[sd306]

bNks334, perfect example of having things that work with the wrong setup. This was you, see it's possible and you proved it: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1156511

Makes me assume you've messed something up with the jb4 too. I've done it before too, it's okay. Just pointing out that no matter how good something is, you can throw a monkey in there and something will get messed up. Like me or you.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

Dinan has gone that direction when their original owner left. The F series uses a piggyback system now. BMW still warranties that product as well. You could say it's because the DME is hard to unlock or...because they went the cheap route.

It's because of significantly stronger DME encryption (rumors say it's 512 bit). Figuring out that key is next to impossible without some pretty serious specialized equipment, and you'd likely need to destroy a few DMEs to even do it successfully. Instead, it's easier and cheaper to take their software and plop it on an external tune than to go through all that.

Hopefully we'll get those keys cracked one day

[sd306]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

It's because of significantly stronger DME encryption (rumors say it's 512 bit). Figuring out that key is next to impossible without some pretty serious specialized equipment, and you'd likely need to destroy a few DMEs to even do it successfully. Instead, it's easier and cheaper to take their software and plop it on an external tune than to go through all that.

Hopefully we'll get those keys cracked one day

Yep, much like social engineering these days. Hack some crazy encryption and security appliances, or just call them and ask questions.

[joshe92]

Sooo JB4 or Cobb?

I have Cobb V3 as of now. I'm FBO so I'm running a OTS Stage 2+fmic. Pulls nicely and gets up to 18-20 Psi. IATs get up to 110 F

Cobb removed the ATR before I could get the free version, so I can't get a custom tune. Until they release the updated ATR, After it's released, you have to pay $100-150 to take a BS tuning class to teach you to use ATR. WTH! I want to have an expert tuner tune my car...not me

Therefore, I have decided to sell my Cobb and switch to JB4 until MHD comes out with their tune for the N55

side note: I don't plan on using E85

I hear that...
JB4 > Cobb V3 OTS maps

[bNks334]

Originally Posted by sd306

bNks334, perfect example of having things that work with the wrong setup. This was you, see it's possible and you proved it: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1156511

Makes me assume you've messed something up with the jb4 too. I've done it before too, it's okay. Just pointing out that no matter how good something is, you can throw a monkey in there and something will get messed up. Like me or you.]

You're really frustrating me now by trying to insinuate that all the glaringly obvious problems with the JB4 are actually my user error. That thread you link is related to updating my DME with WINKFP, which is something I only had to do to get the JB4 to work right in the first place. This is something I've already pointed out in this thread. This is something BMS is not upfront about at all. Cobb lets you know right up front when you're buying the AP that it only works with certain ROM versions. BMS ran me in circles asking for logs when I posted for support on how to get the JB4 to log all parameters correctly. I had to figure out for myself that I wasn't running a compatible DME version.

I posted for help in that thread because all the guides on how to re-calibrate the DSC module AREN'T WORKING. I didn't set anything up wrong. The "trifecta lights" are exactly what is supposed to happen when you update the DSC module.

You lack the most basic understanding of how any of this works and you want to suggest I am setting something up wrong?

You have yet to counter ANY point I have made on why the JB4 is a poor choice for tuning a car. All you have been able to come up with is "it's easy to use" and "all products have problems." Those are excuses my friend, not logical arguments to counter my statement that anyone switching from the COBB AP to the JB4 are downgrading.

This is actually hilarious now. You have N54tuning Mike, a vendor, now saying BMS fixed the emission issue in an earlier firmware. Is this the twilight zone? Even if that is true that doesn't change the fact that it broken in the CURRENT firmware. People really need to think before they speak and spread misinformation. Especially when these people are vendors who customers are depending on to be knowledgeable.

[sd306]

Originally Posted by bNks334

You're really frustrating me now by trying to insinuate that all the glaringly obvious problems with the JB4 are actually my user error. That thread you link is related to updating my DME with WINKFP, which is something I only had to do to get the JB4 to work right in the first place. This is something I've already pointed out in this thread. This is something BMS is not upfront about at all. Cobb lets you know right up front when you're buying the AP that it only works with certain ROM versions. BMS ran me in circles asking for logs when I posted for support on how to get the JB4 to log all parameters correctly. I had to figure out for myself that I wasn't running a compatible DME version.

I posted for help in that thread because all the guides on how to re-calibrate the DSC module AREN'T WORKING. I didn't set anything up wrong. The "trifecta lights" are exactly what is supposed to happen when you update the DSC module.

You lack the most basic understanding of how any of this works and you want to suggest I am setting something up wrong?

You have yet to counter ANY point I have made on why the JB4 is a poor choice for tuning a car. All you have been able to come up with is "it's easy to use" and "all products have problems." Those are excuses my friend, not logical arguments to counter my statement that anyone switching from the COBB AP to the JB4 are downgrading.

