[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jkoral

I've driven a BMW manual since 1996 and plan to keep buying manual as long as I can. It's slower, but more engaging. I don't derive a paycheck from my lap times or the red light drag strip, so it makes no difference to me. I've daily driven all my manuals and never tired, or regretted it, even in stop and go traffic (Boston area) - although since covid-19, my M2 has sat in the garage since March 2020.

When BMW no longer offers a manual, I would consider switching brands. But with the G87 LCI ending production in Spring 2029, I should be able to keep driving BMW manuals to at least 2035 (I keep my cars a long time).

BTW, I taught my wife to drive manual and she enjoys it. She bought a manual for her next car (back in 1997). She has only driven my car on very rare occasions (once per year, if that).

So, I'd like to address this idea that modern automatics shift faster than modern manual transmissions. So, in cases where the automatic is a PDK or dual-clutch automatic, sure those transmissions, which are really manual gearboxes anyway, can shift faster than a traditional 3-pedal manual. And some of the torque converter automatics with 6, 8, and 10 speed automatics can be programmed to shift faster as well, but the speeds of those shifts are tied to the amount of throttle input the driver is providing relative to his acceleration desires. But in real world street use, a dual clutch or torque converter auto transmission shifts no faster in traffic than a 3-pedal at moderate throttle input. So, to me, in real application, how fast some modern automatic transmissions can shift is mostly irrelevant; they CAN shift a little faster than a 3-pedal, but in real use, mostly they really don't. I'd much rather trade a small amount of theoretical shift speed for far greater gear selection choice, especially the instant availability to have neutral at any time.

The above point is tied to my question to the OP if he thinks manumatics can shift faster than a 3-pedal. If you are a true manual transmission driver, shifting is mostly an unconscious act that just is a part of driving, as much as steering is used to change directions.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I appreciate the input. The point of me asking the question is not to get a definitive yes/no answer (yes, I know, I set up a poll and asked a yes/no question), but to gain perspective that I currently don't have. 100% understand those are other people's perspectives, but they're better than no perspective at all outside of the handful of times I've driven a manual car.

I think the fact that I'm asking the question to begin with means I'm willing to commit to a lifestyle change. If I wasn't then I'd have literally no reason to create this post.

But to answer your questions:
- Automatics being faster is a combination of the car and the driver doing the shifting. As a novice, I'd fully expect an equivalent auto to easily outperform me rowing my own gears. That being said, it's a VERY small con for me if at all. After a certain point incremental increases in speed just don't matter anymore, else I'd have ended up in a Tesla by now.

- I'm not really worried about heavy traffic since I don't experience that on a normal basis, but gaining perspective for people who have is valuable input for me.

- Being fully engaged with the act of driving sounds amazing. Do I want to be fully engaged 100% of the time? It's very hard for me to answer that... inclination is to say yes, but again this is where gaining people's perspective comes into play (i.e. do you sometimes get tired of it, or is it something which makes you look forward to it every time you sit in the car)

- Shifting a "manumatic" is nowhere near the same as a true manual.

I'm not 100% relying on an online forum to help answer this for me.. I'm being proactive (at least I think I am). I just set up a rental for an Evo X for a few days next week to see how I like driving it around my hood for some additional perspective. I'll report back how it makes me feel.

I never tire of having full manual control of gear selection.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I never tire of having full manual control of gear selection.

Agreed. I find it more tiring to drive an automatic in traffic. Holding down the brake takes more effort, and the car always trying to move forward in stop and go traffic gets annoying. The spousal Volvo has a button to stop the creep, it's pretty nice.

I've lived in Dallas, Orange County and Austin, all have bad traffic and I've never once regretted having nothing but manuals.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Agreed. I find it more tiring to drive an automatic in traffic. Holding down the brake takes more effort, and the car always trying to move forward in stop and go traffic gets annoying. The spousal Volvo has a button to stop the creep, it's pretty nice.

