[Socket]

Originally Posted by kookie

Did someone say led replacement mod

Hahhaaha

[ADEe92]

Originally Posted by Socket

Ah no its pre RGB lighting hahah

Fair enough - won't look out of place given the colours on the idrive screen. I'm thinking ahead to a period correct looking head unit for the e30 project - in the current e30 I have a Nakamichi that has an amber setting that is a good match to the BMW amber and it doesn't look too out of place. They are now out of production though. If I'm cashed up at the time, I might go for a Blaupunkt Bremen SQR46, although they're expensive at $875!

I don't think I'd be up for a LED mod on a head unit

[Socket]

Originally Posted by ADEe92

Fair enough - won't look out of place given the colours on the idrive screen. I'm thinking ahead to a period correct looking head unit for the e30 project - in the current e30 I have a Nakamichi that has an amber setting that is a good match to the BMW amber and it doesn't look too out of place. They are now out of production though. If I'm cashed up at the time, I might go for a Blaupunkt Bremen SQR46, although they're expensive at $875!

I don't think I'd be up for a LED mod on a head unit

[MY BM]

Originally Posted by Socket

Yep Ytl got that working too. I repeat he is a Wizard

Hey Socket, sorry to dig up a really old post - but I keep going through your build for ideas

Did you say vtl coded the redline function to work?
I'm looking at buying an m3 cluster and would love to get the redline working...
Cheers

[Socket]

Originally Posted by MY BM

Hey Socket, sorry to dig up a really old post - but I keep going through your build for ideas

Did you say vtl coded the redline function to work?
I'm looking at buying an m3 cluster and would love to get the redline working...
Cheers

No worries, thats what the forum is for

When you say redline do you mean the shift change blinking lights or the redline mark (slider) that shows the red line at 4500 rpm and changes to 6000 rpm when the car heats up

If you mean the later, then yes that works, if you mean the blinking shift change lights, then nope that doesn't work as it requires so kind of special module

Hope this helps

[MY BM]

Fair enough, I was after the blinking shift light feature.

Thanks for your help though!
Might still consider the cluster swap if I can find a cheap one.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by MY BM

Fair enough, I was after the blinking shift light feature.

Thanks for your help though!
Might still consider the cluster swap if I can find a cheap one.

tbh id stick with the stock cluster and spend your money on something else like go fast bits, suspension/handling, a new steering wheel or an audio upgrade... you don't really notice the gauge cluster after a while

[MY BM]

Originally Posted by Socket

tbh id stick with the stock cluster and spend your money on something else like go fast bits, suspension/handling, a new steering wheel or an audio upgrade... you don't really notice the gauge cluster after a while

Thanks for the insight!
In terms of go fast bits, all has been done pretty much except for turbos/inlets.
I just finished a big suspension upgrade (Bilstein B14, m3 control arms up front).

Definitely happy with performance/handling... for now
My interior does need an upgrade though - maybe retrim my wheel, or upgrade that ancient CCC lol

[Socket]

Originally Posted by MY BM

Thanks for the insight!
In terms of go fast bits, all has been done pretty much except for turbos/inlets.
I just finished a big suspension upgrade (Bilstein B14, m3 control arms up front).

Definitely happy with performance/handling... for now
My interior does need an upgrade though - maybe retrim my wheel, or upgrade that ancient CCC lol

Oh nice... I have a spare CIC system and a spare NBT system if you decide to upgrade the CCC

[MY BM]

Originally Posted by Socket

Oh nice... I have a spare CIC system and a spare NBT system if you decide to upgrade the CCC

Thanks mate!

Do you have just the headunits or complete systems? I would be interested depending on what they're worth lol

[jzx_andy]

Hey Socks.

I'm not too sure if you've covered this at some point more recently (forgive me as your thread is long haha), but would you be willing to share some long term thoughts on your single turbo conversion, how it drives, and how it behaves on 98 vs E85 mixes?

Is there anything that you miss with twins, or that you wish you did differently in terms of turbo selection (like physical turbo size, response, headroom for more power, external gate vs internal etc)? I understand your EFR is a bit smaller than the singles that people on the N54 platform usually fit to their cars, and is tailored towards response.

I know all the fitment and tuning headaches you had to deal with your setup initially, which is almost inevitable when modifying a car with custom bits. But I'd love to know your thoughts on the actual setup and your car generally, now that a few years have passed.

Thanks!

[Socket]

Originally Posted by MY BM

Thanks mate!

