[4doorbmwpower]

what does the oil filter suction tube connect up to? does it push or pull fluid.

[4doorbmwpower]

someone explain so i can find a way around it.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower

talking to some people about that, i am brainstorming, open for ideas. maybe a replacable filter section.?

It looks like the DCT box have two filters, once in the suction funnel just like ours and another one in the transmission, which we don't have... But it might be possible to use the DCT suction filter, not too sure, since the shape of the two funnels look a little different.
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...05&hg=28&fg=15

But really, it wouldn't be so bad to run the transmission without filter if you plan on replacing the fluid often. BMW think the stock fluids are lifetime anywya.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by ajsalida

Great discussion here.

Maybe if cost was too much of an issue with a full billet pan, something like a spacer (with or without fins, not nec. billet either) could be made between tranny housing and stock pan, say 2" thick with proper extensions and fittings for filter. Same gasket footprint top and bottom.

IOW spacer just drops the existing pan down couple of inches, make sure everything matches up inside, add a whole bunch more fluid capacity.

Not a bad idea, how much clearance do we have between the transmission pan and the plastic underbody shield? And then, you have to lengthen that stupid funnel too in some way.

[4doorbmwpower]

thats what im leaning on. also we could strap on an in line filter such as this http://atiracing.com/links/pr/magnetic-filter/index.htm with the AN fittings. MY thought process is would the stock tranny fluid be under enough pressure for a filter like that to work without an oil re-circulation pump?http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...al_Cooler_Pump

[4doorbmwpower]

im watching videos and trying to figure out why that funnel is even there. it doesnt seem to connect to anything, has anyone taken their pan off themself? do you remember it actually connecting to something or just going up into the valvebody? i dont see where it actually mates with something, if we dont need it this is simple. and ill cut that plastic underbody to make this bad bear work if thats all thats in the way.

[4doorbmwpower]

So i have already developed a coarse of action for the filter. but now i must figure out wtf that tube connects to any why. here are some pictures...

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower

So i have already developed a coarse of action for the filter. but now i must figure out wtf that tube connects to any why. here are some pictures...

It really doesn't make much sense to me either. DCT has a suction pump connected to the filter, which I would think is suck the fluid pooling near the valve body and gear housing. I don't see any sort of pump in that video though.

See no. 4 item


Just a thought for the funnel, we don't have to make the pan and panel machined out from one piece of aluminum. Would imagine the funnel itself can be made separately and then screwed on to the pan, which would save a lot a material cost right there.

[4doorbmwpower]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

It really doesn't make much sense to me either. DCT has a suction pump connected to the filter, which I would think is suck the fluid pooling near the valve body and gear housing. I don't see any sort of pump in that video though.

See no. 4 item


Just a thought for the funnel, we don't have to make the pan and panel machined out from one piece of aluminum. Would imagine the funnel itself can be made separately and then screwed on to the pan, which would save a lot a material cost right there.

oh i agree if im paying for chunks of T6 aluminum i am not gonna get a 6 inch block just to destroy most of it. I would go with a screw on pipe out of aluminum i just want to know if its even necessary because i really dont think it is.. how does the fluid pickup into the tranny though if not thru that pipe?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower

oh i agree if im paying for chunks of T6 aluminum i am not gonna get a 6 inch block just to destroy most of it. I would go with a screw on pipe out of aluminum i just want to know if its even necessary because i really dont think it is.. how does the fluid pickup into the tranny though if not thru that pipe?

Try contact ZF directly to see if they can offer some technical insights.

https://www.zf.com/na/content/en/uni...ntact_form.jsp

I remember in the early days (06-07), people would inquire ZF directly about transmission type, torque rating, and fluid type. They are generally more helpful than most OE suppliers.

Let me how that goes. If not, I can try contact them directly too.

[Cloud9blue]

Youtube is proving to be helpful...

I know it is a 5HP19, an older design, but I don't think our 6HP is that much different.

The oil pump is actually built into the gear/clutch assembly.

[Cloud9blue]

Also somewhat helpful

[Cloud9blue]

4door,

looking at the 5hp videos and then the 6hp video, it looks like the suction funnel is still somewhat connected to the oil pump, which is next to the torque conveyor. In our 6hp19/21, we just cant see the oil pump since the pan opening is slightly smaller and the trans case covers the oil pump. Guess that's the reason why we have the weird funnel to pipe the oil to the oil pump.

The conclusion is that we can't just eliminate that tube...

for everyone else, this is the 6hp video we were talking about.

On another topic, it looks like we could use a lower pan too, by removing the transmission splash guard. I have seen guys on this forum removed the engine guard and have the transmission panel flew apart on highway. But it doesn't look like the same would happen in reverse if you look at the underbody of our cars. The reason is that there is no more plastic panels after the transmission. Gintani ones need to have the trans splash guard removed too, so if the M3 guys does it too, it should be safe.

[135Pats]

Yea i'd be very hesitant to delete anything from the pan. I think i'll be doing a LVL10 VB soon....it's not too expensive and shipping wouldn't take more than 2 days max. A few members here have used it with solid results but the sample size is so limited. We're entering pretty uncharted waters in terms of 6AT owners needing a substantial hardware upgrades.

