[carve]

I was getting long cranks on my CPO '07, so it's in the shop right now. 40k miles on the original pump (although this still might be the injectors instead).

So, strangely, it seems some cars have little or no problem with pumps, while others go through them like wiper blades.

Has anyone found the CAUSE of this problem yet? Could it be a bent mounting bracket? Weak LPFP? Clogged fuel line? Bad gas? The way the car is driven?

What exactly is failing in these pumps, and what could cause this to happen? If it's metal wear, will the particles lead to injector failure?

[VeritasTruthEmet]

Originally Posted by red335ic

Yesterday, I opened three NHSTA cases for the three HPFPs that have failed on my 2007 335i CPO vehicle. The first two HPFP failures were during the time when the previous driver had the car. It failed the 3rd time the very next day after I took delivery of the car as a 2007 335i CPO vehicle with 44k miles on it June 2010. Funny how the salesman told me nothing was done to the car except normal maintenance (i.e. oil changes, brakes, tires). Next time I buy a CPO BMW car, I'll demand the warranty history on it. When I had the 3rd HPFP installed, the SA provided me with the history of the warranty work for the other HPFP that was replace under the previous lessee ownership. This was provided to me AFTER I had already purchased the car. The used car sales department would not buy the car back no matter how hard I tried. I have since written to BMW NA.

HISTORY: According to the warranty paperwork, the first HPFP failed the first time on September 2008 at 22,000 miles. The service record indicated long cranks, then total loss of power driving the car! The 2nd time the HPFP was replaced was in January 2010 (this year) at 36,000 miles with a loss of power and long cranks. Then, it failed the 3rd time (the day after I bought the car as a CPO) two months ago in June 2010 at 44,000 miles. Same thing happened: long cranks, preceded by loss of power. VERY DANGEROUS WHILE DRIVING! However, the third time, the HPFP was replaced with the 933 model. So far it has not given me any issues. I've only put 3,000 miles on it since I bought it in June. So, we'll see if it lasts. I did notice a few times that I've recently experienced a few long cranks. I will see if it happens more and more, as it has been intermittent.

Back to the cases... Today, just one day after I opened the cases, an NHSTA transportation investigator sent me an email asking for supporting documentation on the HPFP failures in my car. I scanned all my receipts and sent them to him. He said they were following up with their investigation and will get back to me in the near future. I then sent the email to BMW NA Consumer Affairs. Maybe they'll make things right and replace my car with a non-lemon.

What is the best way to reach BMW NA by mail? I want to demand a formal apology, a replacement car, damages and a public statement addressing the road hazard they are responsible for. When they refuse, the I will alert the media. I am already suing my dealership.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by VeritasTruthEmet

What is the best way to reach BMW NA by mail? I want to demand a formal apology, a replacement car, damages and a public statement addressing the road hazard they are responsible for. When they refuse, the I will alert the media. I am already suing my dealership.

GL w/ your tirade. Suing your dealer won't get you anywhere as they follow the protocol set by BMW. The media's already alert http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/au...ompa/19560998/

[VeritasTruthEmet]

Originally Posted by BTM

GL w/ your tirade. Suing your dealer won't get you anywhere as they follow the protocol set by BMW. The media's already alert http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/au...ompa/19560998/

I am in Canada where it is a serious breach of criminal law to endanger the public either through negligence or premeditated fraud. Whereas this is a known issue, whereas they have lied about its severity, whereas they have acted to consciously conceal the dangers involved and whereas as the public have been placed at risk of death and grievous bodily harm as a result of their actions, BMW is criminally liable and will certainly be sanctioned by the Crown. My civil suit is designed to call attention to the problem and thereby alert the Crown so that they will prosecute those involved.

I am not in this for pecuniary gain and this is not a rant. I demand that criminal sanctions be imposed against anyone who knowingly endangered myself, my family and the public at large. In Canada the Crown must bring charges forward. It is my intent to expedite the process so that they may be convicted and the problem addressed before people begin to die.

