[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by stillclaimndp

if i blew my turbos and somehow my motor, i would park my car and wait for someone to total their's, buy their motor... save 20-24k. 30k for a motor in a 42k car Hotrod182? Come on...

+1

The dealership is taking this guy for a MAJOR ride.

Same with the doctor friend above who paid $10,000 for cats.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by lawdude

So far it's just me and midlife. Any other big talkers willing to contribute?

Count me in. You might want to ask hotrod182's employer. They made a good bit of money off of all this. I'm sure they have a little to spare jk

[lawdude]

That's three. How do we find out who can do it and how much it'll cost? I'll commit to a minimum of $50.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Maybe next time your goal should be to help the customer and not flex your e90post status. You're diagnostics on James' car was laughable. I took me all of 5 minutes to diagnose what was wrong. And not much longer to have it fixed. A problem that you guys blamed on the PROcede and/or a damaged engine. It's just a shame he had to drive 350 miles to have it done when the professionals at the dealership couldn't figure it out with all their fancy diagnostic equipment.

And the fact that you posted pictures of the customers car online without his knowledge or permission also makes me question your misplaced motives.

Regardless, I'm glad the customer is back on the road. It's just unfortunate that he had to pay for 2 turbos when he only needed one. But then again, he did escape the unnecessary and outlandish engine rebuild/replacement quote you guys presented to him.

Shiv

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I don't believe you did any compression checks, etc on the engine in your "5 minutes" of diagnostics.

Did the dealer? What evidence was there of compression loss when a compression test was deemed necessary? Can we see the results of the test?

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Bully the guy who wants us to read between the lines? No way. But I do respect you for being willing to step up to the plate.

I have no clue what independent lab checks out turbos. Anybody have any contacts?

Send it to forced performance. they split open lots of turbos - and mitsubishi ones at that. TD-04s, 03s, 06s, and all wheels, 13G, 13T, 16G 18G 20G. Our's may be a little guy, but they should feel right at home doing a little diagnostics with one.

I'd throw in a few bucks definitely. Say $25 for now.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Did the dealer? What evidence was there of compression loss when a compression test was deemed necessary? Can we see the results of the test?

Here's what they did. They told the customer that the engine was blown. Told him it would cost some outlandish amount of money to replace. Customer called me and I suggested to him that he demand a compression test. The dealership did the test. Miraculously, the results turned out to be fine and a new engine was not needed. So then they replaced both turbos, $10k in cats, and then installed 3 good and 1 bad o2 sensor. And sent him limping along his way.

Shiv

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Here's what they did. They told the customer that the engine was blown. Told him it would cost some outlandish amount of money to replace. Customer called me and I suggested to him that he demand a compression test. The dealership did the test. Miraculously, the results turned out to be fine and a new engine was not needed. So then they replaced both turbos, $10k in cats, and then installed 3 good and 1 bad o2 sensor. And sent him limping along his way.

Shiv

Wait, so you asked for the compression test?



What evidence did they proved for a "blown engine" What precisely was "wrong?"

[hotrod182]

Sorry guys, just give a call to Garrett, I know that they don't make our turbos, but they do have "some" expertise in this field. But I think you will find that they will agree (if your present them with all the facts) that this is 99% going to look like a typical turbo bearing failure due to over rpm, overloading. It will not be from not receiving oil. It will not be from bubbles in the bearing material, or some other bearing defect. It will not be from an out of balance/defective CHRA assembly. I'm not going to accuse one tune over the other unless Shiv persists in elevating this to levels of immaturity that I feel that I compelled to defend my viewpoints.

Also Shiv, in your statement when you said that the front turbo was perfectly fine, do you mean it is perfectly usable, or that it has a normal amount of play for a car with this little mileage on it. So maybe its only 50% worn, and could go another 10,000 miles or so before it blows?

Okay, I compressed some pictures for all of you. Here is the picture of the rear and front turbos. You can see that the turbo play is so bad the compressor blades are actually folded on their edges. And below that is the picture of the front turbo compressor blades.

