[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by temporaptor

Where did you come up with this B5 theory for CA?

I live in WA State, a CA (that's California) emissions state. CA emissions states have a higher standard (for some specifications of diesel fuel) than the rest of the country. WA State is a B5 state (unless you search out "pure" diesel.)

I don't know what CA has (nor do I really care) as far as biodiesel content. But most of the country has some biodiesel content.

Not sure if that answers your question. I hope you know that biodiesel improves lubricity.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

I can only see Louis' posts after somebody quotes him, because he went on my ignore list quite some time ago after our first interaction here. I did see his comment quoted above about some additive company being "incentivized" to find problems. People believing these companies have an incentive for anything other than profit must be either ignorant or a shill. I thought I remembered seeing something from this person a couple weeks ago regarding a new car and they no longer even own a BMW. If I was mistaken from reading between the quoted lines it wouldn't be the first time, but if that is the case, the shill possibility seems more likely. Maybe an unofficial shill who works or worked for one of the greedy corporations.

This is simple common sense once you get past the fact that money and the financial system from the Federal Reserve down to you and me and everybody in between provides the basis for everything to function in this society. All the rest of the related gobbledygook is just a bunch of conspiracy theories.

Who knows? Don't care. Just be careful what you read on the Internet.

As an aside, any word on the pipeline topic, BB? Wouldn't want anyone believing I'm spreading false or misleading information....

Such a rant. Personal attacks when facts won't do the trick.

Maybe making a profit is the incentive for Infineum to look for problems - it sells additive. Nothing wrong with that, but in research publishing, one must make financial disclosures when research is published. The Infineum report had a large disclaimer at the beginning - nothing wrong with that.

97,000 miles on my 335d and counting. Looking at 535d and even 740Ld xDrive perhaps as my next car.... Not really wedded to any brand - have had Ford, VW, Mercedes too. Wife got the 2017 Jaguar XE 2.0d and loves it so far.

PL

[BB_cuda]

Delivering data from pipeline industry and staying out of this

Conversation with my brother:
Me:Pipeline question please: Talking with guys on internet about additives. I was told by a tanker driver that was off loading to station i was at that he puts additive package in as the load is being transferred to the truck.Is this most always the case? More direct, Do pipelines carry diesel with no additives, ie just the base diesel from refinery?

Him:Pipelines carry API spec fuels. These fuels have additives that prevent pipeline corrosion. All of the diesel that goes to pipeline tank farms is very similar since the tank farms are like a bank. All of the customer's fuels are bulked like a bank bulks money. The exception is 5%biodiesel but that will probably change. It will become more like gas in that all of the pumps will say "may contain 5% biodiesel.

The tanker driver is correct. The actual formulation advertised on TV is created at the truck loading rack. That is also where they add the ethanol since ethanol corrodes pipelines. The ethanol is shipped by rail or truck

Me:So the biodiesel is in separate tank at tank farm? I wished the % of biodiesel was really known as it says "up to" 5%. Unlike ethanol, biodiesel is a good thing in my opinion. Better lubricity and higher cetane.

Him:Right now they are separate but I think it will all be bio at some point

The problem for us is that the product cuts produce transmix. The recyclers that buy our transmix don't like the bio in it because it cokes up their distillation column. Bio can't be delivered next to jet either. No bio allowed in JetA

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

...
Him:Pipelines carry API spec fuels. ...
Bio can't be delivered next to jet either. No bio allowed in JetA

That is definitely supported by these words in a CARB document, where they determined that the diesel suppliers needed more time to put the additive tanks at the end-product tank farm, rather than ship it in the diesel in the pipeline: https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/dieslub/eo.pdf

---------------------------
WHEREAS, the Finding of Emergency includes findings that:
In order to consistently comply with the new lubricity standard, some California refiners will need to increase their use of lubricity additives in diesel fuel; until October 2004, California refiners were expecting to continue to their practice of adding the lubricity additives to their diesel fuel at the refinery, including the more than 50 percent of the state’s diesel fuel that is shipped through the pipeline system of California’s primary common carrier pipeline operator after it leaves the refinery;

Because of recently-raised concerns that lubricity additives in diesel fuel shipped by pipeline could contaminate subsequent shipments of jet fuel, the operator of California’s primary common carrier pipeline announced on November 5, 2004, that it will only permit the pipeline transport of California diesel fuel treated with the type and amount of additive consistent with regular practices in the past years; while the operator would on an expedited basis be equipping its terminals with diesel fuel additization blending equipment that would allow the additives to be added after the diesel fuel was shipped through the pipeline, installation of the equipment could not be completed by January 1, 2005; and

Pending installation of the terminal additization equipment, refiners have very limited options for complying with the new lubricity standard when increased levels or lubricity additives are needed for diesel fuel being shipped by common carrier pipeline;

[Torqu3]

So there's a VP Racing Fuels being built right up the road from my house. Anyone use these people regularly? Looking to swap stations if their diesel is higher quality. I usually just go to the local stripes since it's the biggest station in town and I know most of the Duramax and Cummins people go there. Outside of that, I run a bottle of Power Service Diesel Kleen every 2 months, and it seems to run a little smoother and I get a little better MPG with it.

[temporaptor]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

I live in WA State, a CA (that's California) emissions state. CA emissions states have a higher standard (for some specifications of diesel fuel) than the rest of the country. WA State is a B5 state (unless you search out "pure" diesel.)

I don't know what CA has (nor do I really care) as far as biodiesel content. But most of the country has some biodiesel content.

Not sure if that answers your question. I hope you know that biodiesel improves lubricity.

Ok was just curious. California wants to get rid of biodiesel due to higher nox emissions. A lot of bio co-op's have closed because CA is now subsidizing fuels like Propel HPR due to lower nox output.