Much like Toyota, BMW will need to face serious criminal convictions before they act with any decency. Any Canadians who have had their BMWs endanger their lives or cause damage to property should PM me. If we have sufficient numbers, I will fund and facilitate a motion for a class-action.

[BTM]

RTT lol, says the guy joined Jul 10 with 9 posts. I've pretty much read this entire thread...much of what you've said has been posted before. The point is this is nothing new and similar comments/threats have been made, similar outrages have been exhibited, and no one has gotten anywhere and pumps are still failing. I have yet to hear of a 933 failure, but they are a very new part, so let's hope something got done and they actually work.

While I hope your actions accomplish something, I would be sincerely surprised if they do anything beyond using up your time and money. There are class action law suits, there are people writing things to BMW "demanding" things, there are even entire websites devoted to problems people have experienced with their BMWs, the media has picked up on it.

[VeritasTruthEmet]

Originally Posted by BTM

RTT lol, I've pretty much read this entire thread...much of what you've said has been posted before. The point is this is nothing new and similar comments/threats have been made, similar outrages have been exhibited, and no one has gotten anywhere and pumps are still failing. I have yet to hear of a 933 failure, but they are a very new part, so let's hope something got done and they actually work.

While I hope your actions accomplish something, I would be sincerely surprised if they do anything beyond using up your time and money. There are class action law suits, there are people writing things to BMW "demanding" things, there are even entire websites devoted to problems people have experienced with their BMWs, the media has picked up on it.

I have yet to hear of this problem through local media. The actions of BMW are so outrageous that they have moved me to devote as much time and money as is necessary to this cause. I can out spend them and I will not take a settlement. When you endanger so many people, eventually you are bound to find one with time, money and resources sufficient to bring justice about. If I am the first to succeed in holding them so account, so be it. I will certainly prevail in this matter.

No one endangers the lives of my family and community for financial gain and gets away with it. I consider this a public service. It is unacceptable to have such vehicles on the road and those individuals who are complicit in the matter should not be permitted to walk the streets as free men. I hate BMW for their callous disregard for human life. They will be held to account. No settlement other than jail terms will suffice.

[BTM]

Ok whatever dude, sorry your HPFP went out on you and you weren't aware of the problem, glad you joined the forum, albeit a little too late at this point. Good luck throwing BMW in jail.

[speed12sil]

Originally Posted by BTM

Ok whatever dude, sorry your HPFP went out on you and you weren't aware of the problem, glad you joined the forum, albeit a little too late at this point. Good luck throwing BMW in jail.

He is in Canada and I don't know the Canadian laws that pertains to this kind of problem well enough to call him out as blowing hot air.

I wonder what the statuses of the various class-action lawsuits in the States are right now though.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by speed12sil

He is in Canada and I don't know the Canadian laws that pertains to this kind of problem well enough to call him out as blowing hot air.

I don't either, but he I'd be surprised if he won't be in the "really angry/frustrated member who only found this forum because they had a problem and will continue to rack up 10 posts and start 5 threads a year with every problem they have, no matter how mundane, about how bs it is to be paying this much for a car and for a window regulator to go out under warranty"

If he's not just blowing off steam I hope his tirade gets him somewhere, however making demands and using irrelevant parties isn't the prudent way to do so IMO. It's not like his is the first HPFP to go out in Canada, they're getting the same treatment as we are no? (With the 120k warranty?)

I wonder what the statuses of the various class-action lawsuits in the States are right now though.

Do you know when they were opened? While an effective media tool, or an easy way to say "look at how much bad this person/company has done" in my experience class action lawsuits take forever and end up doing little to mitigate the problem for the actual "victims."

For example, there was a class action lawsuit over the battery life for the first generation Ipod, so when I got the paperwork in the mail I filled it out and eventually forgot about. Years later, when the Ipod was a few generations removed from the first (can't remember exactly), I randomly got a huge-ass, low memory, irrelevant first generation Ipod in the mail with a supposedly better battery as the outcome of that lawsuit. I would've much rather gotten even just like $100 or something. Much more useful than the unused obsolete ipod I have laying around somewhere.

