[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I see what you're saying but remember the guy who runs 12.4@118 will beat you on the streets / hwy and will ultimately have the faster car. He is only limited by traction; you are limited by power... One thing is much easier to fix than the other.



+1, and on the streets where people don't race from launches which ultimately are stupid and may result in broken diffs / shafts / axles.

Thats true. Even the AWD folks around here wont go from a dig. They are afraid of breaking something or messing up.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by boostd92

... Well.. I don't go actively looking for races on the highway because typically you end up doing 50+mph over the speed limit at the end and a lawyer would have a hard time getting you out of that one if you're caught.

Now if I'm driving casually and someone pulls up to me at a red light, I'd be much more inclined to take them on as I can shut it down well before I'm at the throw-you-in-jail-without-asking-quesionts mph range.

But I come by that naturally.... my first tuned car was 91 AWD Talon TSi. In the late 90's I had it setup for quickest acceleration - No balance shafts, LTFW, ACT 2600 clutch, 2-step and sticky 235's at all four corners. The car pulled 1.59 sixties on summer tires and went 12.7@105mph. I never lost a stoplight race (aside from missed shifts, etc), but the car would get murdered on the highway

Racing on the streets in the first place is quite dumb but think about rolling around at 20 and gunning it say to 70 which would not only be safer for your car but much more realistic of your daily driving which may imitate something as entering a highway. I think even people that like to test the performance of the car by themselves aren't actively going to be running 1/4's anywhere other than a track but instead doing say 30-80/90 sprints. All I am saying is that the 1/4 mile ET is a great indication of track performance but it ends there and the trap speed should be the main focus for anyone trying to translate that performance to the sreets.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Thats true. Even the AWD folks around here wont go from a dig. They are afraid of breaking something or messing up.

hey not all of us AWD guys are scared of breaking something. Later tonight I'm going to use my new vbox for the first time... aiming for some LOW 3 second 0-60's. Pretty sure I can do under 3 seconds once i get PWM meth

[themyst]

Originally Posted by boostd92

... Well.. I don't go actively looking for races on the highway because typically you end up doing 50+mph over the speed limit at the end and a lawyer would have a hard time getting you out of that one if you're caught.

Now if I'm driving casually and someone pulls up to me at a red light, I'd be much more inclined to take them on as I can shut it down well before I'm at the throw-you-in-jail-without-asking-quesionts mph range.

But I come by that naturally.... my first tuned car was 91 AWD Talon TSi. In the late 90's I had it setup for quickest acceleration - No balance shafts, LTFW, ACT 2600 clutch, 2-step and sticky 235's at all four corners. The car pulled 1.59 sixties on summer tires and went 12.7@105mph. I never lost a stoplight race (aside from missed shifts, etc), but the car would get murdered on the highway

Around these parts, in Mexico, highway roll races are organized. Rarely do we go randomly racing someone on the highway. No one gives me action anyway, my car looks too sleeper.

[Vigorous]

What kind of mpg's are people getting with the tunes? I was doing pretty decent with the Stage 1 Sport maps. But now with the Stage 1 Aggressive maps, my mpg's have really dipped. Also, it's not because I'm driving more aggressive now. Haha.

btw, yes I know, I shouldn't be looking at the mpg's when tuning my car, but I'm still curious.

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by rader1

That's on the stage 2 alpha race map, right? Im not going to use meth, im just not a fan. so im just gonna stick with the stage 2. Im also kinda keeping my goals conservative so (hopefully) i'll be pleasently suprised.

You don't have to use meth if you have access to proper race gas. However, for street driving the race map every day, you'd have to be looking at meth or astronomic fuel prices haha.

Originally Posted by boostd92

Now if I'm driving casually and someone pulls up to me at a red light, I'd be much more inclined to take them on as I can shut it down well before I'm at the throw-you-in-jail-without-asking-quesionts mph range.

Street racing, even if you only hit 40 mph is still throw-you-in-jail-for-the-night-no-questions-asked. Had two idiot friends of mine experience that one...

Originally Posted by jpsimon

hey not all of us AWD guys are scared of breaking something. Later tonight I'm going to use my new vbox for the first time... aiming for some LOW 3 second 0-60's. Pretty sure I can do under 3 seconds once i get PWM meth

Under 3 sec? If you do that's ridiculously fast

[mithiral67]

Mpgs on the highway are mid 30s, average of mid 20s on stage 2+ and my work is 3 miles away

[boostd92]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

All I am saying is that the 1/4 mile ET is a great indication of track performance but it ends there and the trap speed should be the main focus for anyone trying to translate that performance to the sreets.

I suppose. I guess where I separate the men from the boys is from a dig to an agreed upon distance.

Trap speed champions are for guys with no skill and big wallets. ET champions can DRIVE.

