[rjahl]

Originally Posted by cheerio

Yes, I went under the car and just unplugged the connector.

Try a bench rig JBB and direct connect to the Transmission. With the right config INPA should find it.

Don't force a WINFkP flash until you are 100 percent sure if your connections. It may start to flash but it may then fail, leaving you non responsive TCU.

[cheerio]

I don’t currently have a spare JBB, but that’s a good suggestion.
Not too worried about bricking the gearbox with WinKFP, as I’ve made a full flash backup with the bench tool. Can always restore that if the program gets messed up.

After getting a good nights sleep, something has occurred to me:
Trying to power a transmission over 2 metres of CAT5E is probably not the smartest idea - I believe it’s about 0.1 ohm/m, and a SINGLE SOLENOID will pull about 2.4 amps. I’m not sure how many solenoids the EGS is trying to energise when woken up, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s suffering enough voltage drop to put itself to sleep…

think I’ll add a big fat DC power connector and hook up an external supply (or jump leads to the terminals in the engine bay).


Edit: Just measured the voltage at the transmission with the engine off and it's a little over 10V, lol. Just need to find some leads long enough now.

[cheerio]

Ok, fixed the power situation but it’s made no difference ://

Maybe I’ll pick up an E70 JBB and test it out on the bench.

[cheerio]

LOL, turns out I just had the PT-CAN H/L wires switched. I’m an idiot.
I’m now reading a bazillion different error codes in ISTA. Will update as I try to fix things.

[colorado.e9x]

This is exciting

[cheerio]

To eliminate some possible problems, I've decided to use E84 X1 firmware on the EGS, as the E84 is part of the same E89 family as the E90. I've flashed a different ZB# now, but not sure how to confirm if the ZB is from E84?

I was getting error messages from the gear selector (from E82 DCT); figured it could be incompatible with the 8HP... either way, it has a mechanical parking lock cable that I don't need. I think I'll pick up an E84 gear selector and try using that, as it's guaranteed to be 100% compatible.

[colorado.e9x]

I remember having to revert back to stock when I was flashing my DME with a throttle map (that didn't go smoothly) and I was able to get the correct ZB number using my VIN. Perhaps specifically the serial number. Perhaps you can do the same thing using the VIN from the donor car in which your transmission came out of?

I'm also curious to see what the cluster does especially in M mode, showing the gears and whatnot

Edit: also I'm trying to compare torque converters with all these different ZFs. Between the first gen 330, and the second gen 335s as well as 528s. Can you send a picture of the splines on your tranny? Trying to find one that'll work. I think the 335 torque converter I have now is a higher stall than the others

[cheerio]

I tried putting some ZBs and an E84 VIN into ECU Finder, all of which came up as being for the $205 (Automatic Transmission) option. Makes sense, but doesn't seem definitive, as they also seemed to work for an E70 VIN. I'll just try using it and see how it goes.

I assume you mean the cluster display in manual mode? Believe the cluster will happily display all 8 gears, as it looks like the same cluster that's in the 8HP E84.

Just picked up the E84 shifter; cost A$220 which seems reasonable. Wasn't too hard to find one, as I think the E84 was fairly popular in Aus.

View post on imgur.com

Part numbers are quite different between the DCT and 8HP shifters, even though they're physically compatible. Will give an update when I hook it up later.


As for torque converter - the 8HP and 6HP torque converters aren't cross compatible. IIRC the 8HP has an extra shaft for independently controlling the torque converter pump. Definitely makes sense that the 335i TC is higher stall, seeing as it's higher output with a turbo you want to keep spooled. Are there many E60 530i's around you? could grab a N52-appropriate TC from one of those.

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by cheerio

I tried putting some ZBs and an E84 VIN into ECU Finder, all of which came up as being for the $205 (Automatic Transmission) option. Makes sense, but doesn't seem definitive, as they also seemed to work for an E70 VIN. I'll just try using it and see how it goes.

I assume you mean the cluster display in manual mode? Believe the cluster will happily display all 8 gears, as it looks like the same cluster that's in the 8HP E84.