[Oulixes]

The high pressure pump problem has stayed unresolved for years because methods used to force its solution have been likely wrong and the consequences of the problem has not been strong enough. Veritas TruthEmet is on the right track mentioning Toyota. In their case the fatalities and the voicing of the perceived problems on well-chosen forums attracted enough attention to bring the company to their senses. Let's hope the pump problem will be solved before someone dies in the car due to the fuel delivery failure.

[Bimmer335i]

So to continue with updates, here's what McHenry, the NHTSA investigator, responded to my questions with regard to the re-opening of the investigation into the pump failures;

Thank you for the information. The investigation was closed however we continue to monitor the number of complaints that come in and request more information if we think we see trends developing or increasing.

Stephen

I presume that those of you guys who rec'd his request for add'l info probably get the same speel as above!?

[jaxxx]

He said it was closed before cause BMW said it was fixed ....

[BTM]

Originally Posted by Bimmer335i

So to continue with updates, here's what McHenry, the NHTSA investigator, responded to my questions with regard to the re-opening of the investigation into the pump failures;

Thank you for the information. The investigation was closed however we continue to monitor the number of complaints that come in and request more information if we think we see trends developing or increasing.

Stephen

I presume that those of you guys who rec'd his request for add'l info probably get the same speel as above!?

So basically, if your pump fails, open a case and if enough cases get opened another investigation will take place.

[smc]

@V T E

I'm guessing you are a just-out-of, or perhaps still in law school and are looking to make a name for yourself.

Grow up, do some research, and realize you don't have a case. Although BMW has not fixed the problem, they have put quite reasonable resources/expenses on the problem. Do you really think they would replace everyone's pump (at a cost of several hundreds charged by the dealer) and do all the reprogramming (at a cost of several hundreds of dollars each time) not to mention all the other warranty work being done pretty much without question. I believe that you will find that BMW is one of the most accommodating car manufacturers on the planet when it comes to warranty work and recalls. Try owning an american vehicle. Good luck getting one of the Japanese manufacturers to give you a loaner while they replace your injectors for free because you felt the car surge and they couldn't replicate it after charging you a $120 diagnostic fee.

Yes the HPFP is a pain in the ... and could be dangerous if power to the engine is cut when you are on the highway in the *PASSING* lane going faster than the speed limit.

**However**

I have had the fuel pump quit on 2 different vehicles from 2 different manufacturers - it's not that uncommon and it's just as dangerous (or more so) in other cars. In both of my situations, the engine shut off due to lack of fuel. Neither manufacturer had extended warranties on the pumps, and I paid for the repairs and the tow.

SMC

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by smc

Grow up, do some research, and realize you don't have a case. Although BMW has not fixed the problem, they have put quite reasonable resources/expenses on the problem. Do you really think they would replace everyone's pump (at a cost of several hundreds charged by the dealer) and do all the reprogramming (at a cost of several hundreds of dollars each time) not to mention all the other warranty work being done pretty much without question. I believe that you will find that BMW is one of the most accommodating car manufacturers on the planet when it comes to warranty work and recalls. Try owning an american vehicle. Good luck getting one of the Japanese manufacturers to give you a loaner while they replace your injectors for free because you felt the car surge and they couldn't replicate it after charging you a $120 diagnostic fee.

SMC

One of the most accommodating car manufacturers?? Bunch of BS. The dealers around here don't even guarantee loaner cars. So you're saying we should be happy these pumps are failing and we get the privilege of getting them fixed for free.

[BTM]

The loaner issue is on the dealer itself. I personally will do all I can to not go to a dealer that won't offer me a loaner...if you're having problems getting loaners try another dealer.

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by alex2364

One of the most accommodating car manufacturers?? ... So you're saying we should be happy these pumps are failing and we get the privilege of getting them fixed for free.

