Now it seems to only kick down a couple of gears at most, making it doubly difficult since not only am I off the boost curve, but the higher gear gives me less wheel torque. This is simply not the same car I bought. It's less sporting, and now a failing critical part is being masked by a software bandaid.

What do I do?

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by carve

What do I do?

Sounds much like you did not request the "wastegate retrofit" option, did you? What you experience is the less-noticeable 2nd-gen lag problem inherent with a MY07 where "wastegate retrofit" has not been selected.

Go back and complain and request the "wastegate valve conversion" as per SIB 111307 (I recommend printing and bringing it along).

Your posting is a kind of proof of what I wrote in my last post: "Wastegate retrofit" is not the default for cars up to 09/07 production - still.

[carve]

Thanks, meyergru. I'm confused though- my wastegate is quiet & rattle-free, and this SIB is for the noise. Does the same thing that causes the noise also cause the wastegate to close too slowly? What exactly is happening here, and what will the SIB change? How is a software update causing a mechanical problem?

I ask because I'll have to "sell this" to my SA, seeing as the SIB is for something other than the problem I'm having.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by carve

Thanks, meyergru. I'm confused though- my wastegate is quiet & rattle-free, and this SIB is for the noise. Does the same thing that causes the noise also cause the wastegate to close too slowly? What exactly is happening here, and what will the SIB change? How is a software update causing a mechanical problem?

I ask because I'll have to "sell this" to my SA, seeing as the SIB is for something other than the problem I'm having.

Yes, it "seems to", but it is not: BMW issued a software update as a band-aid because the wastegates were (or at least: could be) flawed up to build date 09/07. The side-effect of the so-called "rattle fix" was that customers felt "turbo lag".

After much uproar about these side-effects (just read this thread!), BMW decided to let customers of (probably) affected cars decide between a "rattle-fix" or a "lag-fix" in later software versions. The SIB only explains what to do exactly. It was issued initially because of the rattle problem, but it refers to the lag problem, too.

Read all about that here, it should clear up most of your questions.

If your dealer denies the update, have BMW NA customer service explain this press release to them, namely what "may request" in this sentence means:

"Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update. Clients who get this update should understand that there is a possibility of slightly increased engine noise levels under certain circumstances."

If your car does not have rattles, so much the better - mine does not, either, and it is 09/07 right on. Cars before that build date may have the old flawed wastegates, but they don't have to. So, with certain cars, not applying the rattle fix (which is standard for their build date regardless if they actually have flawed wastegates) does not fix anything at all, it only causes turbo lag.

However, if your car indeed has flawed wastegates, it may develop rattles later on ("slightly increased engine noise levels") - but that applied to the initial software as well. BMW simply would have "fixed" the rattles by software.


Basically, it's your choice. And your dealer cannot deny an update with the "wastegate conversion fix" if you are one of "the most sensitive BMW drivers" that can feel the turbo lag.

[carve]

The SIB says they can alter the 2.32.1 software to eliminate the lag at the expense of some noise (presumably the rattle). If that is the case, is the new wastegate actuator a mechanical fix for the noise? If I don't have a rattle, I don't think they'll install the new actuator, right?

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by carve

The SIB says they can alter the 2.32.1 software to eliminate the lag at the expense of some noise (presumably the rattle). If that is the case, is the new wastegate actuator a mechanical fix for the noise? If I don't have a rattle, I don't think they'll install the new actuator, right?

Correct on both accounts. New actuators would be the correct fix.

But, if you read the SIB closely, you will see that the software fix is the only thing that BMW offers now for a rattle fix (unless you pay for an exchange). The software was invented to save costly mechanical fixes in the first place.

That means: They won't change your wastegates if they rattle. Much less so if they don't.

BTW: Because there will be no precautionary mechanical fix, I would not bother about that because of the high cost involved. Also, you don't know if your car will ever develop rattle and even if it did, exchanging the actuators/wastegates or even turbos made things worse for some people (there were times when BMW still offered mechanical fixes within warranty).

