[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

my headers are definitely placebo effect

edit 900 posts..whatchu know about that!

Yeah, mine too. 900 = w00t

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Mike.

my headers are definitely placebo effect

edit 900 posts..whatchu know about that!

and you have like 700 posts less than me but only 2 less rep points, I guess I just post useless shit all day

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by chris82

and you have like 700 posts less than me but only 2 less rep points, I guess I just post useless shit all day

I accumulated most of my rep points when I would just post .gifs all the time haha

[justpete]

Ya know, that's what I like about this place, it's educational.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by Mike.

I accumulated most of my rep points when I would just post .gifs all the time haha

I like to post memes when people's car's f*ck up

[LaserPower]

Originally Posted by justpete

Titanium? It's cheaper to have a custom thinwall 304SS (or 321SS if turbo) exhaust made.

Free flow intake, three stage manifold, offroad tune, headers, race exhaust, cams all produce real measurable power. A race clutch and LSD will get it to the road faster and less will be lost to windup if the driveline is made rigid with the correct mounts. What improvements are placebo effect?

Oh yeah, forgot to mention it's possible to reduce the weight by four to five hundred pounds without resorting to CF body panels other than hood and bootlid. A CF roof doesn't save any weight but a sunroof delete does. Most of the weight savings in changing the hood and bootlid over to CF covered FRP is the loss of all the hardware for the latches and remote opening mechanisms by replacing them all with locking Aerocatches. Getting rid of the carpet and the really heavy underlayment saves a surprising amount of weight by replacing it all with Koolmat and CF/Nomex honeycomb floorpans. There's lighter batteries and gutting the trunk as well as removing the back seat. Changing the front seats to fiberglass shell race seats will save anywhere from sixty to seventy pounds, nearly a hundred if the SRS is removed in its entirety. The headliner and the pointless overhead consoles can come out along with all that heavy copper wiring as can the telematics unit in the trunk along with the pointless sharkfin antenna. And the car is still perfectly legal, complete with air conditioning. Lighter wheels and tires is a given.

I'd like to think that if we are talking about 50 hp or more increase then yeah sure. But a 10-20 hp increase is not really that noticeable in reality, A dyno tolerance can be close to 10 hp. A better driver will be able to easily offset the minor hp difference. To me for that specific car is is not really worth the while to try increase the engine output. OTOH it is quite fat so chopping down weight is easier.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by LaserPower

I'd like to think that if we are talking about 50 hp or more increase then yeah sure. But a 10-20 hp increase is not really that noticeable in reality, A dyno tolerance can be close to 10 hp. A better driver will be able to easily offset the minor hp difference. To me for that specific car is is not really worth the while to try increase the engine output. OTOH it is quite fat so chopping down weight is easier.

Um, I'm at about 40rwhp increase and looking at about half that again with cams. Regearing the diff, going to solid mounts throughout the driveline, etc. makes the car much quicker than you'd think. And killing the weight is nowhere near easier.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by chris82

I like to post memes when people's car's f*ck up

Fair enough, that deserves a +1 in my book

Originally Posted by justpete

Ya know, that's what I like about this place, it's educational.

Pete..when you get the cams put in how are you telling if there are actually gains.. butt dyno?

I know we've been over this, but as far as tuning if the cams need tuning, who will do this..AA?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Mike.

Fair enough, that deserves a +1 in my book

+1

Originally Posted by Mike.

Pete..when you get the cams put in how are you telling if there are actually gains.. butt dyno?

DynoDynamic with measurement of oil temp, inlet air temp, and air pressure for each run before and after.

Originally Posted by Mike.

I know we've been over this, but as far as tuning if the cams need tuning, who will do this..AA?

No tuning necessary I'm told, the increase should come from DME adaptation. It'll be interesting to see if we can find the DME parameters for the cams and code them to match the regrind and thereby gain any extra power. That'll come later, up next is the race exhaust and some UltraRacing chassis braces.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

+1



DynoDynamic with measurement of oil temp, inlet air temp, and air pressure for each run before and after.



No tuning necessary I'm told, the increase should come from DME adaptation. It'll be interesting to see if we can find the DME parameters for the cams and code them to match the regrind and thereby gain any extra power. That'll come later, up next is the race exhaust and some UltraRacing chassis braces.

can you PM me info about the solid drivetrain you just posted about, the benefits and all that jazz. Thank ya!

[hassmaschine]

pete, I need to get you those parameters. you definitely should retune it. the total duration, lift, and ramp rate are all specifically defined, and are part of how the "model" of the engine functions.

it really needs to know the exact position of the valve at all times, the adaptations are more limited than that. I think it will "work" but it won't be optimized. I really hope it doesn't end up being disappointing!

[hassmaschine]

also, if your dyno tolerance is 10whp then you should use a different dyno. 10whp is certainly noticeable.

adding 30-40whp to a car that makes ~200hp stock is actually pretty good without any internal mods.

[LaserPower]

Originally Posted by justpete

Um, I'm at about 40rwhp increase and looking at about half that again with cams. Regearing the diff, going to solid mounts throughout the driveline, etc. makes the car much quicker than you'd think. And killing the weight is nowhere near easier.