Do you have just the headunits or complete systems? I would be interested depending on what they're worth lol

I have a complete CIC system - CIC HU, screen and screencable

Also have 1 and 1/2 NBT systems - 2 x NBT HUs, 2 emulators (not sure if both work) NBT LCD screen and harness

I was going to put the CIC system up on market place for $1200 but if you want it, the price will be $850 plus postage.... I can help install when we come out of lockdown if you are local Pics of the CIC system below

[Socket]

Originally Posted by jzx_andy

Hey Socks.

I'm not too sure if you've covered this at some point more recently (forgive me as your thread is long haha), but would you be willing to share some long term thoughts on your single turbo conversion, how it drives, and how it behaves on 98 vs E85 mixes?

Is there anything that you miss with twins, or that you wish you did differently in terms of turbo selection (like physical turbo size, response, headroom for more power, external gate vs internal etc)? I understand your EFR is a bit smaller than the singles that people on the N54 platform usually fit to their cars, and is tailored towards response.

I know all the fitment and tuning headaches you had to deal with your setup initially, which is almost inevitable when modifying a car with custom bits. But I'd love to know your thoughts on the actual setup and your car generally, now that a few years have passed.

Thanks!

Hey Andy

More then happy to share my thoughts on this, although it is probably going to be a long unstructured rant

So to answer your questions first, its probably been a ST car for 3 years now and it drives great. I run it on 98 at about 18 psi boost maxing out at 380KW. It kicks in around 3200 rpm which is a bit sluggish compared to stockies but not too bad if you keep the revs up. Once it kicks in, it pulls pretty hard (not slam you back in your seat hard) but has no problem getting from 100 to 150 in a few seconds. Adding E85 gives it a boost (just like it does on twins) a bit more responsive but after E60 the gains are less noticeable.

The sound of the ST spinning up and the BOV is totally different to the twins of course and is pretty loud in the cabin despite all the sound deadening that been done. I am very happy with the 7670 we selected, it spools up quick and has plenty of power. If anything I might go up maybe one size if I was to get another turbo but would not go any biggest because it would be too laggy. I would also go external waste gate over internal just because of clamping issues with the IWG.

The biggest issue I have had since the install and supporting upgrades (eg helix, oil cooler, bimmerlife coils etc) is having to constantly replace 02 sensors that burn out every few 1000 km. The car runs rough as guts until a new set is installed. Otherwise vac leaks, wastegate rattle and other twin related problems are a thing of the past....



so all that said is a single turbo conversion worth it?


In my opinion.... No



Why you ask? mainly because it is expensive ($12k+) complicated and there are simpler ways to gain KWs. Then there is the heat management issue (no one mentioned ST burn through O2 sensors like candles)

If I had my time over I would have stuck with OEM turbos, a MHD tune, E85 and some FBO mods to get 300KW and be done. Tbh even if your car can make 450KW you never get close to ever using it, and spend 99% of your driving well below 300 Kw.... Proof of this is when out on a cruise with a bunch of peeps. Sure one car might get a couple of lengths on the others but the gap is lost pretty quickly in the bends where suspension and tire selection is more important. Most of the legends of the N54 platform like Vincent L and Peter A run cars with OEM turbos and they leave me for dead even though I'm putting out 100 KW more then them

So in short the quest for power and KW is a powerful magnet that everyone falls for (including me) .... reality is a stock engine can only deal with about 420 kw before spinning a bearing or something. So if you push for 400+ you need a built engine which has its own issues.. Hitting 400 KW is not so hard with a set of aftermarket twins, port injection, E85 and a tune.... a ST is not needed to hit the 400 mark... which takes us back to the single turbo question

The cost
If you are getting a shop to do this for you, expect to part with $12-$14K and have the car in their shop for 4 - 6 months. The ST build is a big job and workshops like to focus on the small jobs they can turn over quick to generate cash. That means your car will still idle for long stretches of time, as they work on it when they find time.....

If you are doing this yourself, then you will saving $ on the labour (obviosuly) but still expect to fork out $7-$8K in parts. A decent turbo will set you back $2-$3K plus another $1K for wastegates and the basic pipework..... dont be tempted to buy someone's old kit or an off the shelf kit.... chances are it wont fit and you will end up having to buy new parts (like I did when I spent $10K buying Ducks kit)

Oh and a word on turbo selection.... the bigger the turbo the longer it will take to kick in (lag). My ST is relatively small and kicks in around 3200 rpm. Even that is a bit laggy, given most of the time im cruising at about 2500 rpm. A big turbo might not kick in until 3800 or more. It will definitely pull above 4000 to 7000 but def not as response as twins....

