[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Spoolin1

The 6466 is a BAD MF turbo and what my S2000 is currently getting ugraded to. I'll be pushing upwards of 1000 whp with it when the engine gets built by Inline Pro.

agreed, here is a log of me hitting 19-20psi at 2500 or so, lost traction so I let off lol! I was over boosting a bit, few adjustments to make.

[Odan.be]

Originally Posted by MM Performance

ummm... 'A' above is not true in my opinion. You will have more lag with 650whp hybrid turbos. You have some logs to prove otherwise? Stock turbos will hit 15psi during spool up at 2300rpm, the largest stock frame hybrid turbos that make that kind of power will hit it by 3300-3400rpm, RBs hit 15psi at 3000-3100rpm.

wouldn't a ball bearing instead of journall bearing help for quicker spool ?
Also, bigger hybrids might build boost a tad later, but they do move more air. even at lower rpms.. doesn't this compensate ?

I remember seeing some dynos from hybrids ( doesn't matter what brand) and overal torque figures where above OEM hairdrayers. Even at lower RPMS ...?

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by Odan.be

wouldn't a ball bearing instead of journall bearing help for quicker spool ?
Also, bigger hybrids might build boost a tad later, but they do move more air. even at lower rpms.. doesn't this compensate ?

I remember seeing some dynos from hybrids ( doesn't matter what brand) and overal torque figures where above OEM hairdrayers. Even at lower RPMS ...?

spool to 15psi numbers above for single turbos I'm pretty sure are ball bearing turbos. Others numbers quoted are from logs posted in this forum for upgraded hybrids and stock turbos, search and you will find several.

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by robc1976

agreed, here is a log of me hitting 19-20psi at 2500 or so, lost traction so I let off lol! I was over boosting a bit, few adjustments to make.

I can't see the rpm axis in your pics? also is this in 4th gear? All the numbers I am quoting for all the different turbos are 4th gear runs from 0 boost low rpm going all the way into boost.

[Odan.be]

Originally Posted by MM Performance

spool to 15psi numbers above for single turbos I'm pretty sure are ball bearing turbos. Others numbers quoted are from logs posted in this forum for upgraded hybrids and stock turbos, search and you will find several.

I mean.
You can get RB turbos with or without Ball bearing.
Suposedly the ball bearing options should make the turbo spool faster, is this true or not ?

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by Odan.be

I mean.
You can get RB turbos with or without Ball bearing.
Suposedly the ball bearing options should make the turbo spool faster, is this true or not ?

I'm not aware of hybrids with ball bearings for N54, but if it were available yes it would spool a bit faster.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by MM Performance

I'm not aware of hybrids with ball bearings for N54, but if it were available yes it would spool a bit faster.

Yep, its an option their turbos.

[MM Performance]

Originally Posted by csu87

Yep, its an option their turbos.

is this on the 15T regular RBs or on the new EVO set? you sure this option is for N54 and not N55?

[924er]

Originally Posted by Riceball777

The s2000 has a very strong engine. My stock block s2000 makes over 600whp and has over 120,000 miles on it. And it's been turboed since 70,000 miles. No ones builds the s2000 engine at under 700or 800whp. I'm not going to sell the s2000. Im keeping it forever. Im just get I old and I need something bigger and more comfertable and with high class. As for the 335i I plan to keep it as stock appearing and comfertable as possible and I plan to get all the bolt on engine/power mods available. Which does not seem like there's very many.

I'll probably end up swapping turbos too with this car knowing myself. Are there any other stock appearing turbo options out there besides the rb turbos that can make more power?

Idk if anyone added that a piggyback isn't the only available option on this platform. There is Cobb accessport which I'm sure u already know about and it's an actual flash that is more complicated than jb4 piggyback. You can get custom dynotuned and all that. Just wanted to throw that in there cuz no one mentioned it

[Milan]

As another fellow high HP car owner...save yourself the time and money and don't get the 335. While the motor and tranny are stout, everything connected to them is poorly designed.

The injectors are a fail design, VANOS solenoids fail, stock turbos rattle making your car sound like a POS, mods are expensive, the tuning community is 10 years behind the rest of the car modding world.

If I had to do it again I would probably just buy a CTS-V2 and never look back. Only reason I ended up with the 335 in the first place is because of the AWD and I didn't want to look like a boy racer with an Evo X.

Having owned boosted Civics in the past its going to be hard for you to adjust to how unreliable and overpriced everything for the BMW is.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Riceball777

I have a turbo 600whp flex fuel s2000. I'm about to buy a used 335i 6 speed. I'm a huge gear head I do all the work on my cars my self including clutch job and even building my own engines. but I'm new to the bmw world. Please educate me on some things.

1. What the hell does fbo stand for. I see it everywhere on this forums and I still can't figue it out.

Full Bolt On. Usually used in the context of stock frame turbo cars. Generally understood to mean intake, intercooler, downpipes.

2 dme? I'm guessing This is the ecu. Why do you call it a dme and what does that stand for.