Good point - no car company will fix anything for free. BMW strategy is to factor cost of the "free" fixes into the cost of the car. It is a good approach, since the cars sold are not very reliable. It keeps most BMW car owners reasonably happy and willing to work as beta testers for BMW products.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by Oulixes

Good point - no car company will fix anything for free. BMW strategy is to factor cost of the "free" fixes into the cost of the car. It is a good approach, since the cars sold are not very reliable. It keeps most BMW car owners reasonably happy and willing to work as beta testers for BMW products.

Are you insinuating that BMW, knowing about the HPFP issue before production, rather than attempting to fix the issue, merely raised the price to cover costs of replacement? That they had the 120k/10yr warranty already factored into the prices of 07s, before it was ever issued? I guess there's a possibility, but that seems to be a conspiracy theorist approach rather than a practical one.

There are a small percentage of HPFPs that fail - not enough to trigger a recall. BMW realized this is a possibility on all 881 pumps so, if a pump fails, decided to replace with an updated 943 part, which was also shown to possibly fail. So they recently released another updated 933 part. The majority of 335s on the road are still with their 881 pumps - if pumps were actually failing every 10 minutes as many on this forum will have you to believe then there would be more pressure from the appropriate authorities applied to BMW to expedite a fix.

I've spoken to enthusiasts running tunes that have put over 60k on their original 881 pumps - well past the 50k warranty mark. I understand it's frustrating for those who have experienced failures (my turn is coming soon) but let's try and keep our heads here. Just because you have a 335, your pump is not guaranteed to fail prematurely. Every component has a life expectancy, and in our cases it's something that needs to be monitored. In most cases, only inattention would lead to an all out failure. Even without knowledge of HPFP, if your car is taking 3-5sec to start and sputtering upon ignition, you wouldn't be a little weary and perhaps see if you have a problem? Especially when it's a reoccurring thing?

FWIW it's worth I DO think it's unacceptable the BMW hasn't yet designed a reliable pump (the 933 we will have to wait and see), at the same time I DO NOT think they would take the risk of bad publicity and losing customers to seriously be giving us the runaround. I'm keeping a level perspective. Here's to hoping the 933 does it.

[gcha79]

Originally Posted by VeritasTruthEmet

I have yet to hear of this problem through local media. The actions of BMW are so outrageous that they have moved me to devote as much time and money as is necessary to this cause. I can out spend them and I will not take a settlement. When you endanger so many people, eventually you are bound to find one with time, money and resources sufficient to bring justice about. If I am the first to succeed in holding them so account, so be it. I will certainly prevail in this matter.

No one endangers the lives of my family and community for financial gain and gets away with it. I consider this a public service. It is unacceptable to have such vehicles on the road and those individuals who are complicit in the matter should not be permitted to walk the streets as free men. I hate BMW for their callous disregard for human life. They will be held to account. No settlement other than jail terms will suffice.

Veritas, good luck with your lawsuit. I understand that you are upset with your experience with BMW. I also had issues with the company; my car lost power on the freeway and engine completely shut off when I was going uphill. BMW Customer service also had the audacity of telling me that they were unaware of any if this was a common issue with other 335i owners and BMW also demanded that I buy new tires for the lemon buyback.

I do not know Canadian law, but unless it is radically different from the law system in the United States you are looking at years and years of litigation. Companies with dedicated legal departments will use the courts to their advantage. (i.e. delay motions and proceedings for as long as possible.) Even if these companies know they will loose in court, they will use every available opportunity to delay action because they know the people suing them probably do not have the luxury of unlimited funds dedicated to legal proceedings. Also looking for an outcome of jail time for BMW executives is somewhat ambitious. Good luck with your endeavor and I wish you luck.

[ALLLRIGHTYTHEN]

Originally Posted by red335ic

Yesterday, I opened three NHSTA cases for the three HPFPs that have failed on my 2007 335i CPO vehicle. The first two HPFP failures were during the time when the previous driver had the car. It failed the 3rd time the very next day after I took delivery of the car as a 2007 335i CPO vehicle with 44k miles on it June 2010. Funny how the salesman told me nothing was done to the car except normal maintenance (i.e. oil changes, brakes, tires). Next time I buy a CPO BMW car, I'll demand the warranty history on it. When I had the 3rd HPFP installed, the SA provided me with the history of the warranty work for the other HPFP that was replace under the previous lessee ownership. This was provided to me AFTER I had already purchased the car. The used car sales department would not buy the car back no matter how hard I tried. I have since written to BMW NA.