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by temporaptor

Ok was just curious. California wants to get rid of biodiesel due to higher nox emissions. A lot of bio co-op's have closed because CA is now subsidizing fuels like Propel HPR due to lower nox output.

Propel HPR is all I use now, whenever I can get it. It's available close enough to me locally at a couple of different stations, and then in both places I typically go to see family in Fremont and down south in LA.

[Petrores]

Gonna try diesel purge on my d to address some injector issues.

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by temporaptor

Ok was just curious. California wants to get rid of biodiesel due to higher nox emissions. A lot of bio co-op's have closed because CA is now subsidizing fuels like Propel HPR due to lower nox output.

Can you elaborate on lower NOx levels? Perhaps quote reduction in percentages, etc. Looking for tangible data, please.

For anyone HPR savvy, any info on lubricity level as delivered from pump (not pre additives that are generally loaded at tanker terminal).

[JTC1]

Not HPR savvy....nowhere near an HPR location, but this is from there website:
http://dieselhpr.com/assets/media/Di...cification.pdf

Also claim to reduce NOx by 14%.

[Hockey13]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Can you elaborate on lower NOx levels? Perhaps quote reduction in percentages, etc. Looking for tangible data, please.

For anyone HPR savvy, any info on lubricity level as delivered from pump (not pre additives that are generally loaded at tanker terminal).

so you want to know the centane?

[Hockey13]

hpr specs

[temporaptor]

https://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2015/a.../adf15isor.pdf
https://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/2a...rpt-072915.pdf

[BB_cuda]

Hockey, thanks for the tech info in that table. It says it exceeds ( I think they mean it's lower than as that is better) the normal diesel spec with additives put in and quotes 460 micrometers scar wear level. This tells me they don't have a number to go brag on but only <460 micrometer.

[EvanTheBruce]

Woo hoo! We got this as a sticky!

[raptor_f22]

This thread has become ridiculous, I can't believe it's made it to a sticky.

[dmanb2b]

Originally Posted by raptor_f22

This thread has become ridiculous, I can't believe it's made it to a sticky.

Thanks for your contribution!

[fsd350]

I use Motorcraft Cetane Boost in Summer months and Motorcraft Anti-Gel in the Winter months. I work for a WD and get it pretty cheap. They are recommended by Ford to improve lubricity, this was a big issue with the HEUI systems used in the 7.3 and 6.0 Ford diesels. Have always used the products in every diesel I have owned but have not monitored or felt any MPG or performance increase. More of a preventative measure for me. I recommend always using some type of anti-gel during the winter months. The risk of being stranded somewhere in the cold or sustaining fuel system damage is too great for me to save a few bucks on anti-gel IMO. I am getting too old for that s**t.

[Torqu3]

Just wanted to share my experience with Power Service Diesel Kleen+Cetane Boost(Gray/Silver Bottle). I noticed my car running louder than what I expected, and over the last few months it seems to have just gotten louder and louder. It was also idling kinda rough. Nothing really insane, I wasn't vibrating in my seat, but when sitting still if I shut the car off there was a noticeable shake that disappeared when I shut the car off. I was feeling extravagant with my money and the fuel tank was low so I hopped on over to the local superstore and bought a 32oz Gray(or silver) bottle of Diesel Kleen. I poured about 12oz of the stuff into the tank and then filled up at [Gas station of choice]. I won't say I'm noticing more power or anything, but my car is absolutely running quieter and smoother. I plan on running the whole 32oz of stuff through my car over the course of 3 fill-ups(about 1350 miles). Will update with the results.

[Mark M]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Just wanted to share my experience with Power Service Diesel Kleen+Cetane Boost(Gray/Silver Bottle). I noticed my car running louder than what I expected, and over the last few months it seems to have just gotten louder and louder. It was also idling kinda rough. Nothing really insane, I wasn't vibrating in my seat, but when sitting still if I shut the car off there was a noticeable shake that disappeared when I shut the car off. I was feeling extravagant with my money and the fuel tank was low so I hopped on over to the local superstore and bought a 32oz Gray(or silver) bottle of Diesel Kleen. I poured about 12oz of the stuff into the tank and then filled up at [Gas station of choice]. I won't say I'm noticing more power or anything, but my car is absolutely running quieter and smoother. I plan on running the whole 32oz of stuff through my car over the course of 3 fill-ups(about 1350 miles). Will update with the results.

Sounds like your ratio may have been too heavy. Directions call for 32oz per 100 gallons. So for a fill up you'd only need about 5oz. Not 12 oz.

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Sounds like your ratio may have been too heavy. Directions call for 32oz per 100 gallons. So for a fill up you'd only need about 5oz. Not 12 oz.

I know for sure my ratio was heavy, but I was starting to get worried and wanted to see if there were immediate results. There were. Plus the stuff is just diesel fuel. Nothing inherently dangerous to using too much. Of course I'm not going to go crazy with how much I use, but I don't think 1oz per gallon is going to hurt much. Here on out I'll just stick to the recommended dosage.

[aaddam2]

not a fuel additive, but oil additive (engine treatment) and/or different oil. a co-worker just told me he uses this on his ecoboost mustang. was curious if you additive/chemically inclined people might have heard or had any experience with "Cerma STM-3 for Diesel"

they have one where it is good for 30k miles and you are supposed to change your filter @ regular intervals.

so the real trick claimed with treatment aka additive (not the oil itself) is it takes the dirty oil and when you add the treatment it uses heat and the carbon to make silicon carbide surface on everything so it is no porous.

Novel additive/oil that is out shadowed by "big oil", or snake oil?