Also you need to make sure the turbo you select will physically fit in the engine bay. There is not much room to move in any direction tbh (remember how I had to beat the shit out of my bonnet because it was rubbing on the turbo).... once again mine is not a big ST and there is literally only a few MM clearance around it and that is just enough to allow for everything moving in the engine bay when cornering, going over bumps etc
So the point here is, you cant just buy a monster turbo and 1 expect it to fit and 2 expect it to be responsive... it just wont happen.

The Install
So why is it so expensive and complicated? Well the actually turbo and wastegates are not that expensive tbh.. its all the other stuff that needs to be done and all those little things add up to a lot.. For example, to make room on the drivers side, the water tank, vac canisters and wiring needed to be relocated to the passenger side.... simple...but then you need new support brackets, move the power steering tank, new water pipes to connect the newly located water tank to the cars plumbing etc etc.

Then there a heap of custom pipework including an exhaust manifold (to direct the exhaust gases into the turbo) a custom down pipe (to connect the turbo to the exhaust) a custom Y pipe (to connect the down pipe to the exhaust pipes) plus new O2 sensor bungs, pipes from the turbo to the inter-cooler (plus a new inter-cooler because the stock one wont cope)

Then you need oil and water blocks offs (because you only need to access one of each given you are no longer running twins) plus new water and oil lines for the turbo. New pipework for the waste gates or if you are running an internal WG turbo, a new actuator and boost solenoids set up (to control the waste gates).... then there is air supply to the turbo (if you have room) you can bolt on a pod filter or (if you have big balls) a turbo guard. But you probably wont have room and will need some sort of custom intake....

Oil cooling will be your next headache so unless you already have FMOC you will need an oil cooler upgrade.... talking about heat, dont forget to buy a turbo beanie and some heat shielding material for wiring, pipework and sheeting to make a heat sheild to protect the coils and engine cover, and another one to protect the air con lines (i melted my air con lines and engine cover before making some shields) and you'll have to wrap all those custom pipes or get them ceramic coated

Then of course there is no point doing all this work and running an off the shelf MHD map, so you will need a custom tune, plus some form of LPFP and fueling upgrades otherwise you will run short of fuel before hitting 330KW
and the list goes on........

If you get this far and have a ST installed, they are pretty reliable tbh... no rattling waste gates, smoking turbos, vac leaks or the need for fancy inlets...

Probably the biggest problem I experience is having to replace the 02 sensors every 2000 or 3000 Km. At $500-$600 for a set, its a pretty expensive maintenance item.... The reason they burn out so quick, is because the exhaust gases are so much hotter then stock. The solution is to install the heavy duty ADV O2 sensors (at $700USD if you can find them) or to install 02 spacers. I just installed some on mine, so Ill see how much difference they make

Also if you get to this point you are probably putting out more power then your old auto trans and diff can handle, so gear slippage etc is probably your next problem. In my case this pushed us into doing the auto to manual conversion and installing a 1M driveline and diff

The verdict
As I eluded to earlier there are much easier ways to get power then going the ST route. Port injection, aftermarket twins, upgraded coil pack, E60 and a custom tune will get you there for a fraction of the cost and work

For those that really don't care and want to stump up to the challenge......... when the job is done, the ST is super reliable and must easier to access and work on (top mount that is).
Also there is no doubt the ST pulls much harder and all the way to red line without fading like twins. Its not better, just different where you trade off down low response for up top grunt.

Then there is the undeniable wow factor of having the big stonking turbo sticking out of the engine bay when you open the hood... maybe that's the best reason of all to go ST

Socket Out

[Socket]

a short clip below

[Socket]

[Socket]

hmmm thinking its time for a new belt

[Aus335iguy]

Originally Posted by Socket

hmmm thinking its time for a new belt

That couldve ended badly!!!

[Socket]

Originally Posted by Aus335iguy

That couldve ended badly!!!

