[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I think it's "word spin" to be honest. I see it as being one in the same. Laws are designed around constitutional rights (…at least those closely associated with the 1st/4th/6th/etc. Amendments). By enforcing certain laws, we are protecting certain constitutional rights. We protect constitutional rights by enforcing certain laws. See where I'm going with this?

We all use/abide by a similar law enforcement code of ethics which makes mention of respecting constitutional rights. Because our job requires us to navigate the complexities of individual rights in order to effect arrests/seizures, the protections are inherent. We only lawfully infringe upon rights when we need to.

Thanks for the info !

One thing I found stunning in the episode was them showing two P.O.'s showing up to a guy who was filming the outside of a Police Station from a sidewalk. They were asking him to stop, to leave, to give them his ID. The guy asked if he was being detained, and the P.O.'s said he was, so he asked them to get a Supervisor. Shortly afterwards a Lt came outside and told the 2 Officers to meet him in his office. It was hilarious!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

Thanks for the info !

One thing I found stunning in the episode was them showing two P.O.'s showing up to a guy who was filming the outside of a Police Station from a sidewalk. They were asking him to stop, to leave, to give them his ID. The guy asked if he was being detained, and the P.O.'s said he was, so he asked them to get a Supervisor. Shortly afterwards a Lt came outside and told the 2 Officers to meet him in his office. It was hilarious!

Similar situations have resulted in many officers getting into trouble in the past. The sidewalk is public space and people can film. It's for that reason that we rope/tape off crime scenes in public spaces. The rope/tape serves as a boundary and everything within it is effectively a crime scene. Everything aft of the boundary is public space. If you enter the crime scene you are impeding the investigation and are in violation of written law/statute…….


….so we tend to make crime scenes quite broad.

[Sedan_Clan]

This is what EDR data looks like. The amount of data a vehicle records depends on make/model/year.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Similar situations have resulted in many officers getting into trouble in the past. The sidewalk is public space and people can film. It's for that reason that we rope/tape off crime scenes in public spaces. The rope/tape serves as a boundary and everything within it is effectively a crime scene. Everything aft of the boundary is public space. If you enter the crime scene you are impeding the investigation and are in violation of written law/statute…….


….so we tend to make crime scenes quite broad.

I can appreciate the wide space taped off. The way those officers were harassing that guy filming was embarrassing. Even I know you can openly film in public spaces. It's sad that some Officers dont realize this. There are TONS of YT videos online of Police that dont know this simple law.

They must teach this in the Academy. At least I hope they do.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

I can appreciate the wide space taped off. The way those officers were harassing that guy filming was embarrassing. Even I know you can openly film in public spaces. It's sad that some Officers dont realize this. There are TONS of YT videos online of Police that dont know this simple law.

They must teach this in the Academy. At least I hope they do.

Do realize that YouTube posters (…along with posters on similar formats) need a huge sample size to find that one officer/deputy who doesn't know something that they want to post. Think of it like the production of a movie or reality show. You have to obtain hours upon hours of footage to get five minutes of useable film. They have to challenge a thousand LEO's to find ten that can't meet the challenge.

What they teach in academies are bracketed concepts, but most of the learning comes from practical application and experience (…and included in that experience are your fuck-ups).

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Do realize that YouTube posters (…along with posters on similar formats) need a huge sample size to find that one officer/deputy who doesn't know something that they want to post. Think of it like the production of a movie or reality show. You have to obtain hours upon hours of footage to get five minutes of useable film. They have to challenge a thousand LEO's to find ten that can't meet the challenge.

What they teach in academies are bracketed concepts, but most of the learning comes from practical application and experience (…and included in that experience are your fuck-ups).

100% agree with you! They are looking for Likes and whatever else social media craves. I personally dont do ANY of that. It's just mean girl fighting to me. But even knowing that, there sure are a LOT of Officers who dont know the Constitutional Laws they are sworn to Protect. I hope this changes because it would make the USA a greater place. In the Military we were CONSTANTLY given training and courses to take. It was ridiculous. For sure every Month, if not weekly during CBT (Computer Based Training).

I know the Police is not the same as Military due to the UCMJ, but I'm hoping more training can be done so that YouTubers dont embarrass Police for not knowing Constitutional Law.

