[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by RichP

Looks interesting, although, you guys have completed, by far, the easiest stage of the project: the hardware.

I have been around BMW forced induction for 6-7 years now, and these cars do not take to FI well in any sort of tuning sense, especially the E46 (and it can be assumed the E90) While, in theory, its simple, and the ECU should want to play nice with extra air/extra fuel, the ECU completely freaks out with any deviant from the norm. Its going to be upset with the 6 O2 sensors, regardless of what black box you use to make them appear as 2 signals. Its going to run lean in all sorts of part/no throttle situations. Its going to go into limp mode as soon as that turbo pulls ANY air through the MAF sensor and the "throttle" is closed, which FI cars do. (Throttle closed + air through maf = ECU sensing electronic throttle/Valvetronic failure)

I dont mean to come across too negative, LOL. I would like for nothing more than to see this kit work, and work beautifully!

Trust me. HorsepowerFreaks know what they are doing. Just wait and let them do their job.

[ben1364]

I confess that I don't recall having heard of "Horsepower Freaks" before this thread developed. Do they advertize in the Roundel?

[lux.sh]

they are wide known between Supra owners.
Check out both of their website. horsepowerfreaks.com/torquefreaks.com

[timzerofive]

No, I think the problem with BMW will be that the ECU on bimmers will react differently to any piggy backs they might try to use. It might seems straight forward by intercepting the incoming signal here, and over there, translating it into something the ECU can understand. However, some ECU just reacts differently when tempered with. I don't doubt their expertise on Supras because I've seen some cars tuned by them, but do keep in mind, that's a car that comes with factory turbo. Even if it was a non-turbo supra, they already have something to base off of. I don't doubt what they're claiming on what they can do with BMW either, but I just agree with the other guy that they are just getting started on the kit. Tuning it will be the most difficult part.

My old car, with the custom T3/T4 setup, they had all the hardware installed after a week, including a custom built T3/T4 (with clipped exhaust wheel and different exhaust housing size). The tuning of the car took about 2 months to get it running on the streets, and about another 6 months to get it running smoothly w/no hiccups. And I had to still constantly play with it on the laptop while driving to fine tune it. Well, that is with a full stand alone I'm sure they can get the car running smoothly a lot sooner then that, but still, the point is, tuning will be the hard part. And it will be very exciting to see how they will get it working.

[HPF Chris]

Yes you guys are correct, the ECU will be very tricky and finicky and will take quite some time to get dialed in. With regards to stand alones, We are AEM's largest distributor of engine management systems, and have installed and tuned these in many different cars. However... my goal is not to piggyback a stand alone on top of the existing ECU. We have several methods in mind that we will be trying and will ultimately come up with a desirable setup.

In order to accomplish this we've enlisted the help of Extreme Turbo (their shop builds high end turbo / intercooler kits for many different applications) and Pacific Motorsports "The BMW Shop" (well known for producing some very high end customized BMW's as well as turbocharged BMW applications)

The kit itself was actually the most complicated, complex kit we've ever developed. When we have the final production photos taken of the complete kit I think people will realize that this whole effort was a very daunting task. With that said, I'll keep everybody posted with our progress and hope to have some answers to the electronics very shortly.

Take care,
Chris.

[timzerofive]

Any thoughts on twin turbo?? Or a sequential setup. Since the car feels so smooth now, a sequential might be able to maintain that same bmw smoothness better.

[HPF Chris]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Awesome stuff Horsepowerfreaks.

I need to talk to Sean, see if he can hook me up with a good price on this kit.
what is the estimated(goal) price & power figure on this?

We'd love to set you up with one of these kits. In regards to TorqueFreaks... Sean no longer owns TorqueFreaks. Mark purchased it from Sean. I have an exclusive deal with Pacific Motorsports (down off of Powell and about 13th). They will be the only shop authorized in the NW to install our kits. They are very very very good at BMWs. That's why we chose them.

I'll have mine done shortly and you can stop over if you want to check it out. I'll keep this thread going with the progress. Pricing will be under $10K and power will be somewhere between 300-350hp for the stage one kits depending on the boost we're able to run with the electronics we're using.

Take care,
Chris.