Very

[Socket]

Morning shot

[jzx_andy]

Originally Posted by Socket

Hey Andy

More then happy to share my thoughts on this, although it is probably going to be a long unstructured rant

So to answer your questions first, its probably been a ST car for 3 years now and it drives great. I run it on 98 at about 18 psi boost maxing out at 380KW. It kicks in around 3200 rpm which is a bit sluggish compared to stockies but not too bad if you keep the revs up. Once it kicks in, it pulls pretty hard (not slam you back in your seat hard) but has no problem getting from 100 to 150 in a few seconds. Adding E85 gives it a boost (just like it does on twins) a bit more responsive but after E60 the gains are less noticeable.

The sound of the ST spinning up and the BOV is totally different to the twins of course and is pretty loud in the cabin despite all the sound deadening that been done. I am very happy with the 7670 we selected, it spools up quick and has plenty of power. If anything I might go up maybe one size if I was to get another turbo but would not go any biggest because it would be too laggy. I would also go external waste gate over internal just because of clamping issues with the IWG.

The biggest issue I have had since the install and supporting upgrades (eg helix, oil cooler, bimmerlife coils etc) is having to constantly replace 02 sensors that burn out every few 1000 km. The car runs rough as guts until a new set is installed. Otherwise vac leaks, wastegate rattle and other twin related problems are a thing of the past....



so all that said is a single turbo conversion worth it?


In my opinion.... No



Why you ask? mainly because it is expensive ($12k+) complicated and there are simpler ways to gain KWs. Then there is the heat management issue (no one mentioned ST burn through O2 sensors like candles)

If I had my time over I would have stuck with OEM turbos, a MHD tune, E85 and some FBO mods to get 300KW and be done. Tbh even if your car can make 450KW you never get close to ever using it, and spend 99% of your driving well below 300 Kw.... Proof of this is when out on a cruise with a bunch of peeps. Sure one car might get a couple of lengths on the others but the gap is lost pretty quickly in the bends where suspension and tire selection is more important. Most of the legends of the N54 platform like Vincent L and Peter A run cars with OEM turbos and they leave me for dead even though I'm putting out 100 KW more then them

So in short the quest for power and KW is a powerful magnet that everyone falls for (including me) .... reality is a stock engine can only deal with about 420 kw before spinning a bearing or something. So if you push for 400+ you need a built engine which has its own issues.. Hitting 400 KW is not so hard with a set of aftermarket twins, port injection, E85 and a tune.... a ST is not needed to hit the 400 mark... which takes us back to the single turbo question

The cost
If you are getting a shop to do this for you, expect to part with $12-$14K and have the car in their shop for 4 - 6 months. The ST build is a big job and workshops like to focus on the small jobs they can turn over quick to generate cash. That means your car will still idle for long stretches of time, as they work on it when they find time.....

If you are doing this yourself, then you will saving $ on the labour (obviosuly) but still expect to fork out $7-$8K in parts. A decent turbo will set you back $2-$3K plus another $1K for wastegates and the basic pipework..... dont be tempted to buy someone's old kit or an off the shelf kit.... chances are it wont fit and you will end up having to buy new parts (like I did when I spent $10K buying Ducks kit)

Oh and a word on turbo selection.... the bigger the turbo the longer it will take to kick in (lag). My ST is relatively small and kicks in around 3200 rpm. Even that is a bit laggy, given most of the time im cruising at about 2500 rpm. A big turbo might not kick in until 3800 or more. It will definitely pull above 4000 to 7000 but def not as response as twins....

Also you need to make sure the turbo you select will physically fit in the engine bay. There is not much room to move in any direction tbh (remember how I had to beat the shit out of my bonnet because it was rubbing on the turbo).... once again mine is not a big ST and there is literally only a few MM clearance around it and that is just enough to allow for everything moving in the engine bay when cornering, going over bumps etc
So the point here is, you cant just buy a monster turbo and 1 expect it to fit and 2 expect it to be responsive... it just wont happen.

The Install
So why is it so expensive and complicated? Well the actually turbo and wastegates are not that expensive tbh.. its all the other stuff that needs to be done and all those little things add up to a lot.. For example, to make room on the drivers side, the water tank, vac canisters and wiring needed to be relocated to the passenger side.... simple...but then you need new support brackets, move the power steering tank, new water pipes to connect the newly located water tank to the cars plumbing etc etc.

