[Clifton]

Originally Posted by Socom

Castrol consolidated their naming conventions just a few months ago. The only LL01 sold outside the dealerships in the US is their 0w-30. It Castrol Edge with Syntec. The 5w40 you speak about used to be a LL98 IIRC.

FYI - Castrol Edge w/Syntec 5w40, is now a LL-01.

[Chriztofor]

^^^^ Nice!!!

[Clifton]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

^^^^ Nice!!!

I found the 5w40 on sale at Pep Boys for $6.50/qt (reg. $8.79). Goes without saying that I cleaned house at my local store. The check-out clerk was shocked to see my cart.

Not sure if they meant to put the newer Edge bottles on-sale because they still had some of the older 5w40 Syntec bottles (LL-98) on hand.

[Crusader]

Every now and then someone posts here asking how often should the oil be changed. Is this oil or that oil suitable for my BMW. Then someone else chimes in that the oil should be changed per the service indicator or twice as often or ... Then another emphasizes the oil must be BMW approved or meet such-and-such a specification or your warranty is void. (OBTW, BMW doesn't test and/or approve oil unless the manufacturer submits it to them.)

BMW makes pretty good engines. Back in the seventies when they started making their reputation, 250,000 mile without any internal work (valves, rings, bearings, etc) was common ... with good old DINO oil! Do you think BMW sweats warranty replacements for lubrication prior to 50K or 4 years? You could NEVER change the oil, just add a quart as needed, and the engine would survive the warranty period. Modern engines and lubricants are that good. Of course, the guy that buys the car from you might not appreciate the impact your lack of maintenance has on the engine's remaining service life now that it's HIS engine in HIS car.

The service interval for the N54/N52 tends to be 15-19000 miles. In the past, BMW owners have found their engines have a lot of sludge accumulation with change intervals of that duration. No failures, just sludge; maybe not good in the long run. Given my experience with several Bimmers and other cars using synthetic oil, if you change at reasonable intervals ... 5,000 to 7,500 miles ... and use a good quality synthetic oil (Mobile 1 and its immediate competitors is good enough), in something approaching the right viscosity range, lubrication will not be a problem. My E39 530i, nicely broken in at 95,000 miles, burned less than 1/2 a quart between 6,000 mile changes.

Mobil 1 is not BMW approved (unless it's the 0W40 formula), or is it? In a personal correspondence, BMWNA said it is. Neither is Royal Purple nor Redline, yet both are regarded as superior lubricants in both documented and undocumented reviews. Mike Miller, tech guru for BMWCCA's Roundel and Bimmer, likes Redline at 10,000 mile intervals in his E46 ... and he's got the oil analysis to back up his conviction.

If your car lives at redline, if you live in a harsh environment and make lots of short trips, or if you just want to have the car for 10+ years and 250,000 miles; you might lean toward a more conservative oil change program. If you plan to unload the car before the warranty period, stick with BMW's condition based service interval.

[Ms6 to 335i]

what about the mobil 1 0-40 is that a good oil to use???

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by Ms6 to 335i

what about the mobil 1 0-40 is that a good oil to use???

i've been using it for almost 6 years.....

[bas2000]

I buy Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30 in the 5 quart jugs at Advanced Auto.


http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

[CEVMAN]

lubro moli anyone?

[BlackSheep343]

^

I would also like to know if anyone prefers Liqui Moly products...

[Snyperx]

Originally Posted by bas2000

I buy Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30 in the 5 quart jugs at Advanced Auto.


http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

I was reading in antoher thread that the SynPower sold at Walmart and other places is NOT the LL01 approved oil. Apparently there is two versions of this oil. When I looked at the back of the bottle of the SynPower 5w30 it was NOT LL01 approved. BMW should make a note of that on their oil documentation, but they have not.

[john_e90bimmer]

A question to those running 0w40, have you noticed your oil temp running much higher than with 5w30?

[Snyperx]

Originally Posted by john_e90bimmer

A question to those running 0w40, have you noticed your oil temp running much higher than with 5w30?

How do you check that? Hidden menus? All I know is that I am running what BMW recommends.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Crusader

Every now and then someone posts here asking how often should the oil be changed. Is this oil or that oil suitable for my BMW. Then someone else chimes in that the oil should be changed per the service indicator or twice as often or ... Then another emphasizes the oil must be BMW approved or meet such-and-such a specification or your warranty is void. (OBTW, BMW doesn't test and/or approve oil unless the manufacturer submits it to them.)

BMW makes pretty good engines. Back in the seventies when they started making their reputation, 250,000 mile without any internal work (valves, rings, bearings, etc) was common ... with good old DINO oil! Do you think BMW sweats warranty replacements for lubrication prior to 50K or 4 years? You could NEVER change the oil, just add a quart as needed, and the engine would survive the warranty period. Modern engines and lubricants are that good. Of course, the guy that buys the car from you might not appreciate the impact your lack of maintenance has on the engine's remaining service life now that it's HIS engine in HIS car.