Just picked up the E84 shifter; cost A$220 which seems reasonable. Wasn't too hard to find one, as I think the E84 was fairly popular in Aus.

View post on imgur.com

Part numbers are quite different between the DCT and 8HP shifters, even though they're physically compatible. Will give an update when I hook it up later.


As for torque converter - the 8HP and 6HP torque converters aren't cross compatible. IIRC the 8HP has an extra shaft for independently controlling the torque converter pump. Definitely makes sense that the 335i TC is higher stall, seeing as it's higher output with a turbo you want to keep spooled. Are there many E60 530i's around you? could grab a N52-appropriate TC from one of those.

You defiantly want to locate a TC that matches or closely the calibration file you are trying to use. The TCU uses a crap load of calculations based on the TC characteristics. TCC lock up values are easy to adjust it's the torque multipliers and such that get really complex, very fast. Do you have a copy of the 8hp damos? A few years back, I posted a few.

[cheerio]

That’s interesting, I hadn’t really thought about the tuning yet.

I was (naively) hoping to grab the calibrations from a N52 F10 transmission and use them with the E84 software, but surely that wouldn’t be compatible? Or would it be?

I found the 8HP damos you posted, that will be a good starting point once I get my hands on the 8HP45 to be installed.

[Hotter]

Is there detailed documentation PDF available of 6HP or 8HP (9000 pages or so)?

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Hotter

Is there detailed documentation PDF available of 6HP or 8HP (9000 pages or so)?

Not that I know about. Years ago when we were digging into these we were lucky enough to find a 6HP and 8HP damos both version were development and you still need to rebuild them for current ROM versions.

Most of what is known , came from those early sessions.

[cheerio]

Today I modified my wiring harness to reinclude the LDM, to get rid of some of the error codes.

Have been trying out a bunch of different ZB's to see what works. There's two GKE233 HW numbers in the E89 daten, both of which appear to run just fine. Some of the data flashes throw codes for missing DME or DSC messages, but a lot of them seem fine. Presumably most of them are different calibrations for engine / chassis combinations. Maybe the two program files are for the E89 and the E84?

Anyway, I've got two stubborn codes that I can't seem to get rid of, and the transmission is stuck in park.

1st issue: CAS: Selector-lever interlock. Does anyone know what this "selector-lever interlock" actually is? I found the following in the E90 docs, which suggests it's talking about the "P/N" line on the EGS connected to CAS pin 41.

Shiftlock (selector lever interlock)
The selector lever is interlocked in the positions ”P” and ”N” by an electromagnet. The electromagnet is activated by the EGS control unit.
The selector lever interlock is engaged when selector-lever position ”P” or ”N” is detected and the ignition (terminal 15) is ON.

I reconnected the original transmission and just removed the fuse; maybe I need to disconnect it from the CAS.

2nd issue: secured status of door sensors BN2000, 1E1H) for (EGS_EL, PT-CAN) from (FRMFA, PT-CAN). This one has me worried... I know my door sensors and FRM are working, because I can load up the FRM functions, monitor the door open/closed status, and see them updating as I open and shut the doors. My car, manufactured 09/2008, seems to have FRM2, while all the 8HP-equipped E series cars were manufactured from ~2010 onwards, so would all have FRM3. I wonder if there's a difference in the door message between FRM2 and 3? Would appreciate if anyone has ideas on this, but I suppose worst case I can just buy an FRM3 and throw it in.

edit: I did have a look through the FRM2 parameters in NCS Dummy, but couldn't find anything that seemed related to the doors.

[rjahl]

Will the following reference from ZF help?

Vehicle, Transmission, engine, TC references for many models but BMW is listed.

[cheerio]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Will the following reference from ZF help?

Vehicle, Transmission, engine, TC references for many models but BMW is listed.

Don't know if this amounts to anything, but just noticed something curious - on page 15 (labeled 7), 8HP45HIS is listed for 2012-14 E92/E93 335i...

