2008 Bimmerfest - Summary of 335 Tuning Vendors

Lotus99 · 05-09-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Dinan has ALWAYS had to "crack" the encryption to tune. There is no severing of the relationship. The only relationship there is anyway is Dinan picking up the warranty, and that's still happening.

I don't know what people assumed the other parts of the "relationship" were?

If they were in fact cracking their code, why would BMW be so sympathetic towards them by letting them use their network of dealerships and work with them in deciding who would pay for warranty work? Cracking someone's software doesn't sound like something the software writer would be happy with! THAT wouldn't make sense to me...

Mattscott · 05-09-2008, 10:14 PM

No wonder I didn't see you at Bimmerfest Rob, you were BUSY!

Black Chili · 05-10-2008, 03:49 AM

Although I can think of at least 10 successful ways to make an ECU unhackable i hope i always know better than to believe that what one human can create, another can not destroy and in fairly short order too.

As we saw with the PSP 1.51 updates to kill the hackers, it is ultimately at the determent of these who bought the product. One thing that absolutely escapes me is why marketers and manufactures never intentionally capitalize effectively on the screw-with-it factor. If the 335i had a bigger naturally asperated I6 I'd never considered it....never kinda even slightly.

Horsepower sells to a defined and highly loyal segment of the population; it has for many decades and although I couldn't tell you, I doubt the good tuners are struggling financially. Whoever at BMW thought it would be a better idea to kill a segment of there potential buyers than take the liability of a warranty hit needs to find a different day job. Not only are they risking the 335, more so the 135 and less so the 535, but also every TT application they release in the future. DEAR BMW, PART OF THE REASON YOUR CAR IS SO POPULAR IS BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN TUNE IT FOR HUGE GAINS AND NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR MARKETING GENIUS.

It seems a better idea to design a 500hp car as a 300hp car, then create shell companies as tuners competing with each other, creating a buzz about your product and a whole subculture of long-term devoted customers while making money off the car AND the tuners while catering to an emerging market of younger-minded, competitive, weekend warrior car guys that has and always will exist from now to the tend of time. And the best part is, other than a slight price increase associated with building a slightly better drivetrain, has no negative impact if the buyer chooses never to modify the car.

The X-Box fell in 4 months and Blue-Ray said the media was uncrackable for at least 10 years (really); it went down in less than 1. The net result of BMW's actions is that they make the tuners work harder until it becomes no longer profitable to tune for that make/model and the manufacture kills off a whole segment of buyers. A reasonable assumption at this rate is we may see the BMW's like iPhones.. every time BMW issues an update at each oil change, someone releases a hacked update and it becomes a competition to see how fast they can get the updates out.

Eliminator · 05-10-2008, 08:45 AM

Graphite, you are the Socrates of the modern e-marketing world with a kick-in-the-@ss, Peter Fisk inspired mentality. Awesome. Now if we can only solve the warranty issues inherent in mechanically limited devices...

Numb3rs · 05-10-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slubu

By the way, I do not have enough knowledge to know who is correct on this, but every flash tuner stated the new DME was to deter piggybacks, and every piggyback vendor stated the new DME was to deter flashes. Thought that was funny (but expected).

Thank you for your summery!

As for the new DME and "data banks", perhaps it's like different copies of the same test. Same info, except BMW has 5 different eproms that house the info in different locations, so you need to know which of the five you have before being able to address it correctly.

05-09-2008, 10:14 PM	#46
Mattscott Major General 108 Rep 8,327 Posts Drives: 2007 335i E90 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Beaumont, CA iTrader: (2)	No wonder I didn't see you at Bimmerfest Rob, you were BUSY! __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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05-10-2008, 03:49 AM	#47
Black Chili IT geek 6 Rep 187 Posts Drives: X6MC Moreno Bay Blue & Z4 35IS Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	Although I can think of at least 10 successful ways to make an ECU unhackable i hope i always know better than to believe that what one human can create, another can not destroy and in fairly short order too. As we saw with the PSP 1.51 updates to kill the hackers, it is ultimately at the determent of these who bought the product. One thing that absolutely escapes me is why marketers and manufactures never intentionally capitalize effectively on the screw-with-it factor. If the 335i had a bigger naturally asperated I6 I'd never considered it....never kinda even slightly. Horsepower sells to a defined and highly loyal segment of the population; it has for many decades and although I couldn't tell you, I doubt the good tuners are struggling financially. Whoever at BMW thought it would be a better idea to kill a segment of there potential buyers than take the liability of a warranty hit needs to find a different day job. Not only are they risking the 335, more so the 135 and less so the 535, but also every TT application they release in the future. DEAR BMW, PART OF THE REASON YOUR CAR IS SO POPULAR IS BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN TUNE IT FOR HUGE GAINS AND NOT BECAUSE OF YOUR MARKETING GENIUS. It seems a better idea to design a 500hp car as a 300hp car, then create shell companies as tuners competing with each other, creating a buzz about your product and a whole subculture of long-term devoted customers while making money off the car AND the tuners while catering to an emerging market of younger-minded, competitive, weekend warrior car guys that has and always will exist from now to the tend of time. And the best part is, other than a slight price increase associated with building a slightly better drivetrain, has no negative impact if the buyer chooses never to modify the car. The X-Box fell in 4 months and Blue-Ray said the media was uncrackable for at least 10 years (really); it went down in less than 1. The net result of BMW's actions is that they make the tuners work harder until it becomes no longer profitable to tune for that make/model and the manufacture kills off a whole segment of buyers. A reasonable assumption at this rate is we may see the BMW's like iPhones.. every time BMW issues an update at each oil change, someone releases a hacked update and it becomes a competition to see how fast they can get the updates out.
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05-10-2008, 08:45 AM	#48
Eliminator First Lieutenant 33 Rep 311 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 SSII 6M, '87 911 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Graphite, you are the Socrates of the modern e-marketing world with a kick-in-the-@ss, Peter Fisk inspired mentality. Awesome. Now if we can only solve the warranty issues inherent in mechanically limited devices...
	Appreciate 0 Quote