The service interval for the N54/N52 tends to be 15-19000 miles. In the past, BMW owners have found their engines have a lot of sludge accumulation with change intervals of that duration. No failures, just sludge; maybe not good in the long run. Given my experience with several Bimmers and other cars using synthetic oil, if you change at reasonable intervals ... 5,000 to 7,500 miles ... and use a good quality synthetic oil (Mobile 1 and its immediate competitors is good enough), in something approaching the right viscosity range, lubrication will not be a problem. My E39 530i, nicely broken in at 95,000 miles, burned less than 1/2 a quart between 6,000 mile changes.

Mobil 1 is not BMW approved (unless it's the 0W40 formula), or is it? In a personal correspondence, BMWNA said it is. Neither is Royal Purple nor Redline, yet both are regarded as superior lubricants in both documented and undocumented reviews. Mike Miller, tech guru for BMWCCA's Roundel and Bimmer, likes Redline at 10,000 mile intervals in his E46 ... and he's got the oil analysis to back up his conviction.

If your car lives at redline, if you live in a harsh environment and make lots of short trips, or if you just want to have the car for 10+ years and 250,000 miles; you might lean toward a more conservative oil change program. If you plan to unload the car before the warranty period, stick with BMW's condition based service interval.

I know this is beating a dead horse, but how can you say "BMW owners have found their engines have a lot of sludge accumulation with change intervals of that duration"? I've never read anywhere on the net, in magazines, or from anywhere else that BMW owners who follow the recommended OCIs find sludge in their engines. I've run three (3) BMWs to 256,000 (1989 E30), 152,000 - current mileage (1997 Z3), and my '06 E90 currently at 170,000 miles, all at the respective CBS directed oil change intervals, and none of those engines had or have any sludge in them. That is over 570,000 of combined miles of driving. My E90 at 170,000 miles burns a quart of oil about every 14,000 miles or so with an average OCI of 17,500 miles; but that doesn't prove anything.

If owners want to follow the CBS or change early it's their prerogative; but what is tiring is people who come on this forum and make emphatic statements like yours, which have no basis in truth and are just opinion.

Rant over...

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by Snyperx

How do you check that? Hidden menus? All I know is that I am running what BMW recommends.

Perhaps he is only addressing 335i owners as their cars are equipped with oil temp gauges, unlike our lowly 325i/328i machines.

Tom

[Casca]

Was considering going with http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E90-325.../Oil/ES205065/

I'm currently using RLI HD SHP 5W40. It's a heavy duty biobased lubricant that was formulated by Terry Dyson specifically for high heat, turbo, DI, etc. applications found in the Audi RS6 and of course the N54. So far what I've noticed when compared to BMW 5w30 is that the oil runs about ~20 degrees cooler (oil sits at around 220 degrees after reaching normal operating temp compared to 240-245 degrees) and it cools down MUCH more quickly as well; I have a feeling this would be very beneficial for those who do HPDE's and other tracking events in order to avoid and/or prolong limp mode.

I'll run it for ~7,500 miles and then send it off to Blackstone for a UOA. I'm fairly easy on this car, so if I can get 8k+ OCIs out of this oil that would be great! Other than that the motor runs smooth/quiet with no other differences to note. Only time will tell how it stacks up to more conventional lubricants but I'm excited to see the lab results.

Here's a Tech Data Sheet on the oil itself for those who are interested:
http://www.renewablelube.com/synxtra...otor%20Oil.pdf

[Crusader]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

I know this is beating a dead horse, but how can you say "BMW owners have found their engines have a lot of sludge accumulation with change intervals of that duration"? I've never read anywhere on the net, in magazines, or from anywhere else that BMW owners who follow the recommended OCIs find sludge in their engines. I've run three (3) BMWs to 256,000 (1989 E30), 152,000 - current mileage (1997 Z3), and my '06 E90 currently at 170,000 miles, all at the respective CBS directed oil change intervals, and none of those engines had or have any sludge in them. That is over 570,000 of combined miles of driving. My E90 at 170,000 miles burns a quart of oil about every 14,000 miles or so with an average OCI of 17,500 miles; but that doesn't prove anything.

If owners want to follow the CBS or change early it's their prerogative; but what is tiring is people who come on this forum and make emphatic statements like yours, which have no basis in truth and are just opinion.

Rant over...

Sludge complaints were common among 540i owners on the E39 board, I also qualified the comment saying no damage had been done. The E30 didn't have a CBS per se, it was a simple 7,500 mile interval (essentially what I'm doing on my E92). The E36/4 service was based on fuel consumption only, no elaborate algorithms there. The E9x is more complex and my E92 must like the way I drive, for its CBS recommends first oil change at 19,500 miles or thereabouts; evidently the current CBS figures in duty cycles, etc.

