[DrFerry]

Toyota Chairman Says “People Are Finally Seeing Reality” Of EVs.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057427

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Toyota Chairman Says “People Are Finally Seeing Reality” Of EVs.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057427

Someone should start a thread on this news from Toyota.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Cuz nobody wants a POS VW

So what, you want Chevrolet Bolt? If you Green Grifters hope to get more people conned into EV's maybe you should have some selection that doesn't cost the better half of $60,000.00.
So here is how this is going to go down. The early adopters (kool aid drinks) are leasing or buying with Government incentives (ie Tax payer money) and will turn over their used EV's with in 2 to 3 years or 40,000 miles. The used market will be incentivized or conned by artificially high gas prices into picking these cars up. They will then enter into technology hell and battery issues with no warranty service to fall back on and from which only personal bankruptcy will free them. They will never buy another EV and will tell all their friends their story of woe and regret. One more nail in the EV coffin.

Or you could have let the free market develop and bring products to market that work and people want. Starting with electric assisted small displacement turbo engines and moving to ward full EV's. Nah, not when you can force people to do something because that always turns out well in history.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Ford's Model E 2023 Q3 Earnings:

$1.3 billion loss ($3.1 billion total loss Q1-Q3)

Negative EBIT margin of -75.6%

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Ford's Model e EV unit said it would cut Mustang Mach-E production and delay a battery plant.

https://insideevs.com/news/693626/fo...ry-ev-sold-q3/

[XutvJet]

Hertz is dialing back it's EV fleet plans due to shit EV resale and higher than expected repair costs. Their EV fleet has a taken a significant chunk out of their profitability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/hert...air-costs.html

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Hertz is dialing back it's EV fleet plans due to shit EV resale and higher than expected repair costs. Their EV fleet has a taken a significant chunk out of their profitability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/hert...air-costs.html

The article was lacking real direct data from Hertz regarding the "higher than expected maintenance costs for EV". It cited a less mature parts logistics system for EV and Teslas and some 3rd party speculation about EV weight and torque delivery as increasing tire and suspension wear. It would be nice to see real data.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Ford's Model e EV unit said it would cut Mustang Mach-E production and delay a battery plant.

https://insideevs.com/news/693626/fo...ry-ev-sold-q3/

"The narrative has taken over that EVs aren't growing; they're growing. It's just growing at a slower pace than the industry and, quite frankly, we expected," Ford Chief Financial Officer John Lawler said on the earnings call according to Automotive News. Lawler said Ford will need less EV capacity in the near term as demand has "softened."


Translated as despite the rhetoric and the legislation and incentive etc the customers aren't prepared to pay for their own punishment.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Someone should start a thread on this news from Toyota.

Sure . But it's something a lot of us know already.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Sure . But it's something a lot of us know already.

It was a joke. There is already a thread on precisely the article and topic.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

It was a joke. There is already a thread on precisely the article and topic.

I realise there is another thread but my point was that ex boss of Toyota is saying something what is known already.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I realise there is another thread but my point was that ex boss of Toyota is saying something what is known already.

Good, because I figured you saw it.

[cfm56d7b]

This article by Mark P. Mills, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute could not be more illuminating on the subject.


https://manhattan.institute/article/...possible-dream

Worth reading from start to finish.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

This article by Mark P. Mills, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute could not be more illuminating on the subject.


https://manhattan.institute/article/...possible-dream

Worth reading from start to finish.

Interesting read and lots to digest. None of it good really. The US has 1 million gas pumps and will need 4 times as many fast chargers to deal with demand if a full conversion to EV's happens. Most gas stations are small businesses, not owned by Oil companies, the cost will be staggering for those businesses and then there will be the need to increase electricity production and delivery to those stations. Those costs will be born out in the cost of electricity at the pump and to your home. Oh and also by all the industries who use electricity for production, those costs will be passed along to consumers. EV's clearly aren't going to make life more affordable, the fact is life will get a lot more expensive.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Interesting read and lots to digest. None of it good really. The US has 1 million gas pumps and will need 4 times as many fast chargers to deal with demand if a full conversion to EV's happens. Most gas stations are small businesses, not owned by Oil companies, the cost will be staggering for those businesses and then there will be the need to increase electricity production and delivery to those stations. Those costs will be born out in the cost of electricity at the pump and to your home. Oh and also by all the industries who use electricity for production, those costs will be passed along to consumers. EV's clearly aren't going to make life more affordable, the fact is life will get a lot more expensive.

You saved me reading it

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Interesting read and lots to digest. None of it good really. The US has 1 million gas pumps and will need 4 times as many fast chargers to deal with demand if a full conversion to EV's happens. Most gas stations are small businesses, not owned by Oil companies, the cost will be staggering for those businesses and then there will be the need to increase electricity production and delivery to those stations. Those costs will be born out in the cost of electricity at the pump and to your home. Oh and all businesses will pass the increased electrical costs to consumers. EV's clearly aren't going to make life more affordable, the fact is life will get a lot more expensive.