[Tyga11]

This video is the problem with liberal cities like Seattle. The police are incapacitated and are literally afraid to take action against complete maniacs.

I am so enraged watching this and the K9 Officer losing his life.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

This video is the problem with liberal cities like Seattle. The police are incapacitated and are literally afraid to take action against complete maniacs.

I am so enraged watching this and the K9 Officer losing his life.

That is so hard to watch. It happens more often than is reported. Failure to commit to action is a detriment to officer/deputy.

[ezaircon4jc]

It's a shame the LEO's have to be concerned with how the arm-chair quarterbacks will second-guess their decisions. IMHO, as soon as the creep started hacking at the dog, he should have started dying of a severe case of lead poisoning!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

It's a shame the LEO's have to be concerned with how the arm-chair quarterbacks will second-guess their decisions. IMHO, as soon as the creep started hacking at the dog, he should have started dying of a severe case of lead poisoning!

Yep, because that K9 has the same life value as a human partner, so all bets are off.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Yep, because that K9 has the same life value as a human partner, so all bets are off.

Sorry for the dog but glad the officer was okay.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Sorry for the dog but glad the officer was okay.

I couldn't be a K9 Deputy. I would grow far too attached to that dog and I would lose my shit if anybody harmed it.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I couldn't be a K9 Deputy. I would grow far too attached to that dog and I would lose my shit if anybody harmed it.

Yes, definitely understand. They become your baby, at least for civilians. Not sure how an officer is taught to feel. Would be hard no matter how they are trained, I'm sure.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Yes, definitely understand. They become your baby, at least for civilians. Not sure how an officer is taught to feel. Would be hard no matter how they are trained, I'm sure.

It's the same. They become family. You would do just about anything for them.

[Sedan_Clan]

This is where we're at. Four year old kids shooting at police.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgVYqp-...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


….but if that same 4-year old had been shot and killed, riots aplenty because the police are the bad guys in that scenario.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is where we're at. Four year old kids shooting at police.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CgVYqp-...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


….but if that same 4-year old had been shot and killed, riots aplenty because the police are the bad guys in that scenario.

What is wrong with these "parents"?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Buug959

What is wrong with these "parents"?

My educated guess is he had the firearm on his person, and once he knew he was going to be pulled out of the car, he placed the firearm somewhere in the car (…or attempted to hide it with the kids under the assumption they wouldn't be searched). I'm giving kid the benefit of the doubt by presuming he probably didn't know any better, but that presumption will probably come back to bite me. Horrible parents raising kids these days.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

My educated guess is he had the firearm on his person, and once he knew he was going to be pulled out of the car, he placed the firearm somewhere in the car (…or attempted to hide it with the kids under the assumption they wouldn't be searched). I'm giving kid the benefit of the doubt by presuming he probably didn't know any better, but that presumption will probably come back to bite me. Horrible parents raising kids these days.

You're probably right but the child certainly wasn't taught to respect police at the very least. The environment he was raised in was almost certainly very anti-cop and at four years old he couldn't help but pick up the same attitude.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Buug959

You're probably right but the child certainly wasn't taught to respect police at the very least. The environment he was raised in was almost certainly very anti-cop and at four years old he couldn't help but pick up the same attitude.

Agreed! ….and had that officer fired, it would've wrecked him emotionally.


There was a time I almost shot, and likely would've killed, a pregnant black woman who jumped out of her vehicle during a traffic stop (…while her multiple felon boyfriend/father of her children exited the passenger door and postured like he might have a weapon). It was a horrible situation to be in. Had I shot her, I would've been vilified in the news while her behavior/actions would've been completely ignored. Ironically, her boyfriend had been shot by police a year earlier. These criminals never learn. I did take him to jail though. She lucked out because she was pregnant and her crime was able to be cited out in the field.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agreed! ….and had that officer fired, it would've wrecked him emotionally.


