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[carnuts3]

Any chemistry majors out there? This is way over my head. I never thought putting air (or something ) in your tires could be so complicated!

[Flyingdwarf]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

AIR is made out of a LOT more than just Nitrogen and oxygen

Lets not forget the most important thing air contains.... GRAVITY! You dont get much of that in pure nitrogen.

[espo]

Originally Posted by Flyingdwarf

Lets not forget the most important thing air contains.... GRAVITY! You dont get much of that in pure nitrogen.

[sdorn]

Originally Posted by Flyingdwarf

Lets not forget the most important thing air contains.... GRAVITY! You dont get much of that in pure nitrogen.

Is this a joke? I sure hope so. I laughed when I read it, real real hard.

[Flyingdwarf]

Originally Posted by sdorn

Is this a joke? I sure hope so. I laughed when I read it, real real hard.

Yeah don't worry, I have a little bit of science knowledge. Nitrogen has gravity too, but its a little bit less than 9.81m/s2 (superscript the 2 there), since the N2 (subscript the 2 there) molecules are bigger.

Seriously though, I am joking.

[sdorn]

Originally Posted by Flyingdwarf

Yeah don't worry, I have a little bit of science knowledge. Nitrogen has gravity too, but its a little bit less than 9.81m/s2 (superscript the 2 there), since the N2 (subscript the 2 there) molecules are bigger.

Seriously though, I am joking.

I guess you were trying to say that air is heavier than nitrogen since gravity isn't a thing that something is composed of. It is a force that acts on objects. The force of gravity on earth is constant. It doesn't change based on the mass or molecular structure of the object.

[wstrohm]

"Nitrogen is inert and cannot ignite or burn." (and various similar comments).

"Inert" is relative. Only the "noble" gases are truly inert, i.e. helium, neon, argon, and others usually ending in "on." Nitrogen can in fact burn, but it requires high temperatures to do so. NOx products from internal combustion engines are the result of nitrogen combining with oxygen, which a truly "inert" gas will not do.

The Apollo 1 spacecraft fire, in which Grissom, White, and Chaffee died, was the result of titanium burning with the nitrogen in the air of the module, forming titanium nitride. Electrical wires shorted, causing arcs that fired magnesium parts, which became so hot that the titanium structure lit off.

At ambient temperatures, N2 may not spontaneously combine with other elements, but it is certainly not "inert."

[Flyingdwarf]

Originally Posted by sdorn

I guess you were trying to say that air is heavier than nitrogen since gravity isn't a thing that something is composed of. It is a force that acts on objects. The force of gravity on earth is constant. It doesn't change based on the mass or molecular structure of the object.

No, I was actually just talking crap.

[sdorn]

Originally Posted by Flyingdwarf

No, I was actually just talking crap.

Ok. It was pretty funny then.

[Flyingdwarf]

That was the intention. Don't want people actually thinking I meant that. Maybe I should have included a disclaimer.

[espo]

Originally Posted by wstrohm

The Apollo 1 spacecraft fire, in which Grissom, White, and Chaffee died, was the result of titanium burning with the nitrogen in the air of the module, forming titanium nitride. Electrical wires shorted, causing arcs that fired magnesium parts, which became so hot that the titanium structure lit off.

Actually the problem in that case was the module was pressurized with pure oxygen. Nothing burns in pure nitrogen, there needs to be atleast some oxygen present for combustion.

[Ghunger]

Just thought I'd chime in, I was at Costco looking at new tires for my truck and found out they will fill, and refill tires, sold by them, with nitrogen for free. I don't think I'd use it over air if it wasn't free but otherwise, why not?

[Muttley]

Originally Posted by Ghunger

Just thought I'd chime in, I was at Costco looking at new tires for my truck and found out they will fill, and refill tires, sold by them, with nitrogen for free. I don't think I'd use it over air if it wasn't free but otherwise, why not?

Yeah, got my tires at costco and it was free. They put green caps on my valve stems to indicate that it has nitrogen in it. Lifetime tire rotation and nitrogen with tire purchase.

I dont race my car but it sure helps when it is cold out. The year before my tires would lose alot of pressure when it was cold. Now with the nitrogen its the same as it is in the summer.

[N1]

Why Do Tires Lose Air?

Gaseous solubilization and permeation.....

The pressurized air inside the tire, is seeking equilibrium with the atmospheric pressure air outside the tire.

