[Murf the Surf]

And here is the rub, TV & movies etc drive the Monday morning quarter backs. There are procedures that have been developed over decades, the Columbine shooting changed the way police respond. The fact remains that there are still procedures that are in place, and human nature. It's easy to say if "I was there with my CCW, I would've ended it"....when you are dealing with a person armed with a long gun and who is goal oriented you will lose with a small calibre side arm more than 50% of the time. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not the time to point fingers, lay blame or criticize the actions of those who responded.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

And here is the rub, TV & movies etc drive the Monday morning quarter backs. There are procedures that have been developed over decades, the Columbine shooting changed the way police respond. The fact remains that there are still procedures that are in place, and human nature. It's easy to say if "I was there with my CCW, I would've ended it"....when you are dealing with a person armed with a long gun and who is goal oriented you will lose with a small calibre side arm more than 50% of the time. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not the time to point fingers, lay blame or criticize the actions of those who responded.

Well said brother.

[Jklotz]

Such a tragedy. Really breaks my heart. I wasn't there, but I can't imagine any cop that was there that wouldn't have done anything possible to save those lives.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Jklotz

Such a tragedy. Really breaks my heart. I wasn't there, but I can't imagine any cop that was there that wouldn't have done anything possible to save those lives.

A cop will die trying to save someone. It's just how we're built. It saddens me that the climate we are in is causing officers to second guess what is in their nature because they fear going to prison and/or losing their livelihood for acting in good faith and trying to do the right thing. I would be lying if I said I haven't been there myself. It's a shitty feeling……..extremely shitty when you find yourself saying, "If I just take a few extra minutes to arrive on scene, maybe the perpetrator will be gone, I won't get into a shooting and I'll last another day without being terminated or worse." Unfortunately that is the real internal dialogue taking place in officers' heads when they are dispatched priority or emergent calls where a use of force could occur. The protector in me wants to get the bad guy and save the victimized, but the preservationist in me is relieved when the bad guy is gone before I arrive on scene.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

A cop will die trying to save someone. It's just how we're built. It saddens me that the climate we are in is causing officers to second guess what is in their nature because they fear going to prison and/or losing their livelihood for acting in good faith and trying to do the right thing. I would be lying if I said I haven't been there myself. It's a shitty feeling……..extremely shitty when you find yourself saying, "If I just take an extra few minutes to arrive on scene, maybe the perpetrator will be gone, I won't get into a shooting and I'll last another day without being terminated or worse." Unfortunately that is the real internal dialogue taking place in officers' heads when they are dispatched priority or emergent calls where a use of force could occur.

The reality is, spin the block or slow down are real things. I remember we'd chase dealers all the time, and then they started to do ambushes on the officers chasing them.....I have to ask myself why am I running after a guy for dealing some rock cocaine, he will likely get time served after his bail hearing but I might get shot running around a corner in the projects after him......given the lack of support from the media, public and government/department I just don't see the percentage in it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The reality is, spin the block or slow down are real things. I remember we'd chase dealers all the time, and then they started to do ambushes on the officers chasing them.....I have to ask myself why am I running after a guy for dealing some rock cocaine, he will likely get time served after his bail hearing but I might get shot running around a corner in the projects after him......given the lack of support from the media, public and government/department I just don't see the percentage in it.

That's where I'm at honestly. It's a risk assessment every call. At this point if it's not a baby in medical distress or a partner in a fight for his life, I drive the speed limit and take my time (…within reason).

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's where I'm at honestly. It's a risk assessment every call. At this point if it's not a baby in medical distress or a partner in a fight for his life, I drive the speed limit and take my time (…within reason).

I don't know if you've heard these acronyms but they've been around since before I came on the job.

FIDO : Fuck It, Drive Off

WANGO : We Are Not Getting Out

DILLIGAF: Do I Look Like I Give A Fuck

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I don't know if you've heard these acronyms but they've been around since before I came on the job.

FIDO : Fuck It, Drive Off

WANGO : We Are Not Getting Out

DILLIGAF: Do I Look Like I Give A Fuck

I've never heard those, but now they are stored in my mental file box.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've never heard those, but now they are stored in my mental file box.

Feel free to use them brother. I can still hear the conversation in the Scout Car.....Stand by for the hot shot, sound of Gun Shots.....one of us would say DILLIGAF or FIDO.....