There was a time I almost shot, and likely would've killed, a pregnant black woman who jumped out of her vehicle during a traffic stop (…while her multiple felon boyfriend/father of her children exited the passenger door and postured like he might have a weapon). It was a horrible situation to be in. Had I shot her, I would've been vilified in the news while her behavior/actions would've been completely ignored. Ironically, her boyfriend has been shot by police a year earlier. These criminal never learn. I did take him to jail though. She lucked out because she was pregnant and her crime was able to be cited out in the field.

My respect to you and your brethren Sedan. You perform a service that I never could. It truly takes a special kind of person to deal with these kinds of situations on a regular basis. Thank you for being there for those that need you.

Now this is absolutely unrelated to the last few posts but I'd like to get your opinion. I was on a bit of a road trip to Montreal earlier this week. On the way home I had a bit of a strange encounter with two vehicles in New Brunswick. Both vehicles had Quebec tags and seemed to be traveling together. I, of course, have Nova Scotia tags so we're all from "out of province". I was traveling with my cruise set to 127km in a 110km zone when I came up on them on the divided TransCanada hwy. I'm sure my cruise is quite consistent (although about 5kmh optimistic) because I watch my RPMs and it never waivers. I didn't catch them quickly but more crept up on them and passed them as I drove along. They both tucked in behind me and matched my speed(which I was fine with)... for about 8-10kms. They then both crept passed me and within about 5kms I had to either pass them or slow down. I'm not one to slow down so I passed them. This back and forth went on for close to 100kms. We changed positions probably 12-15 times. It got old for me. It was about then that we came to a long(3-4km) straight stretch with zero traffic on it. I was in front at that point and I had had enough of their game so I jumped on the gas to put some space between us. I'm not the fastest car on the road but my little 335xi is nearly FBO and I'm running MHD stage1+ so it does ok. I scooted down that straight at just under 230kmh. There were a couple of semis engaged in an elephant race just after the end of the straight so I had to slow down to about 115kmh. The two vehicles from Quebec were on my ass in less than 20 seconds so they obviously followed my lead. A little added info for colour, the two vehicles were, #1 Merc GLE400 and #2 Audi Q7 both with middle-aged male drivers. I couldn't see any other occupants in either vehicle because they had towels over the windows. At this point my cruise is back in control and I'm once again at 127kmh with these two behind me... for about 5km when they both creep by me again. So their stupid game resumes. After exchange places with these two another 4-5 times I just pulled over and let them go. Now when I say I pulled over I mean I stopped on the shoulder of the hwy and waited for nearly 5 minutes before continuing on. One would think that would be the end of the story but no. About 50kms down the road I come up on both of them sitting on the shoulder. As I go by they pull out and fall in behind me again. At this point I am starting to wonder if they have some other motive than just using me as their "rabbit". By this time I am getting a little low on fuel and I know there is a long stretch ahead with no services so I pull off to fill up and have some dinner. Both vehicles followed me off the hwy but as I turned in to the truck stop to get fuel they turned in and right back out again. I stopped there for about an hour to eat and fill up. I never saw them again.
Here comes the question part of this story. I wasn't at any time, right or wrong, concerned for my safety. I'm a reasonably fit man that is often asked if I am or was a "biker". I have more than a few times been called "intimidating". LOL I was just annoyed with the silly game these two were playing with their "leap frog" tactics. If I were concerned for my safety and called 911 and described this situation would/should police respond and would they be more likely to respond if I were female? What, if any, charges might be considered by the responding officers? Would the responding officers simply hold these two long enough for me to get some safe distance between us?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Buug959

My respect to you and your brethren Sedan. You perform a service that I never could. It truly takes a special kind of person to deal with these kinds of situations on a regular basis. Thank you for being there for those that need you.