In the last picture you can see the severe oil leakage from the destroyed oil seals. The oil was dumped in the Cats, and ingested in the engine. The exhaust manifold was full of oil on the rear 3 cylinders. There was so much oil ingested in the engine, even with the engine warm, the highest compression it would generate was about 170PSI. I'm sure those with their handy dandy calculators will know that normally an engine with over 10:1 compression should have well over that reading. But of course rings, etc, are fouled out, etc. There was no demand for an engine replacement contrary to Shivs conjecture. There was fear that there could be further, more severe engine damage. James is a great guy, and I wish him all the luck. All along I had felt sorry that he had to suffer such a devastating failure. Only long term results, oil consumption tests, etc, will see if he is really out of the woods like Shiv is implying. Bottom line, regardless of Shivs attempt to defend running higher boost levels on such small high speed turbos...don't take my opinion, talk to a major manufacturer and present all the facts. Car with fairly low mileage. Running 30-50% more boost on small high speed turbos, and turbo bearing failure occurred. Ask them what the greatest contributor to this failure would most likely be. Also tell them that several other people running this same tune are now experiencing loud turbo whine, whereas the stock turbo whine/failures are comparatively nonexistant. Then post when the engineers tell you...and let people make up their own minds. Oh, and don't forget to talk to some other manufacturers of HPFPs, be it petrol or diesel, and ask them what the consequences of running higher fuel pressures for 30% or 50% more of the time in some instances, see what their "professional" opinions are. Sure the BMW turbos and fuel pumps may be comparatively fragile, but then that would only emphasize my point even more.

[MisterSkiMask]

[AWD Addict]

[edit]

misread post

One of my all time favorites. I had to reach way back for this one...

[Dascamel]

Thanks for the pics and info.... Yeah, in my non expert opinion, the second turbo is showing a significant amount of wear.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Dascamel

Thanks for the pics and info.... Yeah, in my non expert opinion, the second turbo is showing a significant amount of wear.

Here is a link to the video of the front turbo:

And of course, the completely wasted rear turbo:

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Count me in. You might want to ask hotrod182's employer. They made a good bit of money off of all this. I'm sure they have a little to spare jk

Actually, I will bet with just a dozen Procede sales, you made more money than anyone in question. JK

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Here is a link to the video of the front turbo:

And of course, the completely wasted rear turbo:

That turbo looks drained. without oil in the housing, there's def going to be a little play in there. Also, aren't these thrust type bearings? I remember the cartridge being totally different than a ball bearing or sleeve bearing style.

Nice music.

[badass335]

Count me in for $50 towards a cause as well. Hell, i'll throw in $100 if we can have both looked at!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

That turbo looks drained. without oil in the housing, there's def going to be a little play in there.

Nice music.

+1. Especially when you apply that much force. I've felt that same very turbo myself and the amount of play was typical of any oil bearing turbo.

Shiv

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

That turbo looks drained. without oil in the housing, there's def going to be a little play in there.

Nice music.

Remember this car is almost new, not some car with over 30,000 miles or so.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Remember this car is almost new, not some car with over 30,000 miles or so.

Have you ever checked play on a lower mileage stock turbo?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Wait, so you asked for the compression test?



What evidence did they proved for a "blown engine" What precisely was "wrong?"

Beats me. Who needs evidence these days

shiv

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Have you ever checked play on a lower mileage stock turbo?

Actually I have had the opportunity to analyze some other failing turbos. Guess what, this time it was the front turbo. Amazing, both turbos don't "let go" at the same time. Bet you the other turbo in this scenario won't be to far behind in failure. Bottom line, another modded 335i. Guess there "might" be some correlation? Believe what you want. Don't take my word for it, talk to the professional engineers, or take Shiv's advice as gospel.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Remember this car is almost new, not some car with over 30,000 miles or so.

It doesn't matter. without oil in thehousing, the shaft will appear to have more play. I'm just saying it's not a very scientific determinant anyways, and then, without any oil in there, it's worse. it's pretty silly to guess a turbo's health based on wiggling the fins around on youtube.

I also think that typically people talk about shaft play with a ball bearing or sleeve bearing cartridge. A thrust bearing is totally different. I'm probably remembering this part all wrong, but i think that's significant. But it's no matter. It's common knowledge that without oil in there there will be movement.

This is kind of a ridiculous discussion, don't you think hotrod? you can't tell us why the engine was blown, and then you ran a compression test and there were no problems. you told a guy his turbo was blown, and it wasn't. you let a customer leave your shop with a car not functioning properly.

and you're bitching at shiv?