[chane_g]

Originally Posted by cheerio

1st issue: CAS: Selector-lever interlock. Does anyone know what this "selector-lever interlock" actually is? I found the following in the E90 docs, which suggests it's talking about the "P/N" line on the EGS connected to CAS pin 41.

I have checked long time ago in NCS-Dummy about CAS and remember that have AUSWERTUNG_P_HW (EVALUATE TRANSMISSION PARK/NEUTRAL SIGNAL FROM ELECTRONIC TRANSMISSION CONTROL (EGS))

So it might worth to try solve first issue.

Originally Posted by cheerio

2nd issue: secured status of door sensors BN2000, 1E1H) for (EGS_EL, PT-CAN) from (FRMFA, PT-CAN). This one has me worried... I know my door sensors and FRM are working, because I can load up the FRM functions, monitor the door open/closed status, and see them updating as I open and shut the doors. My car, manufactured 09/2008, seems to have FRM2, while all the 8HP-equipped E series cars were manufactured from ~2010 onwards, so would all have FRM3. I wonder if there's a difference in the door message between FRM2 and 3? Would appreciate if anyone has ideas on this, but I suppose worst case I can just buy an FRM3 and throw it in.

It might be good idea to try FRM3, but more importantly I suppose is to update integration level of car >2010

[cheerio]

I will have to check my wiring for the shift lock issue; in the 8HP cars there’s just a single line going from the EGS to the CAS, but in the E90 it’s a lot more complex.

I actually just installed the FRM3 now; flashed update and coded with NCS. Door issue remains. I noticed that all the available FRM3 ZBs are program files, not data files… perhaps there are message differences between them. Any idea on how to find an 8HP E84 ZB?

Edit: just realised I can at least filter out all the non-AHL ZB’s with FindECU. Maybe I can trial and error to find a working program after that.

[cheerio]

Ok, this is getting interesting. Turns out FindECU can read an “ECU Type” field for the ZBs. I went to the liberty of recording all of them:

6827064: MAX BROSE
6827065: MAX KUESTER
9240541: E90 E91 LED BASIS CHINA
9240542: E90 E91 LED XE CHINA
9240543: E90 E91 LED AHL CHINA
9286889: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED Bas
9286891: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED XE
9286893: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED AHL
9383038: E81 BASIS
9383039: E82 E88 BASIS
9383040: E81 E82 E88 XE
9383041: E81 E82 E88 AHL
9383042: MAX KUESTER
9383043: E87 BASIS
9383044: BASIS TFL
9383045: E87 E9X XE
9383046: E87 E9X AHL
9383047: E90 E91 LED BASIS
9383048: E89 E9X LED XE
9383049: E89 E9X LED AHL
9383050: MAX BROSE
9390479: E81 BASIS
9390480: E82 E88 BASIS
9390481: E81 E82 E88 XE
9390482: E81 E82 E88 AHL
9390483: MAX KUESTER
9390484: E87 BASIS
9390485: BASIS TFL
9390486: E87 E9X XE
9390487: E87 E9X AHL
9390488: E90 E91 LED BASIS
9390489: E89 E9X LED XE
9390490: E89 E9X LED AHL
9390491: MAX BROSE

There’s no E84-specific ZB, and the one currently flashed (9390487) includes option $7HW “BMW X Line”, so presumably it’s good for E84. The plot thickens…

[cheerio]

One more update for today. I'm set on trying to figure out this door message problem.
I managed to get ISTA-P to think the car was an E84.

1. change #E90_ in VO to #E84_
2. make XML vehicle order for an E84, put it on a USB stick, named by the chassis number.
3. start ISTA-P

It wanted to replace BO, CAS, DME, DSC, EKP, EPS, FRM, IHKA, JBE, KOMBI and MRS. Not unexpected. More importantly:

- Desired ZB for the EGS is 7642189
- Desired ZB for the JBE is 9364817 (current was 9187537)

After flashing the EGS with the right ZB, the door error is still present. Huh?!? We've got an E84-spec FRM, an E84-spec EGS, so why isn't it working? The door messages definitely seem to be present on the K-CAN, but the EGS is on the PT-CAN.

