[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Noir

AND ITS A HATCH?!?
Damn, son!

BTW check out my range!
I'm sure it'll be a little less w/ all the stop n go traffic... This is after a 7 mile trip home from nearest e85 pump and a 14 mile trip to work (why am I here today? )

You're going to see that the range is really really off when you run e85! Reset the mini odometer when you fill up and keep track of miles that way for more accuracy! My car says I have ~300 miles of range and it turns out to be like 150-180 miles

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Perfect, thanks.

M3 injectors, about $25 each.

Where?

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

You're going to see that the range is really really off when you run e85! Reset the mini odometer when you fill up and keep track of miles that way for more accuracy! My car says I have ~300 miles of range and it turns out to be like 150-180 miles

yeah, it's based on injector pulse width and the expected fuel flow. There's a scalar that you can use to adjust this so the range and MPG are accurate - c_crlc_fco_av. E85 contains less energy and the injectors are bigger than stock, so it's likely to be optimistic otherwise.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

You're going to see that the range is really really off when you run e85! Reset the mini odometer when you fill up and keep track of miles that way for more accuracy! My car says I have ~300 miles of range and it turns out to be like 150-180 miles

Noted

[CobraMarty]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

Where?

Ebay where else.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Ebay where else.

Ahh, so not new.

[hassmaschine]

you can get them rebuilt to better than new for under $100, so it's still probably worth it

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you can get them rebuilt to better than new for under $100, so it's still probably worth it

I would probably do that. I've heard* so many stories about leaking injectors, but I doubt it happens often.

[hassmaschine]

I doubt there are many M3s out there with enough miles on them to have leaking injectors - people part out their cars over a broken headlight these days.

[CobraMarty]

Insurance Companies will total a car for a door ding, Ha.

[Cdutch513]

I know it's a fairly expensive route but I kinda wanna get an F80 M3 W2A intercooler and play around with placement. It seems like it would be way more complicated than meth but at least you don't have to keep filling up your methanol tank and worry about running out. A little ice would make for some nice mountain drives.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Back to talking about intercoolers, a difference between the N52 and N54/N55 is the radiator, ours is about 3/4th the size of yours to have room for the intercooler and the piping underneath. N54 radiator would be cheap at a junkyard, Craigslist, eBay and should share the same mounting points to the chassis. That may have been the trouble about Fitment that everyone was talking about.. Might be worth a look!

[Noir]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

Back to talking about intercoolers, a difference between the N52 and N54/N55 is the radiator, ours is about 3/4th the size of yours to have room for the intercooler and the piping underneath. N54 radiator would be cheap at a junkyard, Craigslist, eBay and should share the same mounting points to the chassis. That may have been the trouble about Fitment that everyone was talking about.. Might be worth a look!

and with that being said, do you think we would lose efficiency? silly question... I know you guys have to run hotter than us, but given different dimensions and all...

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I know it's a fairly expensive route but I kinda wanna get an F80 M3 W2A intercooler and play around with placement. It seems like it would be way more complicated than meth but at least you don't have to keep filling up your methanol tank and worry about running out. A little ice would make for some nice mountain drives.

The main problem on the street is, keeping the water cold / cool enough all the time for it to do any effect at all. Unless you want to keep adding ice to keep it cold and then drain it out as it fills up etc. You also are going to be making your own ice with distilled water I would assume(have fun). After a few pulls the air from the SC is going to warm that water up. Water does not stay cold for long. It's going to end up close enough to ambient temp after a night in the garage and unlike air, will heat up higher than ambient air temp which means it will function worse than an a2a intercooler.

You could use your AC to cool the water but that makes the system even more complicated with even more failure points etc.

FWIW as you are not using the meth for fueling on this platform you would have to spray that much and you probably would want to go 50/50 meth/water so a 5 gallon pail is going to last you a while. My 2 gallon meth tank lasts me plenty long. My meth gauge tells me when I am running low. Filling it up takes all of 2 minutes.

The A2W will be massively more complicated to install and will have more potential points of failure. It's being done on an N54 on another forearm. Or at least attempted.

A barrel style might make more sense vs. trying to get the m3 w2a intercooler to fit:



Personally I think w2a sounds cool at 1st. But once you really think about it and the steps you have to do to keep the water at or below ambient...it's a lot of work. Certainly much more work than a meth kit and adding a few gallons of meth every other month. That being said, go for it if you want a project...

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Noir

and with that being said, do you think we would lose efficiency? silly question... I know you guys have to run hotter than us, but given different dimensions and all...

Eh I doubt you'd lose any efficiency, it's just a slightly smaller tank. Tt would be interesting to compare the core sizes between them, they could be the same or slightly different. Shouldn't be too much off to fit in the same chassis, but the easiest way to fit one while keeping the A/C would be to try this route, that way it gives room for plumbing to go to the back

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Torgus

The main problem on the street is, keeping the water cold / cool enough all the time for it to do any effect at all. Unless you want to keep adding ice to keep it cold and then drain it out as it fills up etc. You also are going to be making your own ice with distilled water I would assume(have fun). After a few pulls the air from the SC is going to warm that water up. Water does not stay cold for long. It's going to end up close enough to ambient temp after a night in the garage and unlike air, will heat up higher than ambient air temp which means it will function worse than an a2a intercooler.