Then there a heap of custom pipework including an exhaust manifold (to direct the exhaust gases into the turbo) a custom down pipe (to connect the turbo to the exhaust) a custom Y pipe (to connect the down pipe to the exhaust pipes) plus new O2 sensor bungs, pipes from the turbo to the inter-cooler (plus a new inter-cooler because the stock one wont cope)

Then you need oil and water blocks offs (because you only need to access one of each given you are no longer running twins) plus new water and oil lines for the turbo. New pipework for the waste gates or if you are running an internal WG turbo, a new actuator and boost solenoids set up (to control the waste gates).... then there is air supply to the turbo (if you have room) you can bolt on a pod filter or (if you have big balls) a turbo guard. But you probably wont have room and will need some sort of custom intake....

Oil cooling will be your next headache so unless you already have FMOC you will need an oil cooler upgrade.... talking about heat, dont forget to buy a turbo beanie and some heat shielding material for wiring, pipework and sheeting to make a heat sheild to protect the coils and engine cover, and another one to protect the air con lines (i melted my air con lines and engine cover before making some shields) and you'll have to wrap all those custom pipes or get them ceramic coated

Then of course there is no point doing all this work and running an off the shelf MHD map, so you will need a custom tune, plus some form of LPFP and fueling upgrades otherwise you will run short of fuel before hitting 330KW
and the list goes on........

If you get this far and have a ST installed, they are pretty reliable tbh... no rattling waste gates, smoking turbos, vac leaks or the need for fancy inlets...

Probably the biggest problem I experience is having to replace the 02 sensors every 2000 or 3000 Km. At $500-$600 for a set, its a pretty expensive maintenance item.... The reason they burn out so quick, is because the exhaust gases are so much hotter then stock. The solution is to install the heavy duty ADV O2 sensors (at $700USD if you can find them) or to install 02 spacers. I just installed some on mine, so Ill see how much difference they make

Also if you get to this point you are probably putting out more power then your old auto trans and diff can handle, so gear slippage etc is probably your next problem. In my case this pushed us into doing the auto to manual conversion and installing a 1M driveline and diff

The verdict
As I eluded to earlier there are much easier ways to get power then going the ST route. Port injection, aftermarket twins, upgraded coil pack, E60 and a custom tune will get you there for a fraction of the cost and work

For those that really don't care and want to stump up to the challenge......... when the job is done, the ST is super reliable and must easier to access and work on (top mount that is).
Also there is no doubt the ST pulls much harder and all the way to red line without fading like twins. Its not better, just different where you trade off down low response for up top grunt.

Then there is the undeniable wow factor of having the big stonking turbo sticking out of the engine bay when you open the hood... maybe that's the best reason of all to go ST

Socket Out

Thanks for the detailed reply buddy. Your setup is very responsive for ST and flows well. I think its about as good as it gets in terms of balancing responsiveness and not going so small that it chokes at higher RPM's.

I think it is unfair to expect an ST setup to get close to the same sort of response you get with an FBO sort of build. The stockers are ridiculously responsive, but fall off so hard that you may as well drop the N54 redline from to about 6k. May aswell get into a Barra or an M57 diesel if you're into that type of stuff

I agree with your sentiment that ST isn't worth it if all you are chasing is 300-400rwkw or daily driving. A pair of non-rattling stock twins on e50 or PS2's/17t's is a comparatively cheap and pretty happy place to be when it comes to these cars. And they punch so hard around town.

I think for anyone on here with a toy that's not a daily driver, shifting the powerband up closer to redline, improving the exhaust note and having a turbo manufacturer that's proven over countless other platforms does make the extra thousands of $$ and headaches worth it.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by jzx_andy

Thanks for the detailed reply buddy. Your setup is very responsive for ST and flows well. I think its about as good as it gets in terms of balancing responsiveness and not going so small that it chokes at higher RPM's.

I think it is unfair to expect an ST setup to get close to the same sort of response you get with an FBO sort of build. The stockers are ridiculously responsive, but fall off so hard that you may as well drop the N54 redline from to about 6k. May aswell get into a Barra or an M57 diesel if you're into that type of stuff

I agree with your sentiment that ST isn't worth it if all you are chasing is 300-400rwkw or daily driving. A pair of non-rattling stock twins on e50 or PS2's/17t's is a comparatively cheap and pretty happy place to be when it comes to these cars. And they punch so hard around town.

I think for anyone on here with a toy that's not a daily driver, shifting the powerband up closer to redline, improving the exhaust note and having a turbo manufacturer that's proven over countless other platforms does make the extra thousands of $$ and headaches worth it.

Thanks Andy

Now let me introduce you to my latest project

Bone stock 2008 E92 335i

[ADEe92]

Nice - looks like it needs a bit less work than my e30 project

What are your plans for it?