Rubber is not 100% impermeable

Air molecules or more accurately the oxygen molecules in air can and do migrate through the tire s sidewalls and belts/tread area (about 75% of air loss), around the bead-wheel interface (about 15%) and through the valve stem or valve mounting spot (about 10%) according to Bridgestone/ Firestone.... Source: Tire Business (Sept 22 2003)

Why use Nitrogen

* Nitrogen is an inert gas that has a larger molecular structure than Oxygen.
* Safety
* Proper tire pressure maximizes a vehicles braking and steering capability
* Elimination of oxygen results in fewer internal tire failures
* Reduced chemical aging reduces the risk of tire failure

Tire Performance

* Proper tire pressure optimizes a vehicles handling
* Proper tire pressure improves ride quality
* Economy
* Proper tire pressure minimizes rolling resistance, leading to better fuel mileage
* Proper inflation pressure optimizes tire life

Features & Benefits

* Does not diffuse as easily: nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen, which means that it has a slower rate of pressure loss.?
* Nitrogen permeates the tire at a rate of 30-40% slower than oxygen?
* Inert gas: nitrogen disperses heat more quickly which results in cooler running tires?
* Improved tread life
* Reduced incidences of tire damage caused by excessive heat
* Non-flammable; reduced chance of flash point explosion
* Potential for better fuel mileage; if heat is restrained from building up the rolling resistance is reduced which can improve the vehicles fuel economy
* Reduced pressure build up: maintaining pressure reduces the deflection, which again prevents heat build-up and reduces the chance of separation
* Over-pressurization is as problematic as under-pressurization
* Increased tire pressure above the recommended inflation point can reduce the contact patch and thus reduce the maximum possible grip levels.
* Reduced moisture content introduced to the tire
* Nitrogen is dry because of it's inert qualities. Many of the causes of failure in a tire can be attributed to moist air being introduced internally to the tire.
* Moisture causes rusting, especially of the stem valve, increasing leakage. Additionally heating in tires is often caused by vaporization of the moisture

Who Uses Nitrogen Today?

* Aircraft tires
* Used for consistent pressure and minimized oxidation of rubber compounds
* NASCAR & Fomula 1
* For improved, consistent handling and reduced operating temperatures
* Heavy contruction equipment
* For consistent tire pressure and to prevent auto-ignition
* US Goverment / military equipment
* NASA - space shuttle
Ive put it and i dont go every month to see tire pressure, braking is really more effective and im in. Its not N2 its N.

[Muttley]

Originally Posted by N1

Why Do Tires Lose Air?

Gaseous solubilization and permeation.....

The pressurized air inside the tire, is seeking equilibrium with the atmospheric pressure air outside the tire.

Rubber is not 100% impermeable

Air molecules or more accurately the oxygen molecules in air can and do migrate through the tire s sidewalls and belts/tread area (about 75% of air loss), around the bead-wheel interface (about 15%) and through the valve stem or valve mounting spot (about 10%) according to Bridgestone/ Firestone.... Source: Tire Business (Sept 22 2003)

Why use Nitrogen

* Nitrogen is an inert gas that has a larger molecular structure than Oxygen.
* Safety
* Proper tire pressure maximizes a vehicles braking and steering capability
* Elimination of oxygen results in fewer internal tire failures
* Reduced chemical aging reduces the risk of tire failure

Tire Performance

* Proper tire pressure optimizes a vehicles handling
* Proper tire pressure improves ride quality
* Economy
* Proper tire pressure minimizes rolling resistance, leading to better fuel mileage
* Proper inflation pressure optimizes tire life

Features & Benefits

* Does not diffuse as easily: nitrogen molecules are larger than oxygen, which means that it has a slower rate of pressure loss.?
* Nitrogen permeates the tire at a rate of 30-40% slower than oxygen?
* Inert gas: nitrogen disperses heat more quickly which results in cooler running tires?
* Improved tread life
* Reduced incidences of tire damage caused by excessive heat
* Non-flammable; reduced chance of flash point explosion
* Potential for better fuel mileage; if heat is restrained from building up the rolling resistance is reduced which can improve the vehicles fuel economy
* Reduced pressure build up: maintaining pressure reduces the deflection, which again prevents heat build-up and reduces the chance of separation
* Over-pressurization is as problematic as under-pressurization
* Increased tire pressure above the recommended inflation point can reduce the contact patch and thus reduce the maximum possible grip levels.
* Reduced moisture content introduced to the tire
* Nitrogen is dry because of it's inert qualities. Many of the causes of failure in a tire can be attributed to moist air being introduced internally to the tire.
* Moisture causes rusting, especially of the stem valve, increasing leakage. Additionally heating in tires is often caused by vaporization of the moisture

Who Uses Nitrogen Today?

* Aircraft tires
* Used for consistent pressure and minimized oxidation of rubber compounds
* NASCAR & Fomula 1
* For improved, consistent handling and reduced operating temperatures
* Heavy contruction equipment
* For consistent tire pressure and to prevent auto-ignition
* US Goverment / military equipment
* NASA - space shuttle
Ive put it and i dont go every month to see tire pressure, braking is really more effective and im in. Its not N2 its N.

* And its free at Costco

[vasantos]

Comments like that are horrible - please do not tell me you got accepted to Stanford, Cal, or UCLA.

...and PLEASE don't tell me you are going to be a doctor someday.

All this science stuff was covered in high school chemistry.

[vasantos]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

Uh, sorry, but we nitrogen isn't exactly at your local gas station. Isn't that stuff more flammable (like Hydrogen)? Our e90s are from Germany, but I don't want little Hindenburghs for tires.

...this is the quote I was talking about...