[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Aren't these sale figures proof positive that most BMWs are no longer driver's cars aimed at enthusiasts? Toyota sells a lot of cars. And Toyotas are about as far as you can get from fun cars. There seems to be a correlation between huge sales numbers and less engaging vehicles.

You left out price...that's another factor in why Toyota sells more cars than BMW..

Ford sells a lot of Mustangs...are they less engaging because of that?

I also take it you've never actually driven a Toyota before.

[GMe90]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You left out price...that's another factor in why Toyota sells more cars than BMW..

Ford sells a lot of Mustangs...are they less engaging because of that?

I also take it you've never actually driven a Toyota before.

I owned a Toyota before. Two in fact. Definitely not an enthusiast car. And they can actually be surprisingly pricey.

As far as Mustangs go, I am talking about overall sales figures for the company as a whole. Most companies have a model in their lineup that is somewhat geared toward enthusiasts. BMW is turning into one of those companies. It has sporty vehicles, no question about that. But it also produces a lot of cars that are far from their "ultimate driving machine" moniker.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by GMe90

I owned a Toyota before. Two in fact. Definitely not an enthusiast car. And they can actually be surprisingly pricey.

As far as Mustangs go, I am talking about overall sales figures for the company as a whole. Most companies have a model in their lineup that is somewhat geared toward enthusiasts. BMW is turning into one of those companies. It has sporty vehicles, no question about that. But it also produces a lot of cars that are far from their "ultimate driving machine" moniker.

True, I thought you were just assuming that if something sold in high numbers then it must mean it's generic and dull to drive which may or may not be true.

I've driven a few new BMW's and while they aren't as engaging as previous cars (I blame largely the EPS, which I'd imagine will only get better with time) they're still pretty fun to drive compared to offerings from Mercedes and Audi.

These are just the plain vanilla cars I'm talking about here not each company's respective performance variants.