[2Times]

I'm in for the group buy... can you put me on the list?

[braddman]

Can I ask a stupid question, this is just using the stock fuel system + a return and inline fuel pump?

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by 2Times

I'm in for the group buy... can you put me on the list?

But how many times do you want to be put on the list?

[Pure Turbos]

Originally Posted by 2Times

I'm in for the group buy... can you put me on the list?

Out of the posted 11 members on the group buy list, we have 4 paid in full. Once all 11 are paid in full, the group buy will be officially over, and these turbos will begin the build process. In the meantime, if you would like to get added to the list, call, pay and you're on. So there's still a chance to get in if you'd like to lock in this one-time discounted pricing.

We have had 4 others call in and pay, so there's really more like 15 on the list and 8 paid in full.

If you're on the list, and need to pay:

Call the shop @ 760-721-7669, talk to Carol or Chuck to pay.
or
Email carol@pureturbos.com or charles@pureturbos.com

Originally Posted by braddman

Can I ask a stupid question, this is just using the stock fuel system + a return and inline fuel pump?

The AT car dyno sheet posted had a stock fuel system + an inline pump (no return).

[jellish]

Still no word on what these are doing on 93 for a dd? I'm not looking to run meth and we don't have ethanol here.

[Lambobimmer]

Originally Posted by neuroclast

Still no word on what these are doing on 93 for a dd? I'm not looking to run meth and we don't have ethanol here.

I will get my Pure Turbos on Friday and my first tune will be on 93.

I plan to have Ken from Wedge build me a custom 93 tune using MHD and Maxboost. I should have some results within the next few weeks.

[dbworld4k]

Originally Posted by Lambobimmer

I will get my Pure Turbos on Friday and my first tune will be on 93.

I plan to have Ken from Wedge build me a custom 93 tune using MHD and Maxboost. I should have some results within the next few weeks.

Can't wait to see your results. I'm already saving my pennies for these or Hexons as an XMas gift to myself :P

[jellish]

Originally Posted by Lambobimmer

I will get my Pure Turbos on Friday and my first tune will be on 93.

I plan to have Ken from Wedge build me a custom 93 tune using MHD and Maxboost. I should have some results within the next few weeks.

Awesome! Keep us updated.

I'm trying to decide if I should do these or a larger top mount single.

Do these require anything else, or is it a complete kit?

[Lambobimmer]

Originally Posted by neuroclast

Awesome! Keep us updated.

I'm trying to decide if I should do these or a larger top mount single.

Do these require anything else, or is it a complete kit?

I am FBO and will also use VTT inlets. I don't expect to see anything more than 500whp. Probably closer to 475whp on just 93.

[PR3CI5N]

Originally Posted by neuroclast

I'm trying to decide if I should do these or a larger top mount single.

What is your power goal? These turbos have the same amount of low end torque that stock turbos have and pull hard to redline like a single turbo kit. Single turbo cars need an anti-lag system to build boost at low RPM's while I have my 3rd gear boost limited to 19psi or else I light up my tires at 50mph.

Originally Posted by neuroclast

Do these require anything else, or is it a complete kit?

Pure stage 2 are stock housing turbos so you can simply remove your stock turbos and install these. You'll want to replace your stock inlets with upgraded inlets such as RB or TFT (large price difference but I'm a big fan of my TFT inlet kit). The stock inlets are very restrictive and won't let these turbos shine.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N

What is your power goal? These turbos have the same amount of low end torque that stock turbos have and pull hard to redline like a single turbo kit. Single turbo cars need an anti-lag system to build boost at low RPM's while I have my 3rd gear boost limited to 19psi or else I light up my tires at 50mph.

Same torque through the midrange - very much possible. Same low-end (1500-2500) torque as stock - Impossible. Physics says so.

Single turbo being laggier that twins - also not true. A big single-scroll single turbo capable of making more power than the twins - of course it will be laggier than the twins. A properly-sized twin-scroll single turbo with short exhaust manifold runners - just as responsive as twins that produce equivalent power.

The common single scroll high mount 'single turbo kits' getting around with long runners and around 270 degrees worth of bends per runner are giving single turbo setups a bad name! They're more worried about looking cool with V-bands and high mount than performance!

[PR3CI5N]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Same torque through the midrange - very much possible. Same low-end (1500-2500) torque as stock - Impossible. Physics says so.

Single turbo being laggier that twins - also not true. A big single-scroll single turbo capable of making more power than the twins - of course it will be laggier than the twins. A properly-sized twin-scroll single turbo with short exhaust manifold runners - just as responsive as twins that produce equivalent power.

Stock turbos spool around 2200rpm. These hit target at 3200rpm which is much quicker than any ST kits available for the N54.

Obviously a single turbo can make more top end power than twins but these can make around 700whp which is PLENTY for most people.

[PR3CI5N]

Here is a dyno graph comparing my car with twins to Terry's@BMS 135i Motiv ST. Pure is kicking the ST'a ass down low and is equally strong up top.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N

Obviously a single turbo can make more top end power than twins but these can make 700whp which is PLENTY for most people.

Some could but that's not the point I'm trying to make. There are advantages to moving to a proper single turbo setups even in the 500hp power range and the right turbo setup will spool the same as the equivalent set of twins.

I do agree that bolt-in twin upgrades are the easiest way to go though. Was just trying to say that twins aren't better than proper singles in any way other than the ease of just swapping them over.