Fixed it for you. Unless you're Amish and only work with hand tools with kerosene lanterns when it gets dark, every single business is going to pass the increased operating costs of "keeping the lights on" to the customers. Everything is going to go up in price. People think the current inflationary environment is crushing, they haven't seen anything yet.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

You saved me reading it

It's a long article, but worth the read on a Sunday morning or afternoon. It pretty much covers everything from the mining of battery materials and energy used to do that, to production costs EV vs ICE, technology and the ability to advance for both EV and ICE (ICE has so much more potential and really could be cleaner and cheaper over time). Pretty much in-depth of what much of the discussion has been here for so many pages.


SPOILER ALERT: EV's aren't all they're cracked up to be.

[gonzo]

Strong article/full-blown research documentation. I got ADD zings about a third in. I don't sit still very well.

It's just that his exhaustive efforts will be shunned by The Church.
Heck, they might even call him a racist or a fascist.

Many of us schizophrenic types saw this OBEY nonsense falling apart like a cheap shirt...and here we are.
Companies will only swallow so much loss before a big sod off.

Lmmmmaaaaaooooo will keep believing.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

This article by Mark P. Mills, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute could not be more illuminating on the subject.
https://manhattan.institute/article/...possible-dream
Worth reading from start to finish.

One of the best articles I have read lately.
However the overlooked elephant in the room is drawing conclusion on how we got here. We now live in a post fact world. From Middle East history, economic realities, the history of our planet, facts mean nothing and ideology, peer acceptance and virtue signaling rule the world.
The green hypocrisy of Greta Thunberg is no different than the chants of gay students in support of fundamentalist islamic terrorists. Both lack a base of knowledge and a understanding of history.
The green hypocrites are oblivious to the facts that their efforts to save the planet are in fact causing more damage to the environment and to the economies of millions of people.
We all make decisions on what we want and then set about to weave scenarios to support our wants. We surround our selves with like minded people and ignore or censor opinions or facts that don't support what we want.

[Condorll]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The article was lacking real direct data from Hertz regarding the "higher than expected maintenance costs for EV". It cited a less mature parts logicistics system forvl Teslas and some 3rd party speculation about EV weight and torque delivery as increasing tire and suspension wear. It would be nice to see real data.

I rented a Model Y from Hertz for 24 hours on a short trip. When I got the car it had a 83% charge. I turned it in the next day after driving only 19 miles with 68% charge left. Do the math from 100% to 0% that is 126 miles of range. To add insult to disapointment when I checked in at Hertz the bill claimed I had a 100% charge and because I was under 70% charge when returned a $35 charging fee was applied. I did call Hertz to disupute their 100% but they blew me off even though I only drove 19 miles, also noted on the bill. Learned 2 things on this trip, NEVER rent from HERTZ, and the Model Y, well just say NO.

BTW, the cost of the rental was $166.00 and NO insurance or extras was selected.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Condorll

I rented a Model Y from Hertz for 24 hours on a short trip. When I got the car it had a 83% charge. I turned it in the next day after driving only 19 miles with 68% charge left. Do the math from 100% to 0% that is 126 miles of range. To add insult to disapointment when I checked in at Hertz the bill claimed I had a 100% charge and because I was under 70% charge when returned a $35 charging fee was applied. I did call Hertz to disupute their 100% but they blew me off even though I only drove 19 miles, also noted on the bill. Learned 2 things on this trip, NEVER rent from HERTZ, and the Model Y, well just say NO.

BTW, the cost of the rental was $166.00 and NO insurance or extras was selected.

I'd rather chew tin foil than take an EV for a rental.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

It's a long article, but worth the read on a Sunday morning or afternoon. It pretty much covers everything from the mining of battery materials and energy used to do that, to production costs EV vs ICE, technology and the ability to advance for both EV and ICE (ICE has so much more potential and really could be cleaner and cheaper over time). Pretty much in-depth of what much of the discussion has been here for so many pages.


SPOILER ALERT: EV's aren't all they're cracked up to be.

What the article missed and what most what people still fail to understand is the impact of reducing gasoline usage as EV replace ICEV. I've written numerous times in this thread, changing the ratios of fuels and chemicals distilled from crude oil is mostly fixed within very small deviation on a per-refinery basis. If the world wants aviation fuels to still fly and heating oil to heat homes, and the myriad of chemicals that make the world work and produce products, the amount of gasoline production is fixed in ratio to those other fuels and chemicals. The petrochemical industry just can't stop making gasoline overnight (that means decades) without massive tech refresh of the refinery infrastructure. That will impact all of us with higher costs to operate and enjoy our lives. Reducing gasoline use reduces the other fuels and chemicals that are produced along with it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

"The narrative has taken over that EVs aren't growing; they're growing. It's just growing at a slower pace than the industry and, quite frankly, we expected," Ford Chief Financial Officer John Lawler said on the earnings call according to Automotive News. Lawler said Ford will need less EV capacity in the near term as demand has "softened."


Translated as despite the rhetoric and the legislation and incentive etc the customers aren't prepared to pay for their own punishment.

Utter BS. EV development and production are long term strategic business decisions made by corporations. Drastic change from plans just announced 12 months ago, is the opposite of expectation.