I've lived in Dallas, Orange County and Austin, all have bad traffic and I've never once regretted having nothing but manuals.

That's the beauty of having instant access to neutral; and two ways to get it, via your left foot, or right hand. Instant torque release of the drivetrain.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Agreed. I find it more tiring to drive an automatic in traffic. Holding down the brake takes more effort, and the car always trying to move forward in stop and go traffic gets annoying. The spousal Volvo has a button to stop the creep, it's pretty nice.

Every new BMW today has Brake Hold if it has an automatic. It's been around for quite some time.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Every new BMW today has Brake Hold if it has an automatic. It's been around for quite some time.

Mine has traffic jam assist. Car does everything for you, braking, accelerating, stopping, starting, steering, etc.

Although I was planning to not equip my next car with it anyway since I don't get much use out of it as I don't get much traffic at all.

[Saenenj]

Yes go for manual, unless youre constant in traffic jams.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Every new BMW today has Brake Hold if it has an automatic. It's been around for quite some time.

Our F30 might have had it. That thing required so many button pushes just to in-Buick it's dumb ass I stopped buying BMWs.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Agreed. I find it more tiring to drive an automatic in traffic. Holding down the brake takes more effort, and the car always trying to move forward in stop and go traffic gets annoying. The spousal Volvo has a button to stop the creep, it's pretty nice.

I've lived in Dallas, Orange County and Austin, all have bad traffic and I've never once regretted having nothing but manuals.

Adaptative Cruise Control.

Once you get it, you can't live without it in places like this IME. Pushing a heavy clutch disc gets tiring and annoying after a little while. Standing on the brake of an auto gets annoying in the same way. But being able to let the car just go and get there when you get there is priceless.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by RM7

Adaptative Cruise Control.

Once you get it, you can't live without it in places like this IME. Pushing a heavy clutch disc gets tiring and annoying after a little while. Standing on the brake of an auto gets annoying in the same way. But being able to let the car just go and get there when you get there is priceless.

Agree. We have it on our Volvo and it's the best automatic I've driven. I'd assume any brand is similar, not suggesting Volvo is the real reason.

It's great, for an automatic. I never use cruise on my car and have some of the nannies disabled. But that's a manual.

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Go auto. If you have to ask, there is only one answer.

Bingo!

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Go auto. If you have to ask, there is only one answer.

I agree with Tambo. You KNOW when you want a manual, and then you simply get one, "no questions asked". If there's any doubt, just get an auto.

I've owned 4 manuals, and I don't regret any of them...but now that I've had 4 consecutive autos or DCTs, I don't miss the manual enough to get another one, unless it's a "fun" car...like a GT3 or something. I miss it occasionally, like twice a year. All other times, I'm totally happy with my auto.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I've owned 4 manuals, and I don't regret any of them...but now that I've had 4 consecutive autos or DCTs, I don't miss the manual enough to get another one, unless it's a "fun" car...like a GT3 or something. I miss it occasionally, like twice a year. All other times, I'm totally happy with my auto.

Thanks for this perspective. I've owned nothing but autos my entire life and am thinking about making this change, but admittedly don't totally know what I'm getting into outside of those few times I've driven manual. I'm hoping over the next several months to begin driving more manual cars (through rentals) to see what it's like to drive on a daily basis around my hood. Hoping that gives me a bit more clarity on "I have to have manual" or, "It's cool but I'm fine with auto".

One thing I'll mention again though, me asking the question isn't indication of me having doubts. It's just a call for perspectives (like yours) in case I'm missing something since I don't have the experience. I have this itch to own a manual and gain more engagement from the car - this is more a sanity check. I probably should have worded my thread better... like, "I'm strongly considering getting my first manual car, anything I need to consider?"

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Is this a trick question?

So unless you are a serious fanatic about shift times etc and most of the people you meet or will talk it up can't get around the track as fast as they will tell you. If you want to feel like you're actually engage with a sports car go for the stick....seriously, this is a trick question right?

Is this a trick question?