This is actually hilarious now. You have N54tuning Mike, a vendor, now saying BMS fixed the emission issue in an earlier firmware. Is this the twilight zone? Even if that is true that doesn't change the fact that it broken in the CURRENT firmware. People really need to think before they speak and spread misinformation. Especially when these people are vendors who customers are depending on to be knowledgeable.

[sd306]

Originally Posted by joshe92

Sooo JB4 or Cobb?

I have Cobb V3 as of now. I'm FBO so I'm running a OTS Stage 2+fmic. Pulls nicely and gets up to 18-20 Psi. IATs get up to 110 F

Cobb removed the ATR before I could get the free version, so I can't get a custom tune. Until they release the updated ATR, After it's released, you have to pay $100-150 to take a BS tuning class to teach you to use ATR. WTH! I want to have an expert tuner tune my car...not me

Therefore, I have decided to sell my Cobb and switch to JB4 until MHD comes out with their tune for the N55

side note: I don't plan on using E85

I hear that...
JB4 > Cobb V3 OTS maps

I initially went with cobb because it was easy. Plug in and press a few buttons and it's faster. If you stick with cobb get a protune map from pro tuning freaks. They are great. With the OTS maps it is faster, but better to get a customized one on your car. Plus they will review the logs to make sure everything is jiving.

If you can install the jb4 confidently i'd say go that route. Downside is you have to uninstall it for dealer visits. But the on the fly map changes are awesome and other minute features are really neat. I initially thought I could carless about these features but then got them and was like scchweet. You should also get the bluetooth kit and phone app. It makes logging a breeze and I am able to monitor a good amount of things to make sure they stay in check.

Keep the cobb though for future turbo upgrades when you continually get addicted to more power. Some say sell it now, but until MHD is out and proven on the n55 I'm keeping my cobb for pure stage 2

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by bNks334

You're really frustrating me now by trying to insinuate that all the glaringly obvious problems with the JB4 are actually my user error. That thread you link is related to updating my DME with WINKFP, which is something I only had to do to get the JB4 to work right in the first place. This is something I've already pointed out in this thread. This is something BMS is not upfront about at all. Cobb lets you know right up front when you're buying the AP that it only works with certain ROM versions. BMS ran me in circles asking for logs when I posted for support on how to get the JB4 to log all parameters correctly. I had to figure out for myself that I wasn't running a compatible DME version.

I posted for help in that thread because all the guides on how to re-calibrate the DSC module AREN'T WORKING. I didn't set anything up wrong. The "trifecta lights" are exactly what is supposed to happen when you update the DSC module.

You lack the most basic understanding of how any of this works and you want to suggest I am setting something up wrong?

You have yet to counter ANY point I have made on why the JB4 is a poor choice for tuning a car. All you have been able to come up with is "it's easy to use" and "all products have problems." Those are excuses my friend, not logical arguments to counter my statement that anyone switching from the COBB AP to the JB4 are downgrading.

This is actually hilarious now. You have N54tuning Mike, a vendor, now saying BMS fixed the emission issue in an earlier firmware. Is this the twilight zone? Even if that is true that doesn't change the fact that it broken in the CURRENT firmware. People really need to think before they speak and spread misinformation. Especially when these people are vendors who customers are depending on to be knowledgeable.

I started a post yesterday about you making a lot of assumptions about things. I just didn't want to make the time investment because I know you are going to come back with more of the same. I may not respond because I seriously have no desire to get in a pissing match on the internet with someone that is obviously very biased.

You have a decent amount of knowledge, but make some leaps of faith that are incorrect. I agree that ideally you would want a flash tune, but you make a lot of statements about how bad a piggyback is that are incorrect. If you think about it a piggyback really does mostly the same thing as a flash tune. The flash tune changes a scalar in the ECM. The piggy back changes the scalar of the sensor itself. As long as the scalar does not go outside of the range in the ECM or adversely affect something else, there is actually nothing wrong with this. 2 ways to accomplish the same thing.

I have quite a bit of tuning knowledge coming from the Mitsu crowd and have programmed and tuned my own standalone ECU. MHD has the potential to make everyone happy and I hope it works out really well.

[bNks334]

Originally Posted by JETmn

I started a post yesterday about you making a lot of assumptions about things. I just didn't want to make the time investment because I know you are going to come back with more of the same. I may not respond because I seriously have no desire to get in a pissing match on the internet with someone that is obviously very biased.

You have a decent amount of knowledge, but make some leaps of faith that are incorrect. I agree that ideally you would want a flash tune, but you make a lot of statements about how bad a piggyback is that are incorrect. If you think about it a piggyback really does mostly the same thing as a flash tune. The flash tune changes a scalar in the ECM. The piggy back changes the scalar of the sensor itself. As long as the scalar does not go outside of the range in the ECM or adversely affect something else, there is actually nothing wrong with this. 2 ways to accomplish the same thing.

I have quite a bit of tuning knowledge coming from the Mitsu crowd and have programmed and tuned my own standalone ECU. MHD has the potential to make everyone happy and I hope it works out really well.

