[Borti]

Originally Posted by PresaMat

Ill try to explain a little for shiv... i believe he already explained earlier. Its the combo of the XEDE and the exhaust that allow the great numbers. Without exhaust the XEDE can only be tuned to a certain point say 50% of its full ability - the exhaust greatly reduces backpressure so shiv is able to really jack up the performance with the XEDE. I hope i explained clearly.

Exactly, increasing power without eliminating as much back-pressure as possible makes things get really hot really fast.

[jgannonloans]

Hey Shiv, i just picked up my 335i tonight. i've been reading this thread since page 2 and i am extremley interested, my car's only got 30miles on it right now, and i am breaking it right now and was told to wait until approx. 1500 or so to really get on it. how long would you reccomend to wait until doing the xede and exhaust? i live in Vegas and wouldn't mind possibly doing the drive, i've done it a couple of times. i appreciate it, thx

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

I think its time for another thread, this one is getting wayyy to long.

[335i=:)]

I use to build Jeep's with my dad as a kid. We took a engine out of a totaled covette with 14k miles on it and dropped in in our 84' cj7. In order to handle the power we had to upgrade the driveline and we took rear axles out of f-150 pickup's and cut and fit them for the jeep to handle the power. Although working on cars with my dad as a kid, he did pretty much everything and liked having me around. I didn't learn anything. My point is I'm mechanically inept. After reading this entire thread it makes me wonder how tuff the drivetrain is in the 335. Is it the same rear end as a 550i or a 750i? Is the steptronic the same steptronic as a 550i or a 750i? If so, I would assume the drivetrain would be fine with the added power from the xede + exhaust. I'm not sure if this is a silly question or not seeing as how these specifics haven't been addressed in this LONG thread.

335i sedan in transport baby!
Here in december, one week later I'm gone to new zealand for a month

Another question shiv. Will the first xede + exhaust be crush or mandrel bent?
Is the xede totally programmed before it's shipped so it's just plug in play? Is there any benefit to having you install it in your shop?

[stressdoc]

I 'm looking forward to the first thread by a lister that has this monster installed!

[fatalglitch]

Freakin sweet.....can't wait till you start shipping them!!!

[335i=:)]

Shiv,

Did you retest the stock dyno numbers after taking the car into the dealer and having the ecu updated. I'd be pissed if the RWP went from the 275-285 down to 260. In another thread after getting the ecu updated and having his car dyno tested he said it was at 260 rear wheel HP. Any thoughts? I have my 335i due in late november........I guess the xede will solve this anyway but I'm still a little pissed/worried.

[edgarj]

After reading the posts on another board about this package being "overpriced", I too can't wait for the 1st Vishnu 335i's to show the real world gains. When I think of how much I would have to spend to get this type of gain on my S54, not to mention the nature of such mods, this seems like a true bargain.

[Ph3n0m73]

When are we going to see some 1/4 mile times, Shiv?

Horsepower and torque increases are great to look at on dyno graphs, but let's get down to the nitty-gritty.Get the thing on the track so we can know what we're going to drop $3 large on.

um..... Please.

Springer

[emos325]

shiv doesn't care to do the 1/4 mile or drag it's been posted all over the place go back and read.

[Ph3n0m73]

Originally Posted by emos325

shiv doesn't care to do the 1/4 mile or drag it's been posted all over the place go back and read.

Many of us want to see the 1/4 mile times.

Maybe you should be the one to go back and read.

A great philosopher once said...Sigh...

Originally Posted by Shiv@vishnu

Every village has one.

And BTW, those of us who have or have ordered a 335i are thinking about laying down 3 grand want to know first how the car will perform.

@Shiv ---

Could you do a Dyno with just the Exede with the stock exhaust? I know you said we can expect 310whp... but it'd also be nice to see just what the Exede could do after your final tweaks on an otherwise stock car.

Searched for an updated Dyno chart after you offered the final product for sale, but haven't been able to find one.

If I missed it, sorry in advance.

Springer

[RPM90]

Moved: combined below.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by tommithy

Umm... Ok then...


That said, I was simply trying to point out to the OP that adding a cat back exhaust system would not void the warranty on their car. It's that simple.

I would also be protected by law from them trying to do this unless they could PROVE that my engine mods and exhaust mods caused the doors to fall off.

The main thing here is that the dealer and manufacturer can, and many do, deny warranty coverage. Yes, you may have a legal solution on your side, but that requires time, effort, and even money.
"Proof", in a situation of clear modification isn't even a question. The auto manufacturer warranty spells it out pretty clearly on what happens.

The door falling off argument is simply leading the discussion away from it's intent. Modding your engine and exhaust does NOT remove the whole vehicle warranty. I never said or implied that.

As far as the topic, the question is how these engine ECU/ECM mods along with exhaust mods can affect the vehicles warranty, and specifically warranty on those systems.
These warranty questions get myth type responses where people actually believe that if they mod their engine and then there is an engine problem, it is up to the dealer/manufacture to PROVE that the customers mod caused the engine failure. That's just simply not understanding their warranty and the law.