Is this EVEN a question is what I thought!!! I have had a manual in my garage for over 25 years straight now.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by unluky

Is this a trick question?


Is this EVEN a question is what I thought!!! I have had a manual in my garage for over 25 years straight now.

I've had nothing but autos.... hence the question

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by unluky

Is this a trick question?


Is this EVEN a question is what I thought!!! I have had a manual in my garage for over 25 years straight now.

I have had a stick since the second car I owned in 1980.

[INTMD8]

Originally Posted by RM7

Adaptative Cruise Control.

Once you get it, you can't live without it in places like this IME. Pushing a heavy clutch disc gets tiring and annoying after a little while. Standing on the brake of an auto gets annoying in the same way. But being able to let the car just go and get there when you get there is priceless.

Adaptive is not usable for my drives.

Commute is high speed with a lot of congestion, people pull into the spot the adaptive cruise leaves in front of you.


Anyway, I always prefer manual trans. If I have a car without one, it wasn't offered.

[VAcurler]

Having never owned an automatic (including an SUV in the late 90s) my answer is that any new car purchased in 2022 should either be a proper 3 pedal car or a purely electric vehicle.

[Darth One]

You already mentioned the most important point - if anyone ever wanted to try owning a manual, now's the time, and it's running out.

You can buy a manual now, figure out if you like it, and if not you've had a life experience.

If you wait much longer, you'll never know what you missed (unless you buy an older car - which isn't a bad option considering what's out there these days)

[Esteban]

As others have said, get a manual. Unless you don't really enjoy driving, and a car is just an appliance to you, taking you from point A to point B and back again.

Also, with one child and another on the way I say get 4 doors. When my kids were little I had a Supra and it became a real PITA getting out and pulling the front seats forward every time they had to get in and get out. It's so much easier to just open the back doors. Unless your kids won't be riding in your car very much.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Esteban

As others have said, get a manual. Unless you don't really enjoy driving, and a car is just an appliance to you, taking you from point A to point B and back again.

Driving/choosing AT or MT isn't a binary decision. BTW, what's the choice really got to do with whether you enjoy driving?

Being in the UK we were brought up with MT, most of us never looked at AT until AT became more sophisticated, and had some really tangible driver adaptation built into the transmission management.

I now drive AT, enjoy driving AT just as much as driving MT. I get a bit of seat time in MT rental and courtesy cars, but would not buy one as a daily driver.

BTW, I go back to driving MT with crash boxes, (no synchromesh) and 3-speed AT. The first AT which grabbed my attention was the ZF 5-speed, made so much sense coupled to a BMW V8.

The 8-speed burrs the lines between choosing AT vs. MT, IMO. We take our pick on how we want to drive, and how much we want to be involved.

Learn to drive an AT properly, explore its finer nuances, and it can be as involving to drive as a stick.

BTW: 35-years owning/driving MT, 19-years owning/driving AT.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Driving/choosing AT or MT isn't a binary decision. BTW, what's the choice really got to do with whether you enjoy driving?

Being in the UK we were brought up with MT, most of us never looked at AT until AT became more sophisticated, and had some really tangible driver adaptation built into the transmission management.

I now drive AT, enjoy driving AT just as much as driving MT. I get a bit of seat time in MT rental and courtesy cars, but would not buy one as a daily driver.

BTW, I go back to driving MT with crash boxes, (no synchromesh) and 3-speed AT. The first AT which grabbed my attention was the ZF 5-speed, made so much sense coupled to a BMW V8.

The 8-speed burrs the lines between choosing AT vs. MT, IMO. We take our pick on how we want to drive, and how much we want to be involved.

Learn to drive an AT properly, explore its finer nuances, and it can be as involving to drive as a stick.

BTW: 35-years owning/driving MT, 19-years owning/driving AT.

Glad you're enjoying your AT. Read this thread and you'll see most agree with me, but you do you. BTW, I've been driving for 50+ years now and I think I know the difference between a manual and an auto.