I love going to the track and watching the casual Supra, Viper and Mustang Cobra guys shaking their head and looking at their timeslips after watching them run mid 12's at 120mph on street tires.

There is no reason a manual transmission RWD car can't pull sub 2.0 sixties CONSISTENTLY except that the driver doesn't know how to modulate the pedals.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by boostd92

I suppose. I guess where I separate the men from the boys is from a dig to an agreed upon distance.

Trap speed champions are for guys with no skill and big wallets. ET champions can DRIVE.

I love going to the track and watching the casual Supra, Viper and Mustang Cobra guys shaking their head and looking at their timeslips after watching them run mid 12's at 120mph on street tires.

There is no reason a manual transmission RWD car can't pull sub 2.0 sixties CONSISTENTLY except that the driver doesn't know how to modulate the pedals.

ET's do seperate the men from the boys but the only problem with that is that you are factoring the driver's ability at that point and not necessarily fairly comparing the true performance of 2 different cars. A lot of guys bring drag radials / reduce weight at the track but once again those may or may not be realistic street setups for many people. It is noble to compare drivers abilities but once again that is much more meaningful on the track rather than a person who just wishes to enjoy their car on the streets.

Which is why I kind of laugh at a lot of people who massively reduce weight from their cars or run nitrous all of the time because all they are trying to do is to max out the performance of their cars but not necessarily bring up true street conditions for the car. I see an FBO car w big turbos running meth about as close to the max for a street N54 as possible. The moment you reduce weight or run nitrous, remove exhausts or anything else - you are taking away from street capabilities which to me unless you're on a track is pointless.

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

Mods*: Precision 76MM turbo , CP Forged Pistons, Mahle Custom Forged Rods, Custom Pro-EFI tune, Secondary Port Injected Fueling, Kelford High Lift Cams, Crower 3.4L Stroked N54 Crank
812 WHP / 910 WTQ / Best 1/4 - 9.33@154 MPH

You sir, are a troll

[jpsimon]

I am so unbelievably down with what you're saying... I would never in a million years remove seats out of my 50k bmw to get my time down slightly. I want to know what my car can run on a full street/daily driven setup only.

Originally Posted by Questforpower

Which is why I kind of laugh at a lot of people who massively reduce weight from their cars or run nitrous all of the time because all they are trying to do is to max out the performance of their cars but not necessarily bring up true street conditions for the car. I see an FBO car w big turbos running meth about as close to the max for a street N54 as possible. The moment you reduce weight or run nitrous, remove exhausts or anything else - you are taking away from street capabilities which to me unless you're on a track is pointless.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by Brey335i

You sir, are a troll

I may or may not release the 1/4 mile video from my Need For Speed PS3 screen capture...

Hey; we can all wish right?

[subieworx]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Thats true. Even the AWD folks around here wont go from a dig. They are afraid of breaking something or messing up.

That's funny as I came from an 11.2 second daily driven sti before this car that never broke a drivetrain component.

[boostd92]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

the only problem with that is that you are factoring the driver's ability at that point and not necessarily fairly comparing the true performance of 2 different cars.

That's where we differ, surely. I don't consider that a "problem," but actually the goal...

I fail to see the point in comparing the "true performance" of 2 different cars, if all it really is, is a comparison between who can write the bigger check. I mean, you could compare C&D magazine numbers for that...

To me, the only meaningful comparison between modified cars, is if both owners actually did ALL of the modifying/tuning themselves. Then there is at least a skill involved.

If all you did was run your Paypal account or swipe your VISA, what's the point? Might as well just compare W2's instead of cars.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

I am so unbelievably down with what you're saying... I would never in a million years remove seats out of my 50k bmw to get my time down slightly. I want to know what my car can run on a full street/daily driven setup only.

I mean the only reason I say that (and I am not alluding to anyone in particular on this forum)... is because let's say you run some crazy traps and et's in a 335i with no extra seats and other parts removed. Did you really run a 335i record or did you run a 335i record in a car with no seats? lol, I mean the way I see that is that those are 2 completely different things and not necessarily indicative even close to the way the car comes from the factory. To me; the appropriate way to do this is to keep full weight, add no NOS, keep factory fueling (with meth permitted as it's cheap and a viable daily option), go FBO and possibly upgrade the turbos (but not to the point of a single conversion because that in essence alters so much that it's not really a true 335i). I mean I understand doing all that if you are planning on dragging the car left and right but the reality is that that is no longer a true 335i for the streets... I know many people will disagree with me but that is the way I see it.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I see what you're saying but remember the guy who runs 12.4@118 will beat you on the streets / hwy and will ultimately have the faster car. He is only limited by traction; you are limited by power...

don't get me wrong, im not trying to go ONLY for the 1/4, i mean running Cobb stage 2 with slicks isn't exactly going to hurt me running a cobb stage 2 car with street tires
But, i get what you're saying. Just because i can out ET a car doesn't mean i can beat it in the 60-130. Like i said, everybody has different expectations for their car and thats where advancements are made for the platform

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by subieworx

That's funny as I came from an 11.2 second daily driven sti before this car that never broke a drivetrain component.