HISTORY: According to the warranty paperwork, the first HPFP failed the first time on September 2008 at 22,000 miles. The service record indicated long cranks, then total loss of power driving the car! The 2nd time the HPFP was replaced was in January 2010 (this year) at 36,000 miles with a loss of power and long cranks. Then, it failed the 3rd time (the day after I bought the car as a CPO) two months ago in June 2010 at 44,000 miles. Same thing happened: long cranks, preceded by loss of power. VERY DANGEROUS WHILE DRIVING! However, the third time, the HPFP was replaced with the 933 model. So far it has not given me any issues. I've only put 3,000 miles on it since I bought it in June. So, we'll see if it lasts. I did notice a few times that I've recently experienced a few long cranks. I will see if it happens more and more, as it has been intermittent.

Back to the cases... Today, just one day after I opened the cases, an NHSTA transportation investigator sent me an email asking for supporting documentation on the HPFP failures in my car. I scanned all my receipts and sent them to him. He said they were following up with their investigation and will get back to me in the near future. I then sent the email to BMW NA Consumer Affairs. Maybe they'll make things right and replace my car with a non-lemon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UPDATE: Yesterday, a BMW Customer Service rep replied to my initial email indicating that they received my email complaint and would look into things. I did not reply to their email since I knew it was just a reply to my original email and was from their lower level customer service center representatives.

Today, I received two phone calls from the executive offices of the BMW NA Wykoff, NJ headquarters. When I sent my original email to customer service, I also sent it to their BMW NA consumer affairs office.

The representative from Wykoff, NJ (her name is "Shelia") called me and very calmly asked me what I would like for them to do to fix the situation. At first I told them that I would prefer the government to investigate the issue further, but then felt that I should at least let BMW try to rectify my concerns as well. Sheila then proceeded to state potential buy-back options to me, or other options that would satisfy me as the customer. She proceeded to tell me that the HPFP issues have precipitated them to work out deals with owners experiencing multiple HPFP problems with their cars. She also indicated to me that my car should never have been sold to me as a CPO since it had gone through several HPFP replacements already.

I responded to Shelia that I may accept a buy back, but if I did accept that, I wanted all my money back - including the trade monies I took as a loss to get into this car. I then told her that I would really prefer a 335i swap into another 335i that has had no HPFP problems, as I really like the car. Sheila proceeded to tell me how they normally recommend a customer not get back into the same model car if they were going to do a swap due to the problems they previously experienced. I told her again that I love my 3 series twin turbo and nothing less would suffice. So, I then said if you're really gonna make things right, do an even swap and put me in a 550 or an M3, as these two choices would be my only acceptable swap. She said those options are on the table and would get back to me early next week.

I am holding my breath, which may end up being forever. I'll update ya'll when I know something.

[BTM]

^^ Good to hear!

[mem_cg]

Need some help regarding my current car. First of all i used to drive an 09 335i which i loved, after a month of ownership i had hpfp fail and many other things changed. After a year i went through three hpfp and many other things that had to be changed, i did a buyback. As stated by other members i love the 335i decided to get another but this time instead of leasing i bought an 07 335i (CPO.) After owning the car for about 45 days the car has been at the dealer three times (Engine Malfunction, reduced power....all times were due to this,) First time they did not have the vanos in stock, they clear the codes and changed some other things. SEcond time, the spark plugs, Vano's seals and other things had to be replaced. Now this time.....currently waiting to pick up the car and see what exactly seems to be happening. Forgot to add they had to replace many parts that should have been replaced before i bought the car. I truly love the car, but within 45 days of owning the car, its already been at the dealer three times, not for minor things. What can i do? What are my options? Please advice.
Forgot to mention that the roof of the car has the metallic paint and the body is jet black.