[Hunter399]

What type of numbers are you looking at for the 325?

I want to be the first person on your list!

I can't wait!!!!

[BMW_E90]

we're all soo excited to see some pictures. show me the pictures! im curious how the setup looks like on the e90...

[RichP]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Trust me. HorsepowerFreaks know what they are doing. Just wait and let them do their job.

oh, in that case...

Im not doubting their ability to tune a car; and I am not doubting their fame in the Supra arena for building some truly kickass cars. :rocks: As timzerofive stated though, adding a turbo to an NA car is a totally different animal than tuning up a factory turbo. Honestly, there are very very few turbo addon kits, for any make, that run anywhere near "acceptable" if by acceptable we are stating pretty much OEM reliability and power delivery.

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc. And that is only on the E46. The E90 is integrated to other systems in ways that are almost ridiculous. You cannot even swap out the audio headunit in our cars without tripping fault codes. Piggybacks dont work either; either the ECU trips codes, maybe going into limp mode; or it simply adapts around what the unit is feeding it.

Turbo cars are very hard to tune for in NA applications. Unlike centrifugal blowers (which make for some boring and unexciting FI generally) the boost comes on at all different times at different levels, making for predictability in tuning much more complex. There is a reason why there are no E46s turbos, and it has been 7 years since their release.

Again, I am not discrediting anyting on this thread, and I wish these guys the best of luck. If this thing ever did ran right, my amex card will be ready.

[Artz 330]

Under 10K? hmm this is gonna be a rare Item amoung the E90 crowed, no?...

[Hunter399]

I will be getting one for sure

[Artz 330]

Originally Posted by hunter399

I will be getting one for sure

hell... me too... :rocks: :rocks:

[BMW_E90]

10k is a lot of money id rather buy another car..

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by RichP

oh, in that case...

Im not doubting their ability to tune a car; and I am not doubting their fame in the Supra arena for building some truly kickass cars. :rocks: As timzerofive stated though, adding a turbo to an NA car is a totally different animal than tuning up a factory turbo. Honestly, there are very very few turbo addon kits, for any make, that run anywhere near "acceptable" if by acceptable we are stating pretty much OEM reliability and power delivery.

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc. And that is only on the E46. The E90 is integrated to other systems in ways that are almost ridiculous. You cannot even swap out the audio headunit in our cars without tripping fault codes. Piggybacks dont work either; either the ECU trips codes, maybe going into limp mode; or it simply adapts around what the unit is feeding it.

Turbo cars are very hard to tune for in NA applications. Unlike centrifugal blowers (which make for some boring and unexciting FI generally) the boost comes on at all different times at different levels, making for predictability in tuning much more complex. There is a reason why there are no E46s turbos, and it has been 7 years since their release.

Again, I am not discrediting anyting on this thread, and I wish these guys the best of luck. If this thing ever did ran right, my amex card will be ready.

Thanks for the explanation. Im sure these guys know much more than any of us.

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by hunter399

What type of numbers are you looking at for the 325?

I want to be the first person on your list!

I can't wait!!!!

You´re going to need it too. To outrun those bloody SUV with crowbars in front that keep knocking you up from behind.

Sorry, couldn´t resist. Hope the repairs on your car are going well.

[Hunter399]

LOL
Today I will get a quote from the body shop

[Artz 330]

lol

[Chesmu]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

You´re going to need it too. To outrun those bloody SUV with crowbars in front that keep knocking you up from behind.

Sorry, couldn´t resist. Hope the repairs on your car are going well.

Oh now that's just mean....
hell, buy the man a beer...

[AW330i]

Originally Posted by moocow

Oh now that's just mean....
hell, buy the man a beer...

That would be illegal he is underage... LOL

[timzerofive]

Originally Posted by RichP

You cannot run a standalone on a modern BMW. Period. Unless you are willing to sacrifice ALOT of electronics to do so. No DSC, no AC, no ABS, etc etc.

I believe the AEM EMS does allow you to retain all thosel functions. iDrive is another story though. Can BMW ecu be "reflashed"??

[diesel007]

I will take an e46 M3 over a turbo'd e90.

Good luck with it though, seems like too much work for something that will have so many potential issues.