Well most of the STI guys around here are slow. So the only guys with the good power are the EVO guys. They normally break transfer cases or burn clutches it seems. (or blow motors? heh).

STI is pretty stout but the motor is glass after 400HP

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by boostd92

That's where we differ, surely. I don't consider that a "problem," but actually the goal...

I fail to see the point in comparing the "true performance" of 2 different cars, if all it really is, is a comparison between who can write the bigger check. I mean, you could compare C&D magazine numbers for that...

To me, the only meaningful comparison between modified cars, is if both owners actually did ALL of the modifying/tuning themselves. Then there is at least a skill involved.

If all you did was run your Paypal account or swipe your VISA, what's the point? Might as well just compare W2's instead of cars.

I agree with the yourself part but at least compare 2 cars of the same type with the same exact driver otherwise you will be getting skewed results over and over. Speaking of W-2's, unfortunately that is the way of the world... get a shitty driver but he has the bank account and ultimately yes; he will have the faster car. Nothing we can do about that.

[boostd92]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

unfortunately that is the way of the world... get a shitty driver but he has the bank account and ultimately yes; he will have the faster car. Nothing we can do about that.

?? That's exactly my point about racing from a dig for a specified distance, then YOU can do everything about that... the shitty driver with the big bank account can actually LOSE that way

Regarding your post about what makes a true fast street 335i... I agree with no NOS/no weight reduction, but disagree about turbos. A medium sized single would be awesome (also consider I'm an N55 guy). Just because you go single, doesn't mean you have to go ridiculously big single. A nice 600whp setup would be awesome.

But that brings up another point.. the limit of a fast street car is not horsepower, but traction. From my experience, in a 3000lb car I found about 400-450whp is ideal on the streets in a RWD car with either really good summer tires, or DR's. I'd bet you could bump that to 450-500whp for a 3700lb car.

When going much above that level you either get a super lag monster, or a tire melting machine

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by boostd92

?? That's exactly my point about racing from a dig for a specified distance, then YOU can do everything about that... the shitty driver with the big bank account can actually LOSE that way

Well in the end, the driver with more money can do a lot to win like buy a different / faster car but that's not really a valid argument so I won't take it any further. Remember dudes with 500 WHP evo's who spent a fortune on modifying can get knocked out by Z06's with an intake and exhaust top end. It's up to the driver to take full advantage of where their cars are good but IMHO it is more realistic off rolls, especially when most of the population drives 2WD cars. As I said though; that depends on the POV of each person so no need to take it any further.


Regarding your post about what makes a true fast street 335i... I agree with no NOS/no weight reduction, but disagree about turbos. A medium sized single would be awesome (also consider I'm an N55 guy). Just because you go single, doesn't mean you have to go ridiculously big single. A nice 600whp setup would be awesome.

Agreed 100%, I only mentioned no big singles for N54 guys, for N55 guys that would be a standard upgrade without having to completely redo almost everything so it's perfectly acceptable.

But that brings up another point.. the limit of a fast street car is not horsepower, but traction. From my experience, in a 3000lb car I found about 400-450whp is ideal on the streets in a RWD car with either really good summer tires, or DR's. I'd bet you could bump that to 450-500whp for a 3700lb car.

Agreed again

When going much above that level you either get a super lag monster, or a tire melting machine

.

[themyst]

While I do agree removing seats panels etc is a bit extreme for street trim, virtually ANY aftermarket wheel weighs less than my stock 189s and shouldn't be disqualified as a "street car". Going to a modestly lightweight 18 in wheel from my stock 189s would result in losing 25-30 lbs of unsprung weight. If you believe in the whole 1lb of unsprung weight = 10 lbs static, well that's like dropping 250-300 lbs of static weight.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by themyst

While I do agree removing seats panels etc is a bit extreme for street trim, virtually ANY aftermarket wheel weighs less than my stock 189s and shouldn't be disqualified as a "street car". Going to a modestly lightweight 18 in wheel from my stock 189s would result in losing 25-30 lbs of unsprung weight. If you believe in the whole 1lb of unsprung weight = 10 lbs static, well that's like dropping 250-300 lbs of static weight.

No problem with aftermarket wheels; that is quite the "norm" and a ton of people have them for aesthetics or whatever reason. I wouldn't qualify using lightweight wheels / tires as taking away from street trim either in any sort of way.