Yep. In our case it's a Bosch control unit. VERY intelligent and substantially more capable than what most folks in the JDM marketplace are used to for factory control systems. But not without its shortcomings, of course.

3. I find this crazy but after all the reading I been doing here am I right that you guys don't actually Dyno tune your cars. Your just run after market piggy back ecus like the jb4 and proceed and just run pre made maps and these thing auto tune themselves? Is that even safe?

I've dyno tuned my car numerous times from a 370WHP pump gas car to the 617 it put down recently. Can't speak for others, suppose it's a matter of your power goals. If shooting for say 400WHP, provided you have the hard parts the tuning is relatively easy.

4. I want to run a flex fuel setup like I have on my s2000. With my s2000 you just buy a $60 ethanol sensor and install it inline to the fuel return and run 1 wire to the ems. Get tune on 91 octane then e85. The ecu will blend the maps. And boost, timing and fuel trims are all automatically adjusted to how ever much ethonolsensor you have in the tank

How Iis this done and can it be done on the 335? Should I get the jb4 or proceed v5 for this? I have also read that these cars can't run straight e85 for some reason and muse runs e60-e70 or lower. Is this true and why is this? Especially when I see you guys run the walbro 450 pump. That pump is good for over 700whp on e85 in my s2000.

Don't bother with a PROcede. Just don't. With regards to tuning i'd suggest a piggyback (JB4, AEM, PS1000, your call) stacked with a dedicated flash tune (MHD, Cobb, BBflash, again your call). I run straight corn on my N54 all day, but it requires substantially more flow on the low pressure side, and relief for the high pressure side. The former comes in the form of an upgrade LPFP, the latter comes in the form of supplemental port injection. With a properly setup low pressure side and port fuel, we have enough headroom for 800+WHP.

5 I have read that you guys don't have to swap injectors when going for more power. Why is that?

Piezos baby. HUGE headroom and ability to move fuel, it's the injection window which gets tricky. The HPFP is what hurts us, necessitating port fuel. The actual injectors are outstanding, though they are not as reliable as we'd like.

Hi. Answered your questions above. Welcome to the platform.

Sounds like you want big power (who doesn't). Ditch the stock turbos, grab whatever single kit you prefer, and get a 62-64mm on it.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Milan

As another fellow high HP car owner...save yourself the time and money and don't get the 335. While the motor and tranny are stout, everything connected to them is poorly designed.

The injectors are a fail design, VANOS solenoids fail, stock turbos rattle making your car sound like a POS, mods are expensive, the tuning community is 10 years behind the rest of the car modding world.

If I had to do it again I would probably just buy a CTS-V2 and never look back. Only reason I ended up with the 335 in the first place is because of the AWD and I didn't want to look like a boy racer with an Evo X.

Having owned boosted Civics in the past its going to be hard for you to adjust to how unreliable and overpriced everything for the BMW is.

WOW...lot of misinformation

Injectors, can handle 100% E85 stock and handle 650ish if not more by themselves abd upwards of 900whp with secondary rail.

Stock turbos, anyone serious about modding is going to ditch those and they can be properly adjusted.

CTS-V....you will be looking at a lot of 335i bumpers.

10 years behind? Um.....platform isn't 10 years old please explain what makes the 335 tuning world "10 years" behind.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by robc1976

WOW...lot of misinformation

Injectors, can handle 100% E85 stock and handle 650ish if not more by themselves abd upwards of 900whp with secondary rail.

Stock turbos, anyone serious about modding is going to ditch those and they can be properly adjusted.

CTS-V....you will be looking at a lot of 335i bumpers.

10 years behind? Um.....platform isn't 10 years old please explain what makes the 335 tuning world "10 years" behind.

The injectors have been revised 12 times by BMW. I don't know of any 650 whp 335's running 100% E85 without some secondary form of injection. I don't think you can honestly say 12 revisions constitutes a good design.

The CTS-V2 stock is faster than basically every FBO 335i out there. With any mods it's not even a comparison. Not to mention its LS based so you can fall on that car with a screwdriver and gain 20 whp.

I agree that no one serious about making power will be on stock turbos, but aftermarket turbos are really expensive for the minimal HP gain and single turbo kits are retardedly expensive.

The tuning community is light years behind other platforms, the fact that the JB4 exists in the first place is proof of that. What other platform do you know that uses a piggyback still? People are still figuring out load based tuning. Not all the tables are available to even edit yet.

Throwing 6 more injectors at the car and 2 more fuel pumps to run E85 isn't really a great solution IMO.

[135Pats]

The car runs out of high pressure pump, not injector.

If you are arguing that an LS is a superior motor, I wouldn't argue. It's probably the best power motor ever.

Most non big displacement V8 cars making 800+WHP on stock blocks are running complete stand-alones because their factory electronics suck. I don't see how that puts the N54 "10 years behind". It's not like 2Js or EJs are rolling around with factory electronics.