[PR3CI5N]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Some could but that's not the point I'm trying to make. There are advantages to moving to a proper single turbo setups even in the 500hp power range and the right turbo setup will spool the same as the equivalent set of twins.

On this platform no one spends the large amount of money it cost for a ST kit to only have 500whp so that's irrelevant. The big turbo cars that are making 630-800whp do not hit peak power until after 4500rpm which is why Terry has recently designed a rolling antilag system.

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I do agree that bolt-in twin upgrades are the easiest way to go though. Was just trying to say that twins aren't better than proper singles in any way other than the ease of just swapping them over.

When comparing the price of these twins to a ST kit and the power obtained from each, the twins are a smarter choice for guys that don't want to spend $8k+

Trust me I'm a big fan of ST N54's but for AT's, twins are a more ideal setup due to the transmission limitations.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N

Here is a dyno graph comparing my car with twins to Terry's@BMS 135i Motiv ST. Pure is kicking the ST'a ass down low and is hanging strong up top.

That's a big GT3582R-sized turbo with even bigger 88mm compressor with a single-scroll 1.03 turbine housing and a log manifold. Awesome spool certainly isn't it's big selling point. A slightly smaller twin-scroll low-mount setup with a short-runner tubular manifold with a two 3>1 merge collectors going straight into the turbo flange would kill it for spool.

[braddman]

How does the auto transmission hold up to this power level?

[Torgus]

I'm sure Pure would prefer if all this ST vs Twins talk was not in their group buy thread. If people really want to dive into this why not make a thread dedicated to it?

That being said, if you only have 91 or 93 available stock frames will most likely net you under 500whp even when upgraded w/ inlets. A ST can achieve 500-600 on 93 and 600-700whp on 93 + meth. For above 700whp race gas or E85 must be used. So buy what fits your power goals.

[jellish]

Originally Posted by PR3CI5N

What is your power goal? These turbos have the same amount of low end torque that stock turbos have and pull hard to redline like a single turbo kit. Single turbo cars need an anti-lag system to build boost at low RPM's while I have my 3rd gear boost limited to 19psi or else I light up my tires at 50mph.


Pure stage 2 are stock housing turbos so you can simply remove your stock turbos and install these. You'll want to replace your stock inlets with upgraded inlets such as RB or TFT (large price difference but I'm a big fan of my TFT inlet kit). The stock inlets are very restrictive and won't let these turbos shine.

Hey thanks for the response.

To be honest I have very little experience with turbo'd systems. I've rebuilt lots of cars and engines, but all were NA and mostly carb'd.

If it's realistic, I'd like to have 500rwhp reliably on 91-93. I plan on having a FMIC and CP by then, and I already have DPs. I'll be getting inlets as well (if I go with a new hybrid turbo setup).

I can't run ethanol and don't want to do meth, so it 500rwhp on pump gas realistic with upgraded twins?

I was considering getting a JPWorks top mount with a smaller turbo. People seem to be confident that would make 500rwhp easily on pump gas, and do so very reliably. (It would also only cost ~4500).

if any of those things seem unrealistic let me know!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by neuroclast

If it's realistic, I'd like to have 500rwhp reliably on 91-93. can't run ethanol and don't want to do meth, so it 500rwhp on pump gas realistic with upgraded twins?

No one knows yet for sure. But it would have to be on 93 + inlets. Possibly 93 + meth.

Originally Posted by neuroclast

II was considering getting a JPWorks top mount with a smaller turbo. People seem to be confident that would make 500rwhp easily on pump gas, and do so very reliably. (It would also only cost ~4500).

It should easily be able to make 500whp on 91 seeing as shiv was able to crank out 600 on 91. on 93 600 max, on 93 + meth 700 max.

[Lambobimmer]

Originally Posted by Lambobimmer;18720109

I should get my Pure turbos in the next week or so with some 2" VTT inlets. My first map and dyno will be on 93 so I will post the results once I have them. It may be a month or so though.

I am getting close to finishing my 93 map and I hope to get on a dyno within the next week or two. I expect to see close if not over 500whp on 93. These Pure turbos have worked flawlessly and are absolutely worth the price even if you plan to only run 93. I also installed 2" inlets at the same time I installed the turbos. This map is strictly 93 with no Meth.

I am custom tuning with Ken at Wedge using MHD.

[WedgePerformance]

I'm not sure if I have the gearing correct as virtual dyno doesn't have a DCT option that I could see for the Z4 that made any sense. Not trying to do an Apples to Apples compare, but looking at my HEXON logs for the 335i sport AT I'm currently working on, the numbers look to be inline with what I was seeing with the virtual dyno for the HEXON RR600's.

In NO WAY is this 100% accurate, but a good indication of the power this car is making.



The tune I have on the PURE car makes a bit more boost through mid-range as you can see in the comparison graph. The boost onset is not an indication of the turbos ability to spool. The PFactor & VANOS are not the same on the PURE car. I also want to point out the fact that the specifications on the turbos are not the same. Again this is not a side by side or apples to apples, this is only an indication of the power the cars are making at the level they are tuned at today.



I know a lot of you would like to hear my overall opinion so far with regard to PURE vs HEXON..

They are both awesome products and they are both making great numbers. Bottom line, we have two fairly new options for the N54 community and I would be proud to own ether one.

If you're like me, you're sick of the drama and it is truly refreshing to not see PURE and HEXON adding to that drama. Both companies are here to make great products and provide great customer service. To conclude, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal choice. You can't go wrong ether way...