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Take 3: Vishnu 335i coupe Tuning Update
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10-25-2006, 01:15 PM | #551 | |
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10-25-2006, 01:32 PM | #552 | |
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RON (research octane number) method of determining octane. In the US we use RON+MON (motor octane number)/2, that gives US fuels their octane number, or PON (pump octane number). Thus, US fuel is an average of RON and MON, and RON is the typically higher octane number given the same fuel. The RON and MON methods differ in how they are derived. RON typically shows a higher number. It is derived under low severity/low stress conditions with the variable compression ratio piston engine at about 600rpm. MON typically show a lower number. It is derived under higher speed and/or higher load with the piston engine at about 900rpm. That's why US fuels show lower octane numbers. However, make no mistake, US fuel is the equivalent in high quality to fuels around the world. The biggest drawback has been US fuels high/er sulfur content. That's already been addressed and many US fuels (gasoline and diesel) have had much lowered sulfur content. By next year US fuels should be near 0ppm sulfur comparable to most Euro fuels. It's not exact but some RON to PON octane number equivalents are: RON-90/91 PON-87 RON-95 PON-91 RON-98 PON-94 Typical US PON 93 is about 97-98 RON in Euro and Japanese equivalent. |
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10-25-2006, 01:40 PM | #553 | |||||||||
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Regards, shiv |
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10-25-2006, 02:21 PM | #554 | |
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There are dyno's out there. Stock exhaust: Boost instability, really? Boost creep? This is interesting. You say: "No, we run slightly less boost with the factory exhaust. It all comes down to keeping backpressure at a reasonably level. Especially on the 91oct we get here. In areas that get higher octane, I'm sure we can run a higher boost without problem." There isn't much you can do to control the backpressure in the stock exhaust. So, part of the lower power increase with stock exhaust is due to lower boost increase. What happened when you ran the same boost increase of your custom exhaust with the stock exhaust? Also, will you offer the xede with stock exhaust at higher boost levels for customers that do have access to 93 octane fuel? |
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10-25-2006, 02:51 PM | #555 | |
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And my comment regarding the audi flashes were a little tongue-in-cheek A little backstory: I became the most hated man on the Audi forums because several years ago, I wrote a technical story for European car magazine about chip testing. http://members.iinet.net.au/~b5turbo/project%20audi%20(part%202).pdf#search='shiv%20eur opean%20car%20project%20a4' I compared a bunch of different brands on the dyno, on the drag strip, on the road, etc,. I even conducted turbo efficiency/charge temp comparisons in order to properly quantify what they were done. And what they did wasn't good. Then, years later, the hatred was nurtured after we posted the dyno results of one of our tech guy's (Dustin@Vishnu) personal bi-turbo S4. The results, once again, weren't good. Now I'm not saying that all tuned Audis I've tested were dissappointing. Just most of them. In general, they are running the turbos into choke with intake charge temps well beyond reasonable. They make good power on race gas since you are eliminating the biggest constraint in the system. But on pump gas, I've always found them to lack. Especially compared to the WRXs and EVOs that we are used to seeing. Needless to say, our tech guy sold his S4 and got an Evo. Although he doesn't miss an opportunity to take our 335i out for a spin. Cheers, shiv |
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10-25-2006, 03:18 PM | #556 | |
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I'm too excited.:rocks: Springer |
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10-25-2006, 04:37 PM | #558 | |
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We should get classroom credit for this stuff
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Apart from the obvious Shiv, who as we all know does a wonderful job informing everyone about this product, I think it's just great that we also have others who challenge him to do more, to explain more and to justify more. In the end, we're all much better off for it - Shiv does his homework, we get our answers and get happy, Shiv gets his checks. Everyone s Now if only our (nation's) democracy worked that way too . . . |
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10-25-2006, 04:38 PM | #559 | |
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10-25-2006, 07:46 PM | #560 |
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I am very very impressed with this product and plan on buying it when I eventually get a 335. I have one question for shiv, are you having any difficulty getting this power to the groud with the stock tires? I would think that a car pushing that much power would let the rear tires break loose. The e46 M3 looses the rear tires pretty easily when it is making big power, just wondering if it is the same case. Thanks
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10-25-2006, 08:08 PM | #561 |
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Shiv (or anyone else), could you please point me towards the latest dyno tests. #2 - Is there one that shows the (awesome) 370lb ft at the rear wheels of torque! Whoooo - that is allot of grunt!!!!