Perhaps the JBE isn't relaying the door messages to the PT-CAN? At first I thought this made no sense, as the JBE resends D-CAN messages to both K-CAN and PT-CAN, but it definitely makes sense that not all K-CAN messages will be forwarded to the PT-CAN - most of them wouldn't be useful there. The reverse should also be true; there's not enough bandwidth on the K-CAN for all the PT-CAN messages to be blindly forwarded to it.

So, now I suspect the FRM3 wasn't needed after all. What we actually need is either an E84 JBBF 3, or firmware for the JBBF 2 that will forward the right messages. This might be a good opportunity for me to get a CAN sniffer working, to confirm the issue before I throw more parts at it.

[colorado.e9x]

This just keeps getting more interesting. I'd imagine a can sniffer would be an incredibly useful tool for this project

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by cheerio

Ok, this is getting interesting. Turns out FindECU can read an “ECU Type” field for the ZBs. I went to the liberty of recording all of them:

6827064: MAX BROSE
6827065: MAX KUESTER
9240541: E90 E91 LED BASIS CHINA
9240542: E90 E91 LED XE CHINA
9240543: E90 E91 LED AHL CHINA
9286889: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED Bas
9286891: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED XE
9286893: E90 E91 SHURLOK LED AHL
9383038: E81 BASIS
9383039: E82 E88 BASIS
9383040: E81 E82 E88 XE
9383041: E81 E82 E88 AHL
9383042: MAX KUESTER
9383043: E87 BASIS
9383044: BASIS TFL
9383045: E87 E9X XE
9383046: E87 E9X AHL
9383047: E90 E91 LED BASIS
9383048: E89 E9X LED XE
9383049: E89 E9X LED AHL
9383050: MAX BROSE
9390479: E81 BASIS
9390480: E82 E88 BASIS
9390481: E81 E82 E88 XE
9390482: E81 E82 E88 AHL
9390483: MAX KUESTER
9390484: E87 BASIS
9390485: BASIS TFL
9390486: E87 E9X XE
9390487: E87 E9X AHL
9390488: E90 E91 LED BASIS
9390489: E89 E9X LED XE
9390490: E89 E9X LED AHL
9390491: MAX BROSE

There’s no E84-specific ZB, and the one currently flashed (9390487) includes option $7HW “BMW X Line”, so presumably it’s good for E84. The plot thickens…

Have you tried using the Kmm_ATSH.txt file in the Daten folders?

Locate the [18] section for the TCU module address
then search for the vehicle code with the automatic transmission VO number ;205

Available ZB numbers will follow.

[cheerio]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Have you tried using the Kmm_ATSH.txt file in the Daten folders?

Locate the [18] section for the TCU module address
then search for the vehicle code with the automatic transmission VO number ;205

Available ZB numbers will follow.

Thanks, I didn’t know about that - seems very handy for figuring out which ZB corresponds to which vehicle model.


Anyway, I’ve got another update for us: the door message issue is solved!

I grabbed a JBBF3R H1 from a 2011 320i at the wrecker today. Cost was a whopping $18 Tested it with both E84 and E90 software, and interestingly, the EGS was happy with either. Can now load up the EGS screen in ISTA and view various inputs under “Status of driver influence” screen. Accelerator pedal angle, brake-light switch, and driver’s door status all work as expected. Kickdown and parking brake status don’t work, strangely. Might have to look into this further.

Actually, looking at the DME (MSV80), “motor operating values”/“Accelerator-pedal position” stops at 99.22% a little before the pedal reaches the kickdown. Not sure if normal, could anyone test on their car?

Next, we’ve just got to figure out the other issue, A0B6: Selector-lever interlock. As far as I know it’s just a single hi/lo signal from the EGS, so I think it’s either a wiring issue, or there’s actually something going on with my EGS (it’s an 8HP70 running 8HP45 software, and with no oil in it, so I wouldn’t be surprised). We’re getting pretty close now!

Edit: Just measured the P/N line voltage from the transmission, it’s always high. I assume this means the EGS is requesting the interlock?