Let’s backtrack a bit, everything I have stated is fact. How do my comments regarding factual issues with the JB4 present a bias? They only thing I can be biased about is my comments regarding BMS's poor visibility and support of their product. I can support that assertion as well with multiple examples and already have in this thread.

Please point out to me where I am making "leaps of faith" because it's simply a logical fallacy to say so. This isn't about getting into a pissing fight. This is about me stating facts and people trying to discredit them WITHOUT ANY BASIS.

A standalone ECU is NOT a piggy back device that runs on top of your stock DME. That's a whole different scenario. If you're so adept at tuning a stand alone ecu then you of all people should understand why the JB4 leaving the DME to see stock load, and run the stock timing curve, is poor tuning.

I'm done with this thread. I'm not trying to bash the JB4 and that's what it's turning into. Like you said yourself, the JB4 has its own advantages. That doesn't make anything I'm saying about it any less true. People supporting and enjoying certain features of the JB4 don't make any of my comments any less true either.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by bNks334

Let’s backtrack a bit, everything I have stated is fact. How do my comments regarding factual issues with the JB4 present a bias? They only thing I can be biased about is my comments regarding BMS's poor visibility and support of their product. I can support that assertion as well with multiple examples and already have in this thread.

Please point out to me where I am making "leaps of faith" because it's simply a logical fallacy to say so. This isn't about getting into a pissing fight. This is about me stating facts and people trying to discredit them WITHOUT ANY BASIS.

A standalone ECU is NOT a piggy back device that runs on top of your stock DME. That's a whole different scenario. If you're so adept at tuning a stand alone ecu then you of all people should understand why the JB4 leaving the DME to see stock load, and run the stock timing curve, is poor tuning.

I'm done with this thread. I'm not trying to bash the JB4 and that's what it's turning into. Like you said yourself, the JB4 has its own advantages. That doesn't make anything I'm saying about it any less true. People supporting and enjoying certain features of the JB4 don't make any of my comments any less true either.

Did you even read my post? The first 3 lines of your post were already clearly stated in there. You seem so intent to try and prove your point that you have blinders on and will not listen to anyone else. Maybe that is how the whole problem started. It seems most other people here see that too (multiple people stating the impossible, they went from AP to JB4 and are happier).

[bNks334]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Did you even read my post? The first 3 lines of your post were already clearly stated in there. You seem so intent to try and prove your point that you have blinders on and will not listen to anyone else. Maybe that is how the whole problem started. It seems most other people here see that too (multiple people stating the impossible, they went from AP to JB4 and are happier).

Listen to anyone about what exactly? Not a single person has countered anything I've said with a factual statement. I am only still replying to rebut their false responses.

Saying people have switched to the JB4 and are happy is not a logically valid argument to counter anything I've said. It doesn't change any of the facts I've stated. Why is that so hard for YOU to see? However, it is fantastic that they are happy!

The JB4 does work, just don't sit there trying to claim I'm wrong just because you're happy with it. That is wrong. I say this with the utmost respect for anyone taking the time to respond to this thread to try to help others.

[cjindna]

Hopefully we can end the argument here as it stopped being fun to watch about post #45....

With Cobb clearly on the verge of releasing some major updates, have they made any clear statements regarding the ability to flash MEDV1726 (5/2012 335i coupe)?

[bNks334]

Originally Posted by cjindna

Hopefully we can end the argument here as it stopped being fun to watch about post #45....

With Cobb clearly on the verge of releasing some major updates, have they made any clear statements regarding the ability to flash MEDV1726 (5/2012 335i coupe)?

From what I've read of what they've said, it's already able to be done. It just requires "jailbreaking" the DME almost like bench flashing. Dinan offers software tunes for that DME, so they've got it figured out... I doubt Dinan is modifying the DME to do their flashes.

Both COBB and MHD are still in the process of determining if it's feasible to bring to market a simple to use OBDII flashing device like the AP. They can't really rely on customers being willing to remove their DME and shipping it off to be hacked apart.

[cjindna]

The interesting thing is that this is already becoming commonplace on many heavily modified platforms like Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge. Since 2015 models released with an encrypted PCM folks wanting to supercharge a Jeep Wrangler (like myself), or modify their Hemi powered vehicle, require an "unlocked" PCM. This requires either receiving a new, VIN coded, PCM unlocked by one of the few tuners offering the service or alternatively sending your existing in directly to be unlocked.

I would hope that this community would not be opposed to that type of motion and that our critical vendors would not shy away from this process as it has not impacted business on US domestic vehicles for tuners like Diablosport or HP.

[Rob_BMW_PNW]

Originally Posted by cjindna

Hopefully we can end the argument here as it stopped being fun to watch about post #45....

With Cobb clearly on the verge of releasing some major updates, have they made any clear statements regarding the ability to flash MEDV1726 (5/2012 335i coupe)?

What major updates? Thought they stopped?

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by Rob_BMW_PNW

What major updates? Thought they stopped?

Agreed, the only "major update" I have heard is that it will finally work on the ROM that was released Dec 2015. They have said they are not going to do any more development work on new features.