My comments were to address the whole topic not you specifically.
I should have prefaced my comments that they were not directed at or about you in particular.

There is law and there is reality. Main point is that the MM act was NOT created to protect enthusiasts who mod for more power.
Let's not confuse the issue, and let's keep it real.
If you mod your engine and exhaust for more power you affect other subsystems in your car as well.
You want to play then you pay. That's very fair.

If your door hinges falter and you have engine and exhaust mods, of course you would expect the doors to be fixed, and the law is on your side on that one.


I was simply to hoping to clear up some misconceptions.
Nothing personal intended in the least.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by edgarj

Has anyone ever seen a case where a warranty was voided just because of a non-Dinan free-flow exhaust mod? I can't imagine how they could argue that less back-pressure harmed the engine in any way. The xede will come off when my car goes in for service, so the exhaust is the only mod that might catch their eye.

The Mits EVO and Suby WRX/STI website forums are littered with those manufacturers denying warranty for transmission problems simply by stating, "driver abuse". They have NOT been held to prove that claim in nealry all the cases. The dealers and manufacturers simply say, "no warrnaty, driver abuse." and that's it, no repair.
Yet it sucks, but it happens.

In those situations there weren't any mods in question even.
I know of people told "no engine warranty" due to simple bolt on intakes.
Sure, the owner can fight it and even legally come out winning. However, the system is such that the owner has to bring the law suit first. However, nearly everyone accepts the "no warranty" decided by the dealer as the "proof" legal process can take time, effort, and money. People have won though.
Sure, it's not fair but it's common.

I also know of suspension warranty claim denials where the owner puts on aftermarket stiffer lowering springs and then suffers faulty dampers (often leaking). That of course is a direct cause and no warranty is legit.
However, many modders swap out the aftermarket springs for the stock versions and then go in for warranty repair, and they get it.
BTW, is that fair? That type of deception actually costs all of us due to increasing vehicle costs where warranty costs are factored in.

I've not heard of an exhaust mod, alone, voiding an engine warranty.
Generally, it's very rare for a simple aftermarket exhaust to cause problems.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Ph3n0m73

When are we going to see some 1/4 mile times, Shiv?

Horsepower and torque increases are great to look at on dyno graphs, but let's get down to the nitty-gritty.Get the thing on the track so we can know what we're going to drop $3 large on.

um..... Please.

Springer

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=125

. . . but maybe if you said "pretty please".

[stressdoc]

It would not surprise me if 350+ bhp, and the attendant maniacal driving that would inspire, caused a few 'problems' downstream. If I were BMW I would be very skeptical about warranty claims on the tranny etc. for Vishnu equipped cars. But it still sounds like a lot of fun to me, especially if one could take the goods over for a nice long ED, freaking out the Porsches etc.

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by lawdude

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=125

. . . but maybe if you said "pretty please".

Suggest this to Car & Driver.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ph3n0m73

Many of us want to see the 1/4 mile times.

Maybe you should be the one to go back and read.

A great philosopher once said...Sigh...

And BTW, those of us who have or have ordered a 335i are thinking about laying down 3 grand want to know first how the car will perform.

I posted a few roll-on acceleration runs in video format. Both in single gear and multiple gear. With two passengers and a truck full of junk, running on pump gas, on a real road in normal conditions. I was under the impression that this would be more realistic and useful that a prepped drag strip run. In the realworld, we don't drive with 20psi of air pressure in our tires, on sticky VHT while slam shifting gears, do we?

@Shiv ---

Could you do a Dyno with just the Exede with the stock exhaust? I know you said we can expect 310whp... but it'd also be nice to see just what the Exede could do after your final tweaks on an otherwise stock car.

Searched for an updated Dyno chart after you offered the final product for sale, but haven't been able to find one.

If I missed it, sorry in advance.

Right now, our car has an upgraded exhaust on it. And our factory exhaust has gone through what can only be described as an autopsy (we cut it open to test the cat and look inside the mufflers). So there is no going back to stock for us. We can only assume that the car will make at least 310whp/310lb-ft with just the Xede alone. It'll most likely make more but that's where the customer gets pleasantly suprised for getting more than they expected.

Same applies to the final Dyno runs I posted (330whp, 350lb-ft) for the car with the Xede/Exhuast combo in 91oct. That's all i'm advertising since it is easily repeatable. Sure, I've been able to coax out another 20-25lb-ft of torque but that's just about underpromising and overdelivering. I can't see anyone being too dissappointed with that approach. Just as long as my numbers are off on the conservative side of things everyone should be happy.

Regards,
shiv

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Suggest this to Car & Driver.

European car, Car & Driver and Autoweek have all been sent info (and videos) of the car. I have gotten positive responses but it's still going to be somewhat of a wait.