[QUOTE=shiv@vishnu]Quick update: During the last week or so, we've been working on a dynamic timing feature that induces an additional 0.3 second timing retard under sudden load conditions. This keeps that 1psi overboost during sudden WOT conditions from inducing knock. This transient retard means that we dont have to apply a large static retard timing under boost. Which means that the car makes even more torque than before (that is how we got up to 370lb ft at the wheels). Peak power is still capped at 330-335 due to limitations in octane and the induction/turbo system. |
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10-25-2006, 09:32 PM | #562 | |||
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10-25-2006, 11:28 PM | #563 |
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Ahhh..indiana...what are you good for??
...93 octane. That. is. all.
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10-26-2006, 12:14 AM | #564 | |
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10-26-2006, 01:00 AM | #566 |
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Thanks for the vote of confidence but i think those guys can get along just fine without us. We're not exactly swiming in any untested waters here. There is a lot more that goes on in the R&D stages at the factory that we could ever hope to reproduce in the aftermarket. It just doesn't leak out to the public. You should see the kind of nifty "engineering excercises" some of my friends (who work at PVO, Mazda and Mitsubishi) get to conduct. I get awfully jealous.
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10-26-2006, 09:26 AM | #567 | |
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10-26-2006, 04:38 PM | #568 | |
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10-26-2006, 07:32 PM | #569 |
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Link to "controversial engine break-in method"
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm Not looking to hijack the thread, but since Shiv knows the in's and out's of this ecu, and after following this for a few weeks, strangely I've come to trust him. (It helps to see him answer every intelligent question/accusation/concern, other posters have thrown at him) I should be getting my 335 coupe in the next few weeks and wanted to do it right. Also, I know you just started installs for Cali, but if you could give a rough estimate on out of state shipment (2-4 weeks, 1-2 months, etc.) I'd really appreciate it. |
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10-26-2006, 08:20 PM | #570 | |
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10-27-2006, 02:23 AM | #571 |
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0 - 100 in Shiv's 335i
I had my Subaru Legacy Reflashed by Vishnu today. Luckily for me Shiv was my tuner, and showed up in the 335i that has been discussed so much in this thread. What a guy - he let me take it out for a spin while he added some HP to my Subi! I ran two 0-100 tests with my Treo recording the whole thing. I can't figure out how to get the video OFF my treo and onto this board, so I took a stop watch to it later. Even with a crappy lauch and pretty slow shifting I got a 4.5 0-60 and a 10 second run to 100!!!!
The most notable part of that car is the torque. At 10% throttle it is just like a N/A 330i. Get on it more and hold onto your neck! The turbos kick in like a locamotive and PUUULLLLLL!!! It pulls like a mother even at 1800 RPM in 6th gear. As a matter of fact, it makes so much power everywhere that you can just leave it in 4th and drive past everyone from 40 MPH to 140 (not that I went that fast). Ridiculous amounts of torque (well over 400 lbs at the crank). I am used to a supercharged S2000 where the car doesn't start to make power until 6K and doesn't peak until 9K. BTW, this 335i will walk right past my S/C S2K! It is REALLY hard to go slow in a car that makes power so effortlessly. The exhaust is throaty at low RPM, and a bit more subdued (but still very much present) above 3K. My request for the production version would be a bit quieter at low RPMs and a bit louder at high (if you can engineer that one, Shiv). The main downside in the whole thing was that when I got back in my newly reflashed Legacy GT it felt SLOW! A 390 HP 335i will make anything (except maybe an M5) seem slow, though. Once I had some time alone on with the Subi I forgave it for its inadequacies, and did notice a noticable HP addition and a ton more midrange torque, but I will save that story for the Subi forum. A quick note about Shiv: any guy who will hand the keys to his newly tuned $50K Bimmer to go romp around, raising hell in the streets of Danville, is already cool. On top of that, he was incredibly helpful with the subi, and super knowledgable. Thanks so much, Shiv! And don't forget the mods for the sedan 335i!!!! |
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10-27-2006, 03:32 AM | #572 | |
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Oooo i cant wait to see that video from your treo. By the way how accurate can using a stop watch be? Not questioning how fast the 335i is, but theres a huge margin of error doing that. |
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