[4doorbmwpower]

oookay so we need the tube. (im deployed so bandwidth is killing my ability to research via videos) now i have to think of how to incorporate it. Also 6061 T6 aluminum is pretty expensive shit lol. I am talking to a few machinists to see if it is doable. ill update as necessary should hear back from some of them durring my sleep cycle. till then keep the brains working. I am right now thinking all we would need is a tube (plastic will work) with a removable filter at the end of it. (if you really wanted a filter) i could make it so its machined to accept and "hold on" a filter while bolted to the car. with a simple round indentation in the bottom of the pan. then the sumped oil will recirculate up thru the engine that way. Anyone see any engineering flaw in my thought process.. again this is IF we have to run a filter. The tube is simple... kinda...

[Cloud9blue]

Btw, 4door, found this. Much better than digging through the videos.

Originally Posted by 4doorbmwpower

oookay so we need the tube. (im deployed so bandwidth is killing my ability to research via videos) now i have to think of how to incorporate it. Also 6061 T6 aluminum is pretty expensive shit lol. I am talking to a few machinists to see if it is doable. ill update as necessary should hear back from some of them durring my sleep cycle. till then keep the brains working. I am right now thinking all we would need is a tube (plastic will work) with a removable filter at the end of it. (if you really wanted a filter) i could make it so its machined to accept and "hold on" a filter while bolted to the car. with a simple round indentation in the bottom of the pan. then the sumped oil will recirculate up thru the engine that way. Anyone see any engineering flaw in my thought process.. again this is IF we have to run a filter. The tube is simple... kinda...

Think I got what you are thinking. Should work as intended as long as the filter can be secured onto the pan. Things we still need to figure out. Good news is that the pan gasket and o-ring for the filter funnel can be bought separately.

1. Find a suitable filter. Anyone got a used transmission pan w/ the filter on it? It would be great take the thing apart to see what size does the factory ones use. But I think your original idea of having a inline filter on the stock lines might be a easier and more reliable setup. We just need to make sure the pressure drop is minimal.

2. Funnel, I am still leaning toward having it made from aluminum. Things get pretty hot in there, don't really want the plastic to have any sort creep failure.

[4doorbmwpower]

Cloud9, I agree, THANK YOU for that picture. it is worth 1000 words and in this case 1000hours of bandwith constrained video watching.

As for the ideas. If i were home i would buy a new pan drop mine and frankinstein it up. but im not. So this R&D may be a little longer than expected. I have some good friends im talking to for the machining parts. and an aluminum pipe to replace the plastic would be simple. and cheap pipe is cheap. billet is not. lol Sourcing good 6061 T6 billet aluminum (what im going with) for a decent price will be half of the battle. HOWEVER i do have some family sources that may be of some assistance I will contact them.

[4doorbmwpower]

now that i understand that i need to know how much suction is actually created, because increasing the length by an inch of that tube may affect the pickup and i want to make sure (since ill be testing on my car lol) that it actually creates enough suction to pick up a longer tube. I have mapped out a proprietary oil filter idea. Any math wiz's out there? i need to know if a small increase in volume (2 inches of pipe with a 1 inch internal diameter) would drastically affect the suction of the tranny oil system. Also i think my filter will be less restrictive.

[Cloud9blue]

4door, I am quite sure an extra inch or two would not hurt the suction at all, given that you keep the diameter as same as before. While I don't know how to do the exact math of this from the top of my head, I can get a qualitative assessment of it by thinking of this way.

inch Hg is a unit that is defined as the pressure exerted by a circular column of mercury of 1 inch in height at earth's gravity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch_of_mercury). 2 in Hg equals to just less than 1 psi. I am sure the suction created by the oil pump is not as strong as vacuum, but transmission oil is also a lot lighter than mercury. So I doubt the pressure drop at such length would be more than just a 2-3 psi.

Btw, how's the progress on this? Anything we can help with at the moment? I was thinking it might not be a bad idea to contact some shop that is very experienced with this platform or BMW in general (VAC Motorsports for example).

[TurboBimmer]

I'm a bit late to the party. But if we can just get back to the tranny cooler ideas for a second. Even if a dedicated cooler wouldn't lower transmission oil temps but just keep them steady, it would still allow us to get rid of the heat exchanger. Which would eliminate the problem that the tranny oil heats up engine coolant toa point where power gets cut by the DME on racetracks. Which is in my book the biggest problem!!

As a next step we could then even get the 6MT radiator from Mishimoto to keep coolant temps further under control.

Isn't that what we are shooting for? And what Governor seems to have achieved?

[4doorbmwpower]

The tranny cooler idea branched into this because there is no feasible way to build a tranny cooler without destroying your pressure. You CAN do it if you want by tapping two AN holes and custom welding a tranny oil recirculation pump to a SS line running to a cooler core up behind your diver side wheel well..

In the mean time i wanted to make this product for everyone because it will be much easier of a solution for the everyday guy...

Cloud9; I have made contact with a few different machinists and i have a couple in the family that are working up some ideas, i have the filter idea figured out and have a company that is willing to work with me. From the middle east its kinda hard doing this all via email but it is going. I actually will know more late this week after my 3d renders go to the machinist. Remember the HPF intake manifold build up.. this car throws wrenches in everyones plans... but its coming along.

[Cloud9blue]

Sounds good. Keep us posted.