It would not surprise me if 350+ bhp, and the attendant maniacal driving that would inspire, caused a few 'problems' downstream. If I were BMW I would be very skeptical about warranty claims on the tranny etc. for Vishnu equipped cars. But it still sounds like a lot of fun to me, especially if one could take the goods over for a nice long ED, freaking out the Porsches etc.

Before any BMW car gets released to the market, it goes through durability testing. One of those tests is 8 consecutive balls-to-the-walls laps around the Nürburgring. That is the most grueling test in the business. Porsche, by comparison, only does 2 consecutive laps. Each lap is a bit over 8 minutes with just about every combination of driving conditional imaginable. From low gear WOT acceleration to steady state WOT in top gear. Unless you plan on driving our car at 10/10ths.

To say that these cars are overbuilt in every sense of the word would be an uderstatement. And to worry about impending transmission failure in light of a modest 25% torque gain would be unwarranted. Geez.. I don't even start thinking of transmission until after we start slipping the clutch, upgrade it with a stiffer one and then approach the +50% torque level. And clutches don't even start slipping until the +35 to 40% range.

Just my 2c,
shiv

[The flying Dutchman]

Lucky we have in Europe 98-100 octane gas, then it should be able for at least 350-370 hp with no other mods than a revised ECU.

Good work guys

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Right now, our car has an upgraded exhaust on it. And our factory exhaust has gone through what can only be described as an autopsy (we cut it open to test the cat and look inside the mufflers). So there is no going back to stock for us. We can only assume that the car will make at least 310whp/310lb-ft with just the Xede alone. It'll most likely make more but that's where the customer gets pleasantly suprised for getting more than they expected.

Same applies to the final Dyno runs I posted (335whp, 350lb-ft) for the car with the Xede/Exhuast combo. That's all i'm advertising since it is easily repeatable. Sure, I've been able to coax out another 20-25lb-ft of torque but that's just about underpromising and overdelivering. I can't see anyone being too dissappointed with that approach.

Regards,
shiv

Shiv,

Nice job overall. I am quite impressed that this engine, given it's modes sized turbo's could achieve that much power boost.

Yet, I'm still curious about some things.
Initially BMW said the turbo's would be about 7psi max.
You've stated that at full throttle you were seeing 8-9psi stock.
That's quite a bit higher especially given the modest 91 oct. in Cali.
Next, you say that you've only boosted max psi to 11, or about 2-3psi max.
I understand that you've also achieved greater boost pressure at part throttle, so I'm sure that improves daily driving nicley.

The big question for me is the power gains with stock exhaust vs. your exhaust.
Will the stock exhaust xede still give the same boost pressures?
How has the power curve changed in terms of moving the power band up or down the rev band, or has it stayed the same yet with more power?
IOW, with stock exhaust how has the power band and the curve changed?
11 psi per 3 cylinders is extremely impressive given the modest size of those turbo's.

With your modded exhaust, has the power band moved up the rev band?

Also, the stock exhaust xede seems to have pretty modest performance gains. You claim a gain of 30hp/30lb ft. at the wheel.
Given a 10% typical RWD loss, as also demonstrated by the stock whp numbers, the xede will give a crank power gain of about 33hp/33lb ft. with stock exhaust. I get those numbers by 33 x .1 (10%) = 3.3,
33-3.3= 29.7 or about 30.
So, basicallythere is a 10% gain in power given 300/300 as stock crank power. The xede w/ stock exhaust should give 333/333 crank.

For such a relative modest power gain why not simply do software?
For Audi; APR, REVO, Giac have managed much greater than 10% improvements in HP and even greater in torque gains, and that's with stock exhaust. Those gains only require a software download.

I think I missed something in this long thread, but does your exhaust remove any cat-cons?
If the stock exhaust is so restrictive then how much power can be increased with just the exhaust mod with stock tuning?

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

European car, Car & Driver and Autoweek have all been sent info (and videos) of the car. I have gotten positive responses but it's still going to be somewhat of a wait.



Before any BMW car gets released to the market, it goes through durability testing. One of those tests is 8 consecutive balls-to-the-walls laps around the Nürburgring. That is the most grueling test in the business. Porsche, by comparison, only does 2 consecutive laps. Each lap is a bit over 8 minutes with just about every combination of driving conditional imaginable. From low gear WOT acceleration to steady state WOT in top gear. Unless you plan on driving our car at 10/10ths.

To say that these cars are overbuilt in every sense of the word would be an uderstatement. And to worry about impending transmission failure in light of a modest 25% torque gain would be unwarranted. Geez.. I don't even start thinking of transmission until after we start slipping the clutch, upgrade it with a stiffer one and then approach the +50% torque level. And clutches don't even start slipping until the +35 to 40% range.

Just my 2c,
shiv

Awesome. I suggest those of us on this list that are interested start sending emails to folks that we know on the staffs of these magazines to let them know that there is tremendous interest in this product. I bet there would be a great story here for Roundel as well.