FIDO actually made it to the media.

Always would respond to kids, elders etc but the sad reality was there was no support if you stuck your neck out so some calls got less priority than they probably deserved.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Just to set the record here, I FULLY support and stand behind our law enforcement agencies.
In no way were my posts meant to take a stand one way or another as I stated - I was just providing information as I was digesting it on the subject of "if this had happened in a carry state and if there was an armed resource officer or teacher in Uvalde, both of those heartbreaking shootings would have been brought to an end before so many were killed" topic.

I absolutely know it's not as easy as just charging into a situation to confront a heavily armed maniac(s). Hope no one took any of my comments out of context here.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

Just to set the record here, I FULLY support and stand behind our law enforcement agencies.
In no way were my posts meant to take a stand one way or another as I stated - I was just providing information as I was digesting it on the subject of "if this had happened in a carry state and if there was an armed resource officer or teacher in Uvalde, both of those heartbreaking shootings would have been brought to an end before so many were killed" topic.

I absolutely know it's not as easy as just charging into a situation to confront a heavily armed maniac(s). Hope no one took any of my comments out of context here.

No offence taken by me. I have seen a lot of stuff on social media that seems to criticize the officers on scene for not immediately rushing in. My comments were to simply shine a light on some of the dynamics at play.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

No offence taken by me. I have seen a lot of stuff on social media that seems to criticize the officers on scene for not immediately rushing in. My comments were to simply shine a light on some of the dynamics at play.

Same here. No offense taken and this is a thread intended to provide perspective.

[UncleWede]

Seems you officers also got similar training to when I went thru the water safety/lifeguard training: Don't become ANOTHER victim.

Generally, if the potential shooter knows this is not a soft target, that there is an armed resource officer at the school entrance, he is going to reconsider his plan to attack a school.

But what is really sad is that this kid got no help other than suicide by cop, after dishing out a shitload of pain himself. The fact he tried to whack gma makes me think he had no nuclear family. Who knows (maybe we will soon) what tragedy lead him to be living with gma.

And smart gun laws: he LEGALLY bought the guns, because nobody spoke up that he was in a mental state that was conducive to violence.

But lets stop the manufacture of guns, that will fix it

[Sedan_Clan]

I mean…..


….these statements aren't wrong. Virtue signaling will make your head spin.

[M5Rick]

19 gone so the chain of public thought is that officers were slow but they must realise the killer can't be neutralised in a flash.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

19 gone so the chain of public thought is that officers were slow but they must realise the killer can't be neutralised in a flash.

Interestingly, albeit not surprisingly (…as more information is acquired), most of the killing happened in the 15 minutes prior to law enforcement arriving on scene. Because he was barricaded, crisis negotiations took place and lasted for nearly an hour (…using a CNT is standard procedure). During that time only a few gunshots were heard and the suspect was later killed.

The media is framing it as though everybody was killed with police on scene and that was not the case.

[M5Rick]

^ Familiar story that Ramos was a loner probably shunned by other students bc he was 'different' and took his action as a kind of revenge when in his mind things came to a head.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

^ Familiar story that Ramos was a loner probably shunned by other students bc he was 'different' and took his action as a kind of revenge when in his mind things came to a head.

I don't doubt he was mentally unstable. His behavior and life decisions frame that accordingly.

[Sedan_Clan]

Multiple officers had children in the building. One of the officers lost their child in this tragedy, so to think for one minute they didn't do everything possible to end this situation rapidly is just absurd to me. That isn't directed at anybody in this thread, but just the armchair quarterbacks who are echoing the divisive narratives.

[Sedan_Clan]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CeCxlcA...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Cooler head prevailing…..

[Jklotz]

I have a friend who has been to Uvalde for work. He said it's a tiny little town, or "a dot on a map" as he put it. The local force wasn't LAPD with swat teams and tanks. The closest city was San Antonio, and it was an hour and 20 minutes away. Surely that had something to do with the delay.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Jklotz

I have a friend who has been to Uvalde for work. He said it's a tiny little town, or "a dot on a map" as he put it. The local force wasn't LAPD with swat teams and tanks. The closest city was San Antonio, and it was an hour and 20 minutes away. Surely that had something to do with the delay.

Indeed it did. They had to rally resources from other areas within the state.