[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

BMW did not change their warranty. It is still 4yr/50,000 in the US.

He is referring to the reduction of the free maintenance from 4/50 to 3/36 and removal of brakes as being covered. I am curious to see how much that impacts sales....

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

Sales slump had to be expected at some point when you keep offering less car for more relative money. I would still be shopping for a 3 if I felt I was getting something a little special for a respectable price. I am still baffled by a $50k mildly optioned 328.

This is the truth.

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

OK maybe not ugly but bland for sure. Speaking strictly of the cars here- to be honest, having owned 6 BMWs over the past 14 years (3 ea. E 46 ZHP,s, Z4M, 435 GC wifes M235) I have to say that Audi and Merc cars are simply better looking inside and or outside? Yes some Audis can be sterile and too industrial (New A4 for sure) and Mercedes is coming out of a generation of many ugly cars for sure and they never quite know what to do with their light clusters do they? Front and rear can be ugly- BUT... Both have gotten much better lately.
Audi interiors simply kick BMWs ass, Merc interiors (sans the ugly tacked on tablet) are WAYYY better than BMWs. I can get a Bang and Olufsen sound system in any Audi, Burmester in any Mercedes but live with a very average HK system in a 2,3 or 4 series for 50-70k?!?! WTF. Lets face it a 50k 328i does not get my pulse racing, like say an E46 would. And for 50k its just OK nothing special. My wife has an M235 nice car- fast - looks ...meh and 52k and NO blind spot assist? Hell you can get that on a 20K Kia. And did I mention the wind and road noise? My 435 GC and M235 have much more wind and road noise than they should- I know this is a BMW thing as my E46's were kind of the same- but the vault like Audi is simply better.
New 5 series? Get me an A/S6 ANYDAY and those are 2 years from being totally refreshed. The 4 series front end looks terrible unless M sport.
While I zip up my flame suit, I will also say just look at the numbers- BMW car sales down Audi, Merc sales UP in a "flat" car market. My next car will be an S3 while it loses on the driving side to an M240 (But not by much the M240 on the highway is kind of "jittery" the S3 is buttery smooth) The S3 it looks better IMO and the tech inside is wayyy better with virtual cockpit, awesome seats and aluminum not plastic trim and my new B&O sound system will sound amazing. I would be tempted with an M2 but dont want to wait a year- BMW needs to recognize winners, the M2 is one and should be available without wait and have the same color options (and more) than other 2 series.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

As far as I can remember, BMW sales were up year over year every month except for maybe a few. How are sales down 11%?

BMW, these forums are a great indication of why sales are down. Bring back the road hugging feel, bring back the quality interiors. Bring back the bespoke M and you'll bring your clients back in hoards.

Get rid of the cheap 320i xDrive. I'd rather go buy a Camry than sit in a 320. Yes, it's that bad.


Wishful thinking, I know.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I forgot to mention, the new C Class and A4 wipe the floor with the 3, in every regard. The C feels premium. You can get the MB Tex 'leather' dash. The car really makes you feel like you're sitting in something special. The next generation 3 series needs to step up in almost every regard.

The H/K 'Premium' audio is pathetic. I expect more from a 'Premium' manufacturer. An H/K audio system in an M3 that can cost close to 80k? Sad.

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

As far as I can remember, BMW sales were up year over year every month except for maybe a few. How are sales down 11%?

BMW, these forums are a great indication of why sales are down. Bring back the road hugging feel, bring back the quality interiors. Bring back the bespoke M and you'll bring your clients back in hoards.

Get rid of the cheap 320i xDrive. I'd rather go buy a Camry than sit in a 320. Yes, it's that bad.


Wishful thinking, I know.

And you'd save ~10k with the Camry neither car is special so why not save the money?

[David70]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

He is referring to the reduction of the free maintenance from 4/50 to 3/36 and removal of brakes as being covered. I am curious to see how much that impacts sales....

We'll never know because of too many variables to figure it out.

Losing the maintenance from 36-50k miles makes no difference to me. I would never get the free brakes and then I would lose an oil change and maybe an air filter? Not enough $$ to change my buying decision.

My Audi A3, I replaced the brakes and they weren't worn out completely at 145k miles (DIY and didn't want to deal with uncertain timing of a problem).

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I forgot to mention, the new C Class and A4 wipe the floor with the 3, in every regard. The C feels premium. You can get the MB Tex 'leather' dash. The car really makes you feel like you're sitting in something special. The next generation 3 series needs to step up in almost every regard.

The H/K 'Premium' audio is pathetic. I expect more from a 'Premium' manufacturer. An H/K audio system in an M3 that can cost close to 80k? Sad.

Also sad is that the H/K is not as good as in years past. The standard H/K in my 08 E90 335 was way better than the current junk H/K. The enhanced premium sound we has in our departed E92 m3's was vastly superior to the radio available in the F82.

[ZilberGrau ZHP]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Also sad is that the H/K is not as good as in years past. The standard H/K in my 08 E90 335 was way better than the current junk H/K. The enhanced premium sound we has in our departed E92 m3's was vastly superior to the radio available in the F82.

I have maintained this for a long time- shame on BMW in a 50-70k car that most BMWs end up being- the sound system should be memorable not merely average.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by PhoenixWolf

Car sales on the whole were down in 2016...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-dece...184837554.html

[Hockey Guy]

As the owner of six different BMWs over many, many years (mostly M cars), I think BMW has become way too conservative with its external styling (the interiors are fine to me other than lower grade audio outside the B&O systems). Regarding external styling, so little changes generation to generation...let's be honest on this! BMW is now afraid to take risk (maybe after the Bangle years) and that is usually the recipe for mediocrity. Sure the new 5 series looks nice but is just so predictable and conservative. Some will say that's the BMW formula, but sales numbers are showing that BMW is not as special as it once was. Take a little more risk BMW! Add some panache...hire the Italians if need be!