I thought it was pretty clear I was offering an opinion, sorry that opinion rubbed you the wrong way. Service intervals on the BMW essentially doubled when service became "free." Is that driven by engineering or marketing? I haven't a clue, but I have my suspicions. Actually, my main motive was to express my exasperation about those who spread doom and gloom should one use an oil other than those few that are "BMW approved."

OBTW, I'm happy that you have had such trouble free ownership experiences.

[kiwi29]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

I'm currently using RLI HD SHP 5W40. It's a heavy duty biobased lubricant that was formulated by Terry Dyson specifically for high heat, turbo, DI, etc. applications found in the Audi RS6 and of course the N54. So far what I've noticed when compared to BMW 5w30 is that the oil runs about ~20 degrees cooler (oil sits at around 220 degrees after reaching normal operating temp compared to 240-245 degrees) and it cools down MUCH more quickly as well; I have a feeling this would be very beneficial for those who do HPDE's and other tracking events in order to avoid and/or prolong limp mode.

I'll run it for ~7,500 miles and then send it off to Blackstone for a UOA. I'm fairly easy on this car, so if I can get 8k+ OCIs out of this oil that would be great! Other than that the motor runs smooth/quiet with no other differences to note. Only time will tell how it stacks up to more conventional lubricants but I'm excited to see the lab results.

Here's a Tech Data Sheet on the oil itself for those who are interested:
http://www.renewablelube.com/synxtra...otor%20Oil.pdf

Which one seemed to run at a lower temp rating? Was it the 40W or the 30w?

[Surly73]

Hi all:

I'm new to the E90 platform, but not to BMWs and I know lots about oil.

The N52 has even more oil-operated doohickeys than the older cars, but a general rule of thumb to remember is that BMW LL-01 is only required if you plan on going to full service interval and/or you are under some sort of warranty and don't want to take chances with warranty coverage.

If you plan to change more often (2-3x the factory service interval) you don't have to shop for LL-01 specifically, but I would recommend shopping for ACEA A3 if you are looking at any 30 weight oils. ACEA A3 is the basis for LL-01 and mandates some minimum specifications for HTHS specifications. HTHS pertains to thickness when subjected to shearing forces. For the record, a BMW driven by an enthusiast results in lots of shearing.

ACEA A3 rated oils have a minimum starting HTHS rating and are supposed to have a minimum level of shear resistance over the life of the oil. HTHS is not the same as viscosity, although an oil with higher HTHS at the same viscosity is a "better engineered" oil.

In general, high performance European engines expect certain shear behaviour.

So, if you're looking at 0W30, 5W30, 10W30 or 0W40 look for ACEA A3. If you're looking at 5W40, 10W40, 15W40 and up you're probably OK since these thicker oils naturally have higher HTHS values. You will find that relatively few 30 weight oils earn ACEA A3. This is because they need to be extremely tough while still being "thin". I believe that German Castrol 0W30 is the only 0W30 on the market to earn ACEA A3. It's no coincidence that it also has LL-01.

BMW's 5W30 is not the same as Syntec 5W30. BMW's blend has higher HTHS and is at the thick end of being labelled a 30 ("30" is actually a wide range of viscosity). Just because the owner's manual says "5W30" doesn't mean you should put any 5W30 in there. Mobil1 5w30 is dramatically thinner than BMW's, and thinner at operating temperature than Castrol 0W30, for instance.

I performed lab analysis on the used oil from my M52 on a regular basis (every other OCI or so) to confirm that I was seeing good engine wear, no contamination, and that the oil was not heavily sheared, stayed in grade and had enough acid fighting additives to remain viable at my oil change interval.

Lab analysis is really the only way to tune your oil change interval to YOUR engine, YOUR driving, YOUR climate and YOUR choice in oil.

I don't have enough experience with the N52 yet to see how sensitive they are to specific viscosity in the field. "Protection" and "operation" are potentially two completely separate factors. You can have complete protection from engine wear but if your VANOS or Valvetronic doesn't work properly then who cares?

Originally Posted by kiwi29

Which one seemed to run at a lower temp rating? Was it the 40W or the 30w?

The oil that I am currently using (RLI HD SHP 5W40) is running at a lower temp rating than the BMW 5w30 which I had in there before.

[kiwi29]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

The oil that I am currently using (RLI HD SHP 5W40) is running at a lower temp rating than the BMW 5w30 which I had in there before.

I just bought a whole case of 0w40 mobil 1, any thoughts? Will it work or is the weight off?

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by kiwi29

I just bought a whole case of 0w40 mobil 1, any thoughts? Will it work or is the weight off?

It's fine.

My personal empirical observation on M52 and M54 engines is that Mobil1 is significantly "noisier" than other oils but it's protection is excellent. Lab analysis on used M1 0W40 in my M52 was excellent. I switched to GC (Castrol 0W30 made in Germany) because of this noise issue. My M52 was transformed noise-wise by this change.

You're good to go.

You'll notice the bottle will specifically say LL-01 on it.