Personally I think w2a sounds cool at 1st. But once you really think about it and the steps you have to do to keep the water at or below ambient...it's a lot of work. Certainly much more work than a meth kit and adding a few gallons of meth every other month. That being said, go for it if you want a project...

I disagree with this, the F8X water to air intercooler is by far a phenomenal system. And no water needs to be changed out, it's a recirculating system.. My buddies F80 M3 after logging with JB4 the IAT would increase so slightly and drop down immediately to slightly above ambient after back to back pulls and racing. And look at some logs for that platform, the IAT is never an issue on stock cooling with no meth. Being able to fit one would give the best results IMO.

Edit:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51332

M4 being pushed to the max, look at the logs. IAT is basically a flat line across the board.

W2A intercooler ftw.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by WeekendWarriorz

I disagree with this, the F8X water to air intercooler is by far a phenomenal system. And no water needs to be changed out, it's a recirculating system.. My buddies F80 M3 after logging with JB4 the IAT would increase so slightly and drop down immediately to slightly above ambient after back to back pulls and racing. And look at some logs for that platform, the IAT is never an issue on stock cooling with no meth. Being able to fit one would give the best results IMO.

Edit:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51332

M4 being pushed to the max, look at the logs. IAT is basically a flat line across the board.

W2A intercooler ftw.

I mention ice and draining because Cdutch513 mentioned adding ice. So there would have to be an aftermarket reservoir where ice could be added and drained.

One draw back is once the water becomes heat soaked, it takes much longer to cool down vs a conventional air/air. That being said it does take longer to heatsoak.

On the N52 you would be adding the pump, water lines, electric power/controls, a front mount radiator, and then fabbing up a w2a intercooler, piping, mounting brackets, etc. You already have to put a radiator on the front of the car, why not just use an a2a intercooler and call it a day? Less plumbing chance of leaks, less weight, less work, less expensive, etc.

While the AIT does rise it's hard to see because of how those graphs are scaled via the JB4. I know there are alot of upgraded IC on the market for the S55 but I would imagine the stock system works rather well. BMW did it for throttle response iirc, not for superior cooling.

One disadvantage to keep in mind is that a w2a type of system is much heavier (water lines, water pump, radiator) when compared to a simple air-to-air intercooler.

At the end of the day I think the a2w if just overkill on a SC n52. But someone wants to do it, more power(pun) to them.

[Cdutch513]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I mention ice and draining because Cdutch513 mentioned adding ice. So there would have to be an aftermarket reservoir where ice could be added and drained.

One draw back is once the water becomes heat soaked, it takes much longer to cool down vs a conventional air/air. That being said it does take longer to heatsoak.

On the N52 you would be adding the pump, water lines, electric power/controls, a front mount radiator, and then fabbing up a w2a intercooler, piping, mounting brackets, etc. You already have to put a radiator on the front of the car, why not just use an a2a intercooler and call it a day? Less plumbing chance of leaks, less weight, less work, less expensive, etc.

While the AIT does rise it's hard to see because of how those graphs are scaled via the JB4. I know there are alot of upgraded IC on the market for the S55 but I would imagine the stock system works rather well. BMW did it for throttle response iirc, not for superior cooling.

One disadvantage to keep in mind is that a w2a type of system is much heavier (water lines, water pump, radiator) when compared to a simple air-to-air intercooler.

At the end of the day I think the a2w if just overkill on a SC n52. But someone wants to do it, more power(pun) to them.

I think plumbing would be easier for the W2a. For a2a you'd have to figure how to get the plumbing back over the supercharger then back to the tb. With w2a, it would all air plumbing would be after the supercharger. With lines running water to and from the front.

[CobraMarty]

Packaging the a2a would be tough. Getting 2x 2.5-3" tubes, 1 going forward to IC and the other backwards to TB, both on the same side and IC with both in and out on the same end, would be difficult.

w2a is not a whole bunch easier but would be quite doable.

[Biginboca]

Seems like a A2A would be better WRX style on top of the motor with a scoop into a hood cut out.

free pic upload

Maybe there’s one with the in and out on the same side (obviously both on drivers side would be the needed set up).

[Torgus]

Or just inject methanol. It not only cools the air but it adds octane. Best of both for the least money and basically zero fab work.

[Phyrexia]

I don't know much about WRXs, but the FC and FD RX7s had top mount intercoolers and one of the first things those guys do is swap out for a FMIC. Top mounts tend to heat soak pretty badly.

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Seems like a A2A would be better WRX style on top of the motor with a scoop into a hood cut out.

Maybe there’s one with the in and out on the same side (obviously both on drivers side would be the needed set up).