[raysspl]

Coupe sales are down significantly while SUV & sedan sales are up

[dlk001]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I forgot to mention, the new C Class and A4 wipe the floor with the 3, in every regard. The C feels premium. You can get the MB Tex 'leather' dash. The car really makes you feel like you're sitting in something special. The next generation 3 series needs to step up in almost every regard.

The H/K 'Premium' audio is pathetic. I expect more from a 'Premium' manufacturer. An H/K audio system in an M3 that can cost close to 80k? Sad.

W205 segment has so many built quality issues more than W204 it replaces. The number of complaints on Mercedes forums is insane

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w205-186/

Mercedes Benz C-class W205 Problems Malfunction What Is Your Experience ?

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w2...rience-23.html

http://mbworld.org/forums/c43-amg-c6...-amg-w205-187/

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by dlk001

W205 segment has so many built quality issues more than W204 it replaces. The number of complaints on Mercedes forums is insane

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w205-186/

Mercedes Benz C-class W205 Problems Malfunction What Is Your Experience ?

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w2...rience-23.html

http://mbworld.org/forums/c43-amg-c6...-amg-w205-187/

If you're going to go by forum complaints as an indicator on the actual metric to measure built quality, you would think the E9x platform is built from rusted aluminum foil (yes I know aluminum doesn't rust) and patched together with dirt.

Forums, by it's very nature, is a place where the whiney b*tches get heard far more than the satisfied owners. And by it's very nature, NEWER platforms gets more of the whiney b*tches because it's NEW. When the E9X first came out, compared to the E46, the noise to signal ratio was so much higher that at one point I declared that the E9X owners are the least informed and whiniest bunch of automotive enthusiasts in the automotive world. It probably still stands true, but compared to FXX owners. Oh. My. Gawd.

Your statement has as much scientific truth to it as the Catholic Church's view of the solar system during Copernicus's time.

[Caddyshk]

Originally Posted by Hockey Guy

As the owner of six different BMWs over many, many years (mostly M cars), I think BMW has become way too conservative with its external styling (the interiors are fine to me other than lower grade audio outside the B&O systems). Regarding external styling, so little changes generation to generation...let's be honest on this! BMW is now afraid to take risk (maybe after the Bangle years) and that is usually the recipe for mediocrity. Sure the new 5 series looks nice but is just so predictable and conservative. Some will say that's the BMW formula, but sales numbers are showing that BMW is not as special as it once was. Take a little more risk BMW! Add some panache...hire the Italians if need be!

With Italian Engineers involved, the car would look really cool; while unable to start in my driveway!

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by dlk001

W205 segment has so many built quality issues more than W204 it replaces. The number of complaints on Mercedes forums is insane

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w205-186/

Mercedes Benz C-class W205 Problems Malfunction What Is Your Experience ?

http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w2...rience-23.html

http://mbworld.org/forums/c43-amg-c6...-amg-w205-187/

The first model year of a car will have issues. I have family with '16 W205's and they're solid.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by The HACK

If you're going to go by forum complaints as an indicator on the actual metric to measure built quality, you would think the E9x platform is built from rusted aluminum foil (yes I know aluminum doesn't rust) and patched together with dirt.

Forums, by it's very nature, is a place where the whiney b*tches get heard far more than the satisfied owners. And by it's very nature, NEWER platforms gets more of the whiney b*tches because it's NEW. When the E9X first came out, compared to the E46, the noise to signal ratio was so much higher that at one point I declared that the E9X owners are the least informed and whiniest bunch of automotive enthusiasts in the automotive world. It probably still stands true, but compared to FXX owners. Oh. My. Gawd.

Your statement has as much scientific truth to it as the Catholic Church's view of the solar system during Copernicus's time.

Well said.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

As far as I can remember, BMW sales were up year over year every month except for maybe a few. How are sales down 11%?

BMW, these forums are a great indication of why sales are down. Bring back the road hugging feel, bring back the quality interiors. Bring back the bespoke M and you'll bring your clients back in hoards.

Get rid of the cheap 320i xDrive. I'd rather go buy a Camry than sit in a 320. Yes, it's that bad.


Wishful thinking, I know.

How many deals did you turn down last month? It's YOU, not the car. Don't kid yourself.

[beto_L.A.]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

BMW did not change their warranty. It is still 4yr/50,000 in the US.

Here is the new warranty.
And it did change. Brake service no longer included.
MY 2017 and over it's now a 3yr/36k mls.[IMG]http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...aintennace.png[/IMG]

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by beto_L.A.

Here is the new warranty.
And it did change. Brake service no longer included.
MY 2017 and over it's now a 3yr/36k mls.[IMG]http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...aintennace.png[/IMG]

That's not the warranty. That is the maintenance plan. Warranty is still 4yr/50k. Maintenance plan is 3yr/36k.

[David70]

Originally Posted by beto_L.A.

Here is the new warranty.
And it did change. Brake service no longer included.
MY 2017 and over it's now a 3yr/36k mls.[IMG]http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/up...aintennace.png[/IMG]

Warranty is a program where they fix things that break for some amount of time and miles. I don't believe this changed.

Maintenance Plan is an agreement where for some amount of time and miles they do what is required to keep your vehicle running properly (maintain the vehicle by their recommendations). This changed.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by jxr006

Spot on... the C class feels so refined. That wood paneling and circle metal vents exhubrates quality.

That's what BMW needs, just more natural materials... because gauge wise it's all the same.

But fusion though? Nobody here is buying American. We've all been burned by the terrible quality, poor residual value, and uninteresting drive.

Nobody where? Not sure when the last time you were in an American car.