Don't worry about rattle, just choose if the new behaviour of the car seems right to you - you CAN get the old one back if you wish.

[carve]

Ahhh...I think I see where my confusion is coming from. You said...

Sounds much like you did not request the "wastegate retrofit" option, did you?

So, by that, you mean retrofitting the software, since you said the only way they'll replace the wastegate is if it rattles, and the software update doesn't fix the rattle, right? Or is there some other way I can get them to throw the other wastegates on for free?

So, if I get this fix, and it eventually rattles, I'm on my own to fix it, right?

This is such BS to sell the car on its normally-aspirated almost-no-lag feel, and then change it so dramatically. I love how the SIB says "...while not substantial, the lag may be perceptible to the most sensitive BMW drivers" WTF!? Most people probably don't know what to think because they'd never consider the dealer would neuter the car as a possibility, and so never mention it.

So, you get to keep the car driving like a BMW, but not sounding like one, or sounding like one, but not driving like one. Thanks, BMW.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by carve

So, by that, you mean retrofitting the software, since you said the only way they'll replace the wastegate is if it rattles, and the software update doesn't fix the rattle, right? Or is there some other way I can get them to throw the other wastegates on for free?

Correct - and no, you cannot. But perhaps, you already have them.

Originally Posted by carve

So, if I get this fix, and it eventually rattles, I'm on my own to fix it, right?

Correct. If rattles ever develop - but yet, they have not and normally, it takes only ~30000 miles, so you may be lucky.

Originally Posted by carve

This is such BS to sell the car on its normally-aspirated almost-no-lag feel, and then change it so dramatically. I love how the SIB says "...while not substantial, the lag may be perceptible to the most sensitive BMW drivers" WTF!? Most people probably don't know what to think because they'd never consider the dealer would neuter the car as a possibility, and so never mention it.

So, you get to keep the car driving like a BMW, but not sounding like one, or sounding like one, but not driving like one. Thanks, BMW.

Correct. That is what this thread is all about: Making a software fix instead of a "real" fix in order to save money and in the process, neutering the car. First, they even denied having done anything, or as I have been told then: "No, that isn't possible." which turned to "O.K., we altered something but you cannot feel that.". It took a few months to even get the choice that the press release refers to.

Standard procedure, I guess. And speaking of sound: Currently, a similar thing is going on with the "individual high end audio" component, whose bass equalisation is altered by the last software updates. Low-frequency bass ( < 30 Hz) is tuned down a few decibels because of a "continuous improvement process". The once-apparent mighty bass (which was the main advantage over the Logic7 system) is now gone.

See (in german):
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/indiv...-t2832886.html

[carve]

Man...thinking about this on my drive home really got my blood boiling. What they did to my car, and thousands of others, amounts to bait & switch at best, and vandalism at worst. I think I now have an equally half-assed software bandaid masking my HPFP symptoms.

There was a class-action lawsuit a few years ago for Miatas being a few horses short, and the owners were compensated. That's just a number though- the cars still drove just as they did on the test drive. What BMW is doing might not change the ultimate HP number (which is very conservative anyway), but it completely changes the character of the car and how it drives. If I wanted something that didn't come alive until 3500 rpm, I would've bought a WRX.

This is my first BMW, and I've had more problems in 1.5 years than all my previous cars combined over 15 years. Very disappointing. However...when everything is running fine......daaammmmnnnn.....it is SUCH a fine drive it makes it all worth it, assuming the problems can be fixed and it drives like on day 1.

[jhbodle]

Originally Posted by meyergru

Currently, a similar thing is going on with the "individual high end audio" component, whose bass equalisation is altered by the last software updates. Low-frequency bass ( < 30 Hz) is tuned down a few decibels because of a "continuous improvement process". The once-apparent mighty bass (which was the main advantage over the Logic7 system) is now gone.

See (in german):
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/indiv...-t2832886.html

What software version did this start from? Any more information on this in English?