The 54 has plenty of problems but if the only measuring stick is an LSx, then this is academic.

[Spoolin1]

Originally Posted by Odan.be

wouldn't a ball bearing instead of journall bearing help for quicker spool ?
Also, bigger hybrids might build boost a tad later, but they do move more air. even at lower rpms.. doesn't this compensate ?

I remember seeing some dynos from hybrids ( doesn't matter what brand) and overal torque figures where above OEM hairdrayers. Even at lower RPMS ...?

JB turbos spool about the same as BB turbos. Maybe only a couple hundred rpm difference. Where BB turbos shine is during gear shifts. A BB turbo will recover much fast than a JB turbo when going through the gears but if you can shift fast enough and keep the turbo spooled, it's still negligible between the two.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The car runs out of high pressure pump, not injector.

If you are arguing that an LS is a superior motor, I wouldn't argue. It's probably the best power motor ever.

Most non big displacement V8 cars making 800+WHP on stock blocks are running complete stand-alones because their factory electronics suck. I don't see how that puts the N54 "10 years behind". It's not like 2Js or EJs are rolling around with factory electronics.

The 54 has plenty of problems but if the only measuring stick is an LSx, then this is academic.

I think our biggest down fall DME wise is that we have no BIG companies to play with it. We are relying on individual contributions to discover tables and a few tuners to play with them.


until then we do have to rely on piggy backs to make any sort of big power. Not only that but the short comings of the stock WG solenoid and sensors are very limiting when you start thinking about using the DME as a stand alone. The newer cars are becoming so advanced and harder to crack it just takes a while to get everything you need.

I use to think the AEM EMS V2 was a supercomputer until i saw whats really behind the 220+ tables we have discovered, not to mention the hundreds and maybe even thousands of tables we have yet to discover. The AEM is childs play considering. For a tuner to take all that in is ridiculous and i highly doubt we will ever see the day that a tuner understands and alters 100%. Until then we address the issues of what we have at hand and we at least know where to find them.

[Riceball777]

Just pick her up today. Mint condition clean title 2007 with 92,000 miles with every available option and package and 100% stock and of course it's a manual transmission. $14,300. What do you guys think.

I love the car so far beside how butt slow it is. I know it's stock but I was expecting it to be a little faster. I already have a jb4, vrsf castles downpipes and a 7 inch vrsf intercooler ordered.







Of course I'm also keeping my s2000

[jyamona]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

I think our biggest down fall DME wise is that we have no BIG companies to play with it. We are relying on individual contributions to discover tables and a few tuners to play with them.


until then we do have to rely on piggy backs to make any sort of big power. Not only that but the short comings of the stock WG solenoid and sensors are very limiting when you start thinking about using the DME as a stand alone. The newer cars are becoming so advanced and harder to crack it just takes a while to get everything you need.

I use to think the AEM EMS V2 was a supercomputer until i saw whats really behind the 220+ tables we have discovered, not to mention the hundreds and maybe even thousands of tables we have yet to discover. The AEM is childs play considering. For a tuner to take all that in is ridiculous and i highly doubt we will ever see the day that a tuner understands and alters 100%. Until then we address the issues of what we have at hand and we at least know where to find them.

There are a few thousand tables in there total. It's no fun. Haha. Also, you need some VANOS. I'll send you my "super-spooler" tables when your car is back on the road.

[Torgus]

Nice S2000.

You should REALLY get a backend flash to go with the JB4. No reason not to. Either go the free flash route or buy the MHD android software. All the new tables and future will be flash based. Do not get a cobb. Outdated.

Downpipes, IC, and tune you will be a lot happier with the car. Stock they are not that impressive power wise.

[Jaronbwall]

Dammnnnn... you only paid $14,300?! That's a steal
s2000 is the full time track car now

[Riceball777]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Nice S2000.

You should REALLY get a backend flash to go with the JB4. No reason not to. Either go the free flash route or buy the MHD android software. All the new tables and future will be flash based. Do not get a cobb. Outdated.

Downpipes, IC, and tune you will be a lot happier with the car. Stock they are not that impressive power wise.

Can you please explain to me what a backend flash is and how this would help me?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Riceball777

Can you please explain to me what a backend flash is and how this would help me?

I didn't write this but it is accurate:

The JB4 can only take you so far. As you push more power and/or start using meth/e85...the fuel demands change. These changes can not be dialed in properly thru the JB4. While there are added benefits to the back-end flash, the most important aspect is fueling. Once your car is flashed, the JB4 is used primarily to change maps/control boost. Everything else is dialed right into the DME.

Where the jb4 is utilized is ease of boost adjustment on the fly, gear based boost limits, no lift shifting/2 step, helping with wastegate rattle, gauges, tuning/code reading/logging with a smart phone, expanded E85 flex fueling so your mix can vary more, superior methanol integration and lean failsafes, that sort of thing.

As all you need is an inexpensive cable and you can flash the car for free you should really do it in my opinion.