Now this is absolutely unrelated to the last few posts but I'd like to get your opinion. I was on a bit of a road trip to Montreal earlier this week. On the way home I had a bit of a strange encounter with two vehicles in New Brunswick. Both vehicles had Quebec tags and seemed to be traveling together. I, of course, have Nova Scotia tags so we're all from "out of province". I was traveling with my cruise set to 127km in a 110km zone when I came up on them on the divided TransCanada hwy. I'm sure my cruise is quite consistent (although about 5kmh optimistic) because I watch my RPMs and it never waivers. I didn't catch them quickly but more crept up on them and passed them as I drove along. They both tucked in behind me and matched my speed(which I was fine with)... for about 8-10kms. They then both crept passed me and within about 5kms I had to either pass them or slow down. I'm not one to slow down so I passed them. This back and forth went on for close to 100kms. We changed positions probably 12-15 times. It got old for me. It was about then that we came to a long(3-4km) straight stretch with zero traffic on it. I was in front at that point and I had had enough of their game so I jumped on the gas to put some space between us. I'm not the fastest car on the road but my little 335xi is nearly FBO and I'm running MHD stage1+ so it does ok. I scooted down that straight at just under 230kmh. There were a couple of semis engaged in an elephant race just after the end of the straight so I had to slow down to about 115kmh. The two vehicles from Quebec were on my ass in less than 20 seconds so they obviously followed my lead. A little added info for colour, the two vehicles were, #1 Merc GLE400 and #2 Audi Q7 both with middle-aged male drivers. I couldn't see any other occupants in either vehicle because they had towels over the windows. At this point my cruise is back in control and I'm once again at 127kmh with these two behind me... for about 5km when they both creep by me again. So their stupid game resumes. After exchange places with these two another 4-5 times I just pulled over and let them go. Now when I say I pulled over I mean I stopped on the shoulder of the hwy and waited for nearly 5 minutes before continuing on. One would think that would be then end of the story but no. About 50kms down the road I come up on both of them sitting on the shoulder. As I go by they pull out and fall in behind me again. At this point I am starting to wonder if they have some other motive than just using me as their "rabbit". By this time I am getting a little low on fuel and I know there is a long stretch ahead with no services so I pull off to fill up and have some dinner. Both vehicles followed me off the hwy but as I turned in to the truck stop to get fuel they turned in and right back out again. I stopped there for about an hour to eat and fill up. I never saw them again.
Here comes the question part of this story. I wasn't at any time, right or wrong, concerned for my safety. I'm a reasonably fit man that is often asked if I am or was a "biker". I have more than a few times been called "intimidating". LOL I was just annoyed with the silly game these two were playing with their "leap frog" tactics. If I were concerned for my safety and called 911 and described this situation would/should police respond and would they be more likely to respond if I were female? What, if any, charges might be considered by the responding officers? Would the responding officers simply hold these two long enough for me to get some safe distance between us?

Thank you for the support of those of us in this trying profession. It is much appreciated. Trust me!!!!


As for your scenario…..


….anecdotally speaking (…based on my experience working the dispatch and call taking positions for 911 calls, which I do multiple times a week while working overtime), gender never really comes into play……at least not initially. What is more of a trigger is the person's tone of voice, breathing, state of mind, etc. A frantic male will illicit the same state of urgency as a frantic female (…but females do tend to be more dramatic naturally).

There really isn't anything illegal about what the other two motorists did, but it is admittedly annoying. When we receive similar calls, we direct the caller to drive to the station so Deputies can contact the disturbing parties. They would've been pulled over, detained and investigated. It's a significant issue here because we have vehicle-to-vehicle shootings on our freeways regularly.

[Buug959]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Thank you for the support of those of us in this trying profession. It is much appreciated. Trust me!!!!


As you your scenario…..


….anecdotally speaking (…based on my experience working the dispatch and call taking positions for 911 calls, which I do multiple times a week while working overtime), gender never really comes into play……at least not initially. What is more of a trigger is the person's tone of voice, breathing, state of mind, etc. A frantic male will illicit the same state of urgency as a frantic female (…but females do tend to be more dramatic naturally).

There really isn't anything illegal about what the other two motorists did, but it is admittedly annoying. When we receive similar calls, we direct the caller to drive to the station so Deputies can contact the disturbing parties. They would've been pulled over, detained and investigated. It's a significant issue here because we have vehicle-to-vehicle shootings on our freeways regularly.

That is very much the answer I was expecting. I thought when I pulled off the first time that it would have been the end of it. Admittedly I should have done that initially instead of trying to out-pace them with my brief high speed sprint. My concern started when I came up on them sitting on the shoulder and they jumped in behind me again. When they followed me off the hwy and then turned around when I entered the truck stop it really made me wonder about their motives. I can only imagine what would have been going through a female's mind and it frightens me.