That's fair enough. In a way it is all about energy, money, and risk one is willing to put in right? In a way if one does not want to get rid of things that are somewhat useful to lose weight, I can understand that.
I did not want to go through all the troubles so I replaced the entire car lol.

[LaserPower]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

also, if your dyno tolerance is 10whp then you should use a different dyno. 10whp is certainly noticeable.

also, adding 30-40whp to a car that makes ~200hp stock is actually pretty good without any internal mods.

Depends on the weight of the car too. A lightweight car would see a greater benefit of power increase. For something that is more than 3300lb I don't think it is that significant. Loss in the straight line can be made up in the corners.

[hassmaschine]

a RWD, non-turbo, manual E90 is actually not all that heavy. it's actually right around 3200-3300lbs without the driver.

[Tom Droze]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

a RWD, non-turbo, manual E90 is actually not all that heavy. it's actually right around 3200-3300lbs without the driver.

My automatic e92 with non power seats, and a sunroof weighed in at 3,580.pounds with me and and a full tank of gas. I weigh 165 pounds.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by LaserPower

That's fair enough. In a way it is all about energy, money, and risk one is willing to put in right? In a way if one does not want to get rid of things that are somewhat useful to lose weight, I can understand that.
I did not want to go through all the troubles so I replaced the entire car lol.

No worries. If you're not heading down the road to racecar and only want a street machine for straight line runs then a 328i is a poor choice, no argument there. I don't care about the changes to the car for weight reduction as it's basically a street legal track car and my daily driver just to get between trackdays really.

Certainly can't fault you for not wanting to gut your car, that is a helluva lotta trouble. Ask me how I know...

[justpete]

Originally Posted by LaserPower

Depends on the weight of the car too. A lightweight car would see a greater benefit of power increase. For something that is more than 3300lb I don't think it is that significant. Loss in the straight line can be made up in the corners.

Thought I'd note I was told the tolerance on the DynoDynamic is less than 5hp, fwiw. And the car as it stands now scales at 3264lbs curb wet. We'll easily get it down to under 3000lbs so it'll have the same hp and weight as an E46 M3 CSL (I think).

The torque curve and gearing is what matters rather than just a peak horsepower number as we all know. I've mentioned it before but there's a book called Fast Car Physics that's invaluable for making estimates of what matters and what doesn't as well as how "technical" a track may be. It's not complicated and seems nicely accessible.

[Tom Droze]

Originally Posted by justpete

Certainly can't fault you for not wanting to gut your car, that is a helluva lotta trouble. Ask me how I know...

Okay, I'll bite! How do you know?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

pete, I need to get you those parameters. you definitely should retune it. the total duration, lift, and ramp rate are all specifically defined, and are part of how the "model" of the engine functions.

it really needs to know the exact position of the valve at all times, the adaptations are more limited than that. I think it will "work" but it won't be optimized. I really hope it doesn't end up being disappointing!

Thanks, whenever you get a chance, no hurry. Won't be disappointed because any increase is a good thing. And we know by correcting the plant model in the feedback system the target will be improved so we should see yet another increase. If it ends up yielding twenty horse or so at the rear wheel that'll be more than good enough for me. It'll be a lot less expensive for the next person since they won't have to buy new cams from the dealer to have reground. My stock cams will go to Todd after you index them as cores for the next set when he gets the dyno information and decides to put them on his site.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Thanks, whenever you get a chance, no hurry. Won't be disappointed because any increase is a good thing. And we know by correcting the plant model in the feedback system the target will be improved so we should see yet another increase. If it ends up yielding twenty horse or so at the rear wheel that'll be more than good enough for me. It'll be a lot less expensive for the next person since they won't have to buy new cams from the dealer to have reground. My stock cams will go to Todd after you index them as cores for the next set when he gets the dyno information and decides to put them on his site.

so at the crank theyll add about 30 hp (potentially)

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Tom Droze

Okay, I'll bite! How do you know?

lol

cuz I'm in the process of getting it planned and done. Lots of details keep cropping up as it gets closer to getting done. The Koolmat material isn't cheap and it isn't easy to install so it takes a lot of planning. The Dragonplate CF/Nomex honeycomb is crazy expensive and it's difficult to mount as you don't just drill through it for a bolt, etc. Gutting the trunk includes getting rid of the CA antenna and figuring how to code it out, we don't currently know if that's even possible. Somebody in the coding subforum helped me understand what has to be done to remove the sharkfin antenna and the telematics unit, not trivial. We may remove the radio and all that goes with it, replacing the bluetooth function with an aftermarket module, haven't decided yet. The PLX gauge location hasn't been decided and we're not even sure how we're going to go about dealing with the roof and all that, not simple, and the coding of a Euro overhead console for the front is a complete unknown as well. We can remove superfluous insulation under the rear seat and inside the doors and cut off lots of extraneous tabs and mounting points that go unused as well as removing lots of joint putty, etc. but it starts to become difficult to predict how miserable the car will be to drive in the summer when stuck in traffic. Really don't want to get to racecar temps but at least the secondary cats will be gone so that